Test Results: Marquis, Simons, Robadope vs. 2C-x phenethylamines
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phase_dancer
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Cheers for the posts. Good Work
How long were the 'integrations' observed for? Were some reactions observed for several minutes, or were all observations made over set time frames? This can be important as additional (colour affecting) reactions other than the indicator reaction can occur over a longer period.
When observing a colour change, it it's solely the reaction you're interested in. Whether or not the entire solution changes colour will of course relate to how integrated (as you put it) these substances are. This is largely determined by the solubility/ miscibility of the product/s in the reagent.
Could you outline approximately how much of the powder was used for each test. Was this measured or approximate? I'm interested in hearing of the cutoff levels for various drugs, where the concentration of the drug is below detectable limits of the reagents.
How long were the 'integrations' observed for? Were some reactions observed for several minutes, or were all observations made over set time frames? This can be important as additional (colour affecting) reactions other than the indicator reaction can occur over a longer period.
When observing a colour change, it it's solely the reaction you're interested in. Whether or not the entire solution changes colour will of course relate to how integrated (as you put it) these substances are. This is largely determined by the solubility/ miscibility of the product/s in the reagent.
Could you outline approximately how much of the powder was used for each test. Was this measured or approximate? I'm interested in hearing of the cutoff levels for various drugs, where the concentration of the drug is below detectable limits of the reagents.
phase_dancer
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Don't breathe those vapours!!
By adding common salt to Sulphuric acid ( Marquis is mostly concentrated sulphuric acid), hydrochloric acid gas is produced. If HCl is required in the lab, and if a tank is unavailable, this method - using non-iodised salt - is often employed.
H2SO4 + 2NaCl --> Na2SO4 + 2HCl
Also be very careful when using the amine reagents. Some reactions can produce very toxic products, particularly with Simons. It contains nitroprusside which essentially is a Fe3+ ion complex containing 4 CN (cyanide) moieties. Although tightly bound to the Fe3+ normally, these can be displaced during reactions at lower pH, where CN exists as a deadly gas.
Never allow the top of a marquis bottle to be accidentally swaped for the simons (phase 1) reagent. We may only be talking about small amounts here, but getting a nose full next time the bottle is opened would not be nice.
Sodium nitroferricyanide dihydrate or sodium nitroprusside
Cyanide type compounds may also be produced during reactions with Simons. Many of these toxic products will appear colourless. Robadope may also contain substances which can cause skin disease and may be very toxic if ingested [Speculation only, based on suspected ingredients]
Remember these are potentially dangerous, and very reactive reagents. Testing random substances is a bit like mixing chems together to see what happens. Don't get me wrong, the results provided are great 2C-R2D2 and my hat's off to those involved.
A bit of general H&S advice when testing foreign or random substances with test reagents;
Please ensure all chemical and test residues are washed away with adequate amounts of water. Use these reagents in well ventilated areas. If using them regularly you should also be well acquainted with emergency and first aid procedures and always have bicarb on hand to neutralise any spills.
If required, I can provide help with most if not all MSDS sheets for common user and forensics reagent ingredients.
Cowboy Mac
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nice work! Enlighten will be releasing a video library of reactions soon that will people can use to see substance reactions they may not normally encounter.
ld50 vs ssri
Bluelighter
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Very interesting results, thanks.
Here are results that are of a similar nature.
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mdma/mdma_faq_testing_kits.shtml
Your a lucky man to have all those substances.
Here are results that are of a similar nature.
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mdma/mdma_faq_testing_kits.shtml
Your a lucky man to have all those substances.
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Excellent work.
However is anyone at all concerned that the robadope tests do not seem to be doing what they should be. And the reaction seems very poor.
It seems the powder does turn purple - but as P_D said how much powder was required to notice this. (And I assume samples of these research chemicals were 100% pure - no street drug will be in this purity or concentration)
I personally have serious doubts robadope detects MDA/PMA when small amounts of scrapings are tested. (The instructions ask for an EIGHTH of a pill to be tested - who actually does that?)
If you are talking combo pills with MDMA the amount of the primary amine is likely to be low - and even less likely to be detected.
Taking the red mitsis as an example - whilst they clearly had no PMA, people were relying on robadope to "prove" PMA was not present. However now we see a whole host of primary amines where the reagent only turns the powder a purplish colour. And the reagent does nothing. And these powders were pure and concentrated!
Hello - the red mitisis were a "purplish" colour. What hope was there of properly testing this pill with this reagent?
Marquis and simons are clearly brilliant reagents for testing methamphetamine/MDMA. Robadope is imo a major concern.
However is anyone at all concerned that the robadope tests do not seem to be doing what they should be. And the reaction seems very poor.
It seems the powder does turn purple - but as P_D said how much powder was required to notice this. (And I assume samples of these research chemicals were 100% pure - no street drug will be in this purity or concentration)
I personally have serious doubts robadope detects MDA/PMA when small amounts of scrapings are tested. (The instructions ask for an EIGHTH of a pill to be tested - who actually does that?)
If you are talking combo pills with MDMA the amount of the primary amine is likely to be low - and even less likely to be detected.
Taking the red mitsis as an example - whilst they clearly had no PMA, people were relying on robadope to "prove" PMA was not present. However now we see a whole host of primary amines where the reagent only turns the powder a purplish colour. And the reagent does nothing. And these powders were pure and concentrated!
Hello - the red mitisis were a "purplish" colour. What hope was there of properly testing this pill with this reagent?
Marquis and simons are clearly brilliant reagents for testing methamphetamine/MDMA. Robadope is imo a major concern.
ld50 vs ssri
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Some very good points raised there Biscuit, I usually use 1/4 - 1/2 a pill when testing for those very reasons, sure it's a fair bit to use and some might say a waste, but it's much more accurate.
Im more then happy to use more contents of the pill for clearer reagent results.
Im more then happy to use more contents of the pill for clearer reagent results.
My friends brothers mate says thanks to everyone for their feedback and additional information, excellent work fellas
Here are some of his replies ...
> How long were the 'integrations' observed for?
With every test - at least 1 minute, but no longer than 3 minutes. Reactions typically occured straight away (into the first ~15 seconds), and then a slower, almost secondary reaction where for example it often fades to a darker color
> Could you outline approximately how much of the powder was used for each test.
About three to five pinheads worth, depending on the size of your pin.
> Don't breathe those vapours!!
Yeah, he figured that even if the vapours were harmless he still didn't want to breath them in so they were readily but properly disposed of.
> By adding common salt to Sulphuric acid ( Marquis is mostly concentrated sulphuric acid), hydrochloric acid gas is produced.
> Cyanide type compounds may also be produced during reactions with Simons.
Unfortunately, although there are some caution/warning signs on the reagent bottles and information pamphlets they never give any specific information like that. They should, and it's their responsibility to do so. The only danger they seem to highlight is that it could burn your skin, they dont seem to mention the creation of poisonous gases at all ...
> Enlighten will be releasing a video library of reactions soon
Videos would be the ultimate. The only trick would be ensuring the color hues looked correct on screen
> Your a lucky man to have all those substances.
Not me, i dont have anything other than bourbon - drugs are bad, mmkay? I'm just passing on messages from my friends brothers mate, he doesn't have the Internet, or something
> Here are results that are of a similar nature. (www.erowid.....)
Yep he compared his results with those and most were very similar/the same, but there were a couple that were a bit different.
> is anyone at all concerned that the robadope tests do not seem to be doing what they should be
Yes, the Robadope certainly is the least useful test. Marquis is the best, Simons is pretty good also. Robadope is good for a few things but not much.
> And I assume samples of these research chemicals were 100% pure
Correct, ~99% purity and in natural powder and crystaline forms. Dont ask me where he gets them from though, i have no idea
> It seems the powder does turn purple (with Robadope)
With all of the 2C-x's that were tested, yep. Not some of the others though
He is confident that the tests were carried out 100% correctly, including sample quantity and drop quantity
In regards to PMA he said he has has no idea how it reacts to any of the tests as he doesnt have any PMA and doesnt want any, but if the Robadope test says it can detect its presence (or lack of) then it probably can, just as it makes the purple turn powder if a 2C-x is present
The plot thickens.
PS. I seriously urge the moderators of this channel to post a sticky thread that elaborates on the dangers of reagent testing, simply for the safety of kit users. The pamphlets and warnings that come with the kits themselves are very inadequate.
Here are some of his replies ...
> How long were the 'integrations' observed for?
With every test - at least 1 minute, but no longer than 3 minutes. Reactions typically occured straight away (into the first ~15 seconds), and then a slower, almost secondary reaction where for example it often fades to a darker color
> Could you outline approximately how much of the powder was used for each test.
About three to five pinheads worth, depending on the size of your pin.
> Don't breathe those vapours!!
Yeah, he figured that even if the vapours were harmless he still didn't want to breath them in so they were readily but properly disposed of.
> By adding common salt to Sulphuric acid ( Marquis is mostly concentrated sulphuric acid), hydrochloric acid gas is produced.
> Cyanide type compounds may also be produced during reactions with Simons.
Unfortunately, although there are some caution/warning signs on the reagent bottles and information pamphlets they never give any specific information like that.
They should, and it's their responsibility to do so. The only danger they seem to highlight is that it could burn your skin, they dont seem to mention the creation of poisonous gases at all ...> Enlighten will be releasing a video library of reactions soon
Videos would be the ultimate. The only trick would be ensuring the color hues looked correct on screen
> Your a lucky man to have all those substances.
Not me, i dont have anything other than bourbon - drugs are bad, mmkay?
I'm just passing on messages from my friends brothers mate, he doesn't have the Internet, or something> Here are results that are of a similar nature. (www.erowid.....)
Yep he compared his results with those and most were very similar/the same, but there were a couple that were a bit different.
> is anyone at all concerned that the robadope tests do not seem to be doing what they should be
Yes, the Robadope certainly is the least useful test. Marquis is the best, Simons is pretty good also. Robadope is good for a few things but not much.
> And I assume samples of these research chemicals were 100% pure
Correct, ~99% purity and in natural powder and crystaline forms. Dont ask me where he gets them from though, i have no idea
> It seems the powder does turn purple (with Robadope)
With all of the 2C-x's that were tested, yep. Not some of the others though
He is confident that the tests were carried out 100% correctly, including sample quantity and drop quantity
In regards to PMA he said he has has no idea how it reacts to any of the tests as he doesnt have any PMA and doesnt want any, but if the Robadope test says it can detect its presence (or lack of) then it probably can, just as it makes the purple turn powder if a 2C-x is present
The plot thickens.
PS. I seriously urge the moderators of this channel to post a sticky thread that elaborates on the dangers of reagent testing, simply for the safety of kit users. The pamphlets and warnings that come with the kits themselves are very inadequate.
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Morninggloryseed
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Very important work.
Interestingly enough...
A batch of 2C-I (tested with GCMS to confirm identity/potency) was tested with marquis. The color produced was a beautiful forest/emerald green. Other batches of 2C-I that were not tested with GCMS, but were taste-tested and found to be of excellent quality...produced a similar dark-green reaction to what you state.
A batch of 2C-E (also tested in the same series with GCMS for positive ID) produced no reaction with marquis. Other batches not tested with GCMS (but taste-tested) produced similar results.
I am also pretty sure I tested some 2C-D (no lab analysis available) with marquis, and it did not react with marquis.
Interestingly enough...
A batch of 2C-I (tested with GCMS to confirm identity/potency) was tested with marquis. The color produced was a beautiful forest/emerald green. Other batches of 2C-I that were not tested with GCMS, but were taste-tested and found to be of excellent quality...produced a similar dark-green reaction to what you state.
A batch of 2C-E (also tested in the same series with GCMS for positive ID) produced no reaction with marquis. Other batches not tested with GCMS (but taste-tested) produced similar results.
I am also pretty sure I tested some 2C-D (no lab analysis available) with marquis, and it did not react with marquis.
Ekstasis-//7
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In regards to Biscuit's comments I would like to add that I have seen 3 different ecstacy pills react with robadope (out of about a dozen different pills I've tested) They all also reacted with the in the usual way for MDxx with Marquis, Mandelin, Mecke & Simons. So I would guess a MDMA + MDA combo. Myself or friends have taken multiple pills (of the 3 that reacted to robadope) in a night with no PMA type symptoms. One particular capsule (that reacted quite noticbley with robadope) I have taken a number of times and I'm pretty sure by the effects that it has some MDA in there.
This is what happened with the positive robadope reactions. The small scraping sank and pretty quickly you can see it turn an orange then red colour. One particular kind of capsule that I have taken a number of times the reaction was even more noticable. After the scaping sinking and going red pretty quickly I could see a reddish/brown colour bleeding out from the scraping... it didn't cover the whole patch of liquid but was quite noticable.
Although I aggree that Robadope is the mildest of the 5 EZ reagents I think that it is far from being a dud. I should also mention that I only used a small scraping for the robadope reactions.. a similar size to a scaping needed to get Simons to react.. maybe only slightly larger and definatly I never used 1/8 or even 1/10th of a pill.
ps. Is it likely Enlighten will still post video's of test kit reactions? I think this would be a great resource for people who are inexpereinced using a test kit.
This is what happened with the positive robadope reactions. The small scraping sank and pretty quickly you can see it turn an orange then red colour. One particular kind of capsule that I have taken a number of times the reaction was even more noticable. After the scaping sinking and going red pretty quickly I could see a reddish/brown colour bleeding out from the scraping... it didn't cover the whole patch of liquid but was quite noticable.
Although I aggree that Robadope is the mildest of the 5 EZ reagents I think that it is far from being a dud. I should also mention that I only used a small scraping for the robadope reactions.. a similar size to a scaping needed to get Simons to react.. maybe only slightly larger and definatly I never used 1/8 or even 1/10th of a pill.
ps. Is it likely Enlighten will still post video's of test kit reactions? I think this would be a great resource for people who are inexpereinced using a test kit.
phase_dancer
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The reactions were recorded. Perhaps JB, ruski or Mac might be able to give some indication as to whether the footage will be used or not.
Ekstasis-//7
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Damn... pitty 2C-R2D2 decided to remove the results to those reactions before I saw them . Oh well
Er... I'm trying to understand this disjointed phrase... Is it safe to say that Robadope reacts with a purple reaction to the 2C-x class (and maybe even the same reactions with DOx) class of chemicals? (Rather than a red to reddish brown as seen with MDA)
. Oh wellEr... I'm trying to understand this disjointed phrase... Is it safe to say that Robadope reacts with a purple reaction to the 2C-x class (and maybe even the same reactions with DOx) class of chemicals? (Rather than a red to reddish brown as seen with MDA)
I would also like some clarification here of robadope reactions as im about to purchase one to use with a mandelin marquis so i can distinguish potential tryptamines, 2c's pma mdma and mda...
If i use a large chunk of pill is a robadope largely accurate?
If i use a large chunk of pill is a robadope largely accurate?
phase_dancer
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He got upset after a mod deleted a pill info request of his, and so he decided that he would make everyone suffer by removing the lists
From this thread
2C-R2D2 wrote
bold added for emphasis; p_d
Considering these reaction results provided some excellent HM related information, to have removed them over such an issue is one of the most childish responses I've ever seen on this forum.
I was, and I still am, disgusted! If you have an issue with a mod, take it up with him/her, don't punish the whole community
Fin_heaven
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Yeah would love to see these results back up again, especially for the 2-cx chemical family as i have heard rumours from SWIM aboutit surfacing down down under.
fuck in heaven
fuck in heaven