You're gunna love this...

This is a transcript of AM broadcast at 0800 AEST on local radio.
Ecstasy the drug of choice
AM - Wednesday, January 3, 2001 8:14
COMPERE: There's renewed concern among youth workers that party drugs like Ecstasy are taking over from alcohol as the drug of choice.
Police estimate up to 100,000 Sydney-siders took Ecstasy on New Year's Eve but as Luisa Saccotelli reports the cycle doesn't end there, with one prominent youth worker warning that Ecstasy is increasingly being spiked with heroin.
LUISA SACCOTELLI: The switch to Ecstasy from excessive alcohol consumption is now a confirmed trend. A hundred thousand young Sydney-siders saw the new year in on it, according to police estimates.
The Open Families' Les Twentyman says that should come as no surprise - alcohol simply doesn't fit in anymore, especially in the recreational drug use scene at rave parties.
LES TWENTYMAN: Well it's mainly because, you know, if you started drinking around about 7 or 8 o'clock at night - take new year's eve - well, you know, you'd be lucky to be still on your feet and awake at … when the clock struck midnight and we turned into another century. But by taking these types of substances then, you know, they’re assured of being able to participate in, you know, when new year comes about and also the fact that, you know, when the sun comes up.
The problem also is the fact that young people can't get transport and so - you know, transport doesn't start up until round about 5:30 - 6 am - and so that's another reason that some of them take these substances.
LUISA SACCOTELLI: Les Twentyman, the veteran youth worker who spent 25 years on the streets, says he now fears that dabbling in Ecstasy - the so called 'recreational' drug - is actually leading young people to heroin, with the tablets increasingly spiked.
LES TWENTYMAN: These are concoctions that are put together not by rocket scientists, they're put together in back-yard labs and so that's the big danger. One of the things that we're very concerned about is a lot of them are spiked with heroin and, as we've noted, Australia's probably the heroin death capital of the world with over a thousand people died of heroin, you know, in 1999. And we haven't got the figures for the season that's just gone - and this is one of the dangers that people who are involved in, you know, I guess at profiteering from heroin and they're starting to market the more, I guess, middle class areas because that's where the money is and so one of the avenues to that is to get in through the dance scene.
LUISA SACCOTELLI: How often are you hearing of people saying well, I meant to take Ecstasy but it was spiked with heroin?
LES TWENTYMAN: Oh, we're hearing it quite frequently. Our street workers - and Open Family have got workers not just here in Victoria but also we have a presence up in New South Wales and in Cabramatta - and, you know, people are saying this all the time and this is one of the dangers, I mean, just with Ecstasy - you don't know what you're getting.
The same with heroin because … and that's why, you know, we have such a terrible death rate. I mean I've buried 50 kids in the past eight years and it's getting very depressing. As I often say, I didn't become a youth worker a quarter of a century ago to become an undertaker at the turn of the century, and that's exactly what's happening.
LUISA SACCOTELLI: In Les Twentyman's experience at least the fear that alcohol and then the so-called soft drugs led onto harder drugs is now being borne out, with the targets often those who never expect to become the heroin purveyors' prey.
LES TWENTYMAN: Well that's, you see - it's more, as I said, an upper class, middle class drug and it's … I guess it's the youth, you know, that feeling infallible that it's not going to get them and sadly these drugs don't discriminate - they'll take anyone.
COMPERE: Open Family youth worker Les Twentyman with Luisa Saccotelli.
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And the Mission is the Mouse...

You know what I think, "You know" gets used a lot, you know?
Will these farkers ever get it right? I respect Les Twentymen for his work and in aiding the youth of Australia, the down-and-outs, etc but when he states that he is "increasingly" being told that pills contain heroin respect flys out the window. Why doesn't he have the farkers tested properly by a lab?
Ahhh fark 'em...you know?

Just out of interest, how many people who were 'safely' drinking at Cottesloe or Scarborough got arrested for disorderly conduct or disturbing the peace, or even street drinking?
It boggles the mind that they can focus entirely on Ecstacy (which is apparently heroin anyway...) and the various deaths and problems associated, but ignore the fact that there were probably heaps of people who were beaten/raped/killed/sodomised/whatever by some drunk knob who had nothing better to do on nye.
ok, I'll be quiet now.
Lee

i don't know where these idiots get their info from.. SMack in pills.. a load of shit.. why would it be, its more expensive. And the amount that could be obtained in a pill, taken orally would do absolutely nothing.. Read dancesafe.. their is many doctors stating this exact thing.. their is NO heroin in pills.. And if their was, it wouldn't do anything.. the lab pill testing at dancesafe has NEVER shown herion in pills, and thosands of pills are tested their. These are simply uninformed morons maiking comments about stuff they no nothing about... Im so sick of the media and their crap.

this was in today's Age. i can't find a link for it yet.

Calls to test drugs at dance parties
by Chloe Saltau
Social Policy Reporter
Australian dance clubs should consider implementing sophisticated drug-testing devices to establish whetehr party drugs such as ecstasy are laced with other damaging substances, according to Victoria's Youth Substance ABuse Service.
The call from the service's executive officer, Paul McDonald, came as outreac groups YSAS and Open Family said New Year's Eve had heralded a cultural shift away from excessive alcohol consumption towards the recreational drugs that have become entrenched in the rave party scene.
Open Family's Les Twentyman said that in Sydney alone an estimated 100,000 people were likely to have taken ecstasy on New Year's Eve.
However, a spokesman for the Metropolitan Ambulance Service said a series of violent assaults around Melbourne on Sunday night were characterised mostly by alcohol abuse and he was unaware of anyone being treated for the effects of ecstasy.
Police said a man was charged for selling ecstasy outsideone of Melbourne's biggest New Year's Eve parties, at the Docklands. They confiscated about 700 ecstasy tablets and quantities of amphetamines and marijuana.
(section of Les Twentyman quotes as above)
Mr Mcdonald said Australian dance clubs should consider following the lead of European night clubs by informing revellers about substances contained in the drugs they were taking.

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[This message has been edited by johnboy (edited 03 January 2001).]

oh here's the YSAS website:
http://www.ysas.org.au/
rang em and left my number for Paul Mcdonald.

How could they test pills at raves? Surely it wouldn't be feasible to test every single pill that comes into a rave...
considering the amount of pills that might be there ;-)

er i guess you are very new here...
i dont have time right now to explain in any great detail why this is important. do yourself a favour and check out www.dancesafe.org and specifically this page.
of course every pill isnt going to be tested, just as every driver is not pulled over and breath tested. but we have to at least try to screen some pills for dangerous adulterants and most importantly educate the people having their pills tested as to what those tests mean.
or you could just remain an ingorant fool and swallow anything that's given to you... your choice...
[This message has been edited by johnboy (edited 03 January 2001).]

please for your own sake people start to take the responsibility for your own drug use into your own hands, there are always organisations caring for the foolish, but if you take care of yourself and know the possible risks you stand less chance of injuring yourself.

ok, I get that. But what about the fact that there are pills going around which look the same but are nowhere near the same in content. Or the fact that even if a pill tests not-mdma people still take it, often just based on the fact that the person they bought it off is "reliable" or that other people have had a good experience on the same pills.
I've always thought that the people who take drugs recreationally on a semi/regular(?) basis, generally are informed. And thus, they aren't the ones you need to worry about.
anyway, I was joking....

are you joking or are you seriously wanting to know answers to these questions?

But what about the fact that there are pills going around which look the same but are nowhere near the same in content?

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this is why we are trying to set up testing at raves, so we can test the pills on the spot. that way we can try and help the person kow what is in the pill that they have in their hand and are planning on taking. we are tesing that exact pill, not just telling them that "mitsis are wicked". we perform a marquis reagent test and tell them what it means. this makes what the pill looks like irrelevant.

Or the fact that even if a pill tests not-mdma people still take it, often just based on the fact that the person they bought it off is "reliable" or that other people have had a good experience on the same pills.
I've always thought that the people who take drugs recreationally on a semi/regular(?) basis, generally are informed. And thus, they aren't the ones you need to worry about.

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er this seems to be very contradictory. on one hand you say people will take whatever they are given, then you say these same people are well informed.
people are very misinformed. no denying that. so many people who consider themselves experts will still tell you that their pills contain heroin. a simple marquis test will prove to them that this is a lie. this is why we are trying to test at raves, to show people, right there and then, the truth about their pills.

ok, in a far less defensive tone.
I've been looking for some stats about any drug (+alcohol) related arrests/emergency-room-situations/deaths over nye.
Does anyone know of any such incidents that occurred at their chosen event?
The reason I ask (hmmm....justification) is that I figure nye will be the time when most people will go "i'm going to have a big one" and go too far.

But what about the fact that there are pills going around which look the same but are nowhere near the same in content.

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they never really look the same. they generally look similar, as in a similar stamp and color but you need to take more notice of finer details...

How do I know what is in my pill?
Physical characteristics such as the colour, stamp and size of a pill give no indication of its contents. Ecstasy manufacturers often produce copycat batches of pills containing adulterants based on the previous, higher quality pills reputation. For this reason content will vary between batches, and well known stamps are also the most counterfeited.
A similar color and stamp may not ensure the contents are the same as they were in previous batches; this is why it is crucial to note finer details that may differentiate inferior copies. Take note of the color, stamp, diameter, thickness, shape, has speckles or discolouration, has a score (line) on the reverse side, has sharp or bevelled edges, and how hard or crumbly the pill is. The only way to be sure about what drugs that actually are in the pills is to chemically test them.

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Taken from the 'enlighten' harm reduction pamphlet
[This message has been edited by Cowboy Mac (edited 03 January 2001).]

before I respond, I am aware that yes this is a conceited thing to say... but its my personal opinion.
I basically classify them under 2 types of people. People who take drugs because they enjoy the drugs themselves, the lifestyle this tends to "perpetuate", the people, the whole lot. These are the people who test pills, read reports, find out ways to make the experience better, and read about all the issues, etc.
and then there are the people who see a rave with a cool flyer, buy a "pill" from some guy who doesn't have a last name and has a bad experience at the event (read that however you want), simply because they aren't informed or interested enough to be informed. In other words, people who only experiment with drugs.
Yeah, I know its a stereotype, and its over-generalising, but its the way I see it.

er and your point is? that is a broad stereotype but i admit there is a lot of truth to it... but what does that have to do with anything?
are you saying there is no point tabling raves and doing pilltesting and trying to educate this second group because we are wasting our time?
also are you really a journalist, as it says in your profile? i don't mind either way, i'm just curious.

if say the majority of the population (the people who don't 'do' drugs) is your problem, testing the people who are far more likely to already know their situation with safety is a bit futile. I'm not going to claim to know a better solution, but how expensive is it to test a small subset of the people at a rave, eg. 250, and could this money be spent in better ways?
uh no, definitely not a journalist. I take it you noticed my shite grammar then ;-)

it is very inexpensive to test pills with marquis reagent, as for a bottle that does 200 test retails for around $20 - $25 which could be donated or at cost around $10 a bottle, so price is not a concern for the value of the information that is gained by the tests.

um ok. so you picked a profession at random to put in yor profile? i woulda picked something more glamorous myself.
er if they dont "do" drugs then they are out of my concern. but if we are talking about occasional and first time users then lets break it down.
i am all for the educating of e users outside of raves, as i am myself one of those that takes e and has no interest in doof doof music.
the thing is, like it or not and i dont, that people are still more likely to take ecstasy in the club/party environment, especially when taking it for the first time. they are also more likely to approach a table offering pillltesting in an environment like a rave. down the local pub we would stand out like the proverbial dog balls.
as for spending money... um we are spending our own money on it at the moment. we are not funded by anyone. so it's not like we are wasting precious goverment resources.. wel not yet anyway
and at an large melbourne rave, of which there are many, there is going to be around 2000 people there. these events happen almost weekly. this can by no means be consider a "small subset" of people.
so you see we have thought long and hard about all this. it definitly isnt the best solution, but it is better than nothing, and nothing is what is happening right now.

this is the *real* problem with drugs. The people who want to use drugs for regular enjoyment(everyone can raise their hands at this point) are the ones who want to do them safely and would go out of there way to make everything good and safe - and yet they are still goddamn illegal.
it blows. a rather old and festering goat, in fact.

just wanted to try out my new signature, i think it suits this topic
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Damnant quod non intellegunt
[This message has been edited by Simba (edited 03 January 2001).]