No Pma In Red Mistubishi 2nd Death

check this out what are they playing @
http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,11181006%5E1702,00.html
A SECOND person has died after taking a tablet containing ecstasy and caffeine, known as a Red Mitsubishi.



Police today said the 28-year-old Adelaide man died in a motel yesterday.

His death followed that of a Sydney teenager who took the drug earlier this month.

At least 12 overdoses around Australia have been linked to the drug in recent weeks.

Contrary to previous reports, police no longer believe the tablets contained paramethoxy-amphetamine, or PMA – only ecstasy and caffeine.



Drug tablet linked to second death
By Lauren Ahwan
October 25, 2004

A SECOND person has died after taking a tablet containing ecstasy and caffeine, known as a Red Mitsubishi.



Police today said the 28-year-old Adelaide man died in a motel yesterday.

His death followed that of a Sydney teenager who took the drug earlier this month.

At least 12 overdoses around Australia have been linked to the drug in recent weeks.

Contrary to previous reports, police no longer believe the tablets contained paramethoxy-amphetamine, or PMA – only ecstasy and caffeine.










Detective Inspector Peter Giles said an ambulance was called to a North Adelaide motel at 12.20pm (CST) yesterday but it appeared the man had died a considerable time earlier.

"While there's nothing at this stage considered to be suspicious in connection with his death, it's believed a Mitsubishi tablet either caused or (was a) contributory cause to it," Det Insp Giles said.

"The type of drug (ecstasy) involved is a stimulant, as of course is caffeine, which in these instances was mixed together.

"Basically, it would be suspected that it would cause things like accelerated heart rate and so on and eventually lead to death."

Last week, 500 tablets marked with Mitsubishi or Calvin Klein insignias were found during a raid on a Perth home.

The haul's estimated street value was up to $25,000.

Det Insp Giles reiterated police concerns about the use of illicit drugs.

"The message that we really want to push ... is that, although from a police perspective we'd rather that no-one takes illicit drugs, if you do, you must always bear in mind that you can never be guaranteed as to the actual drug content of the tablets that you take," he said.

"Even dealing with what may seem to be the same tablet (as a person has consumed previously), the next batch may contain totally inconsistent chemicals to what you are used to dealing with.

"If you are going to place yourself in that situation, it would be advisable to take steps that other people are aware and are likely to be in a conscious state and able to take action if something goes wrong with the particular trip you end up taking."

A report on the man's death would be prepared for the state coroner.

AAP
[source] http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,11181006%5E1702,00.html

Its good that they are prepared to admit that the pills do not contain PMA after all the hype and confusion over past weeks. But they still warn of the dangers of a possibly strong dose or the combination of caffine making a still dangerous pill.

I wonder how many threads and posts these pills can lay claim to over the last little while, they've certainly been in the media a little

I thought the raid in Perth only seized 96 pills however.

A witness close to the deceased was present when they took the pills.
Kudos to SAPOL and particularly Forensics, who completed the analysis, for coming forward with this info so quickly- within 48 hours of the death. I'm still not aware of any information, either forensic or toxicological, coming out of NSW...

Last week, 500 tablets marked with Mitsubishi or Calvin Klein insignias were found during a raid on a Perth home.

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^^ thats. utter. garbage.

PERTH:
96 - last week (country)
198 - friday night (city)

All pills were a new deadly designer drug called red mitsubishi! Hoh0

Lastly, CAFFEINE??!!# How could i buzz like that off caffeine 8(

I'm from Adelaide, and from what the news said tonight the police found another one of these pills in the hotel(thats how they no what pills they were)

MDMA and caffeine a dangerous combo?? Does someone want to explain this to me? I know caffeine is a diuretic and probably shouldn't be taken with MDMA, but I didn't think it would be that dangerous. I mean, alcohol is also a diuretic.

mishy03 said:

I'm from Adelaide, and from what the news said tonight the police found another one of these pills in the hotel(thats how they no what pills they were)

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Who's to say he was not under the influence of other substances ?

hhc_king said:

"While there's nothing at this stage considered to be suspicious in connection with his death, it's believed a Mitsubishi tablet either caused or (was a) contributory cause to it," Det Insp Giles said.

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Contributory... yes, much like being born can contribute to driving a car (i'm sorry, in a very wierd mood).
Exceptionally worded to create a link to evoke fear and panic in the community.
Nice.

PEACE

I was about to say... probably just to put fear into the public. I've never heard of MDMA and caffeine being a "deadly" combo.

ld50 vs ssri said:

Who's to say he was not under the influence of other substances ?

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Um no one, I was actually answering someone else's question above....

It seems to be very common for pills to contain caffeine in addition to MDMA or other drugs. This can be seen in the FBI's Microgram journals and other online papers.
I find it hard to believe that ONLY "MDMA and Caffeine" caused this mans death. However Im not saying it may not be what happened. MDMA can be a dangerous drug and this is something many people in the drug using community seem to forget. It could be that this unfortunate death was due to relativly strong pills in comparison to what he was used to. If this is the case it should be a message to everyone that caution when choosing a dosage, even when dealing with what is most likely MDMA is needed.
Its a big relief to hear that the Red Mitsubishi's are not PMA or a related drug. This however is not reason not to test all your pills.

EDIT: What realy blows my mind is that they still appear to be producing more of them. I am still seeing what apear to be different batches around. (I make this assumption on the fact that they score is different and the colour and texture has changes about 3 times in the past month or so)

If the media only say MDMA and Caffeine, it works in conjunction with their biased scare campaigns 8( the newspapers need to start reporting on EVERYTHING that was in the subject's system at the time, and stop wording their reports in such a terrible way

keyword: LINKing

hhc_king: whats with your thread subject?

No Pma In Red Mistubishi 2nd Death

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..it should read; "LINKED 2nd Death."

C'mon man even news.com.au got that right! Sure these pills have attracted a load of attention but they are abundant throughout this country. Its really no suprise some drug fucked idiots die and they have a mitsi in their pocket - Everyone Has a Mitsi in their Pocket!

As far as different batches go im not convinced either. Most pills fade(colour), expand, crumble, etc with time!

alexkid: have you had pills fad and expand etc with time, I have never seen that happen, even with 3-4 year old pills.

Im quite positive it takes donkeys years for mdma to deteriorate and for pills to crumble, however ive have seen pills lose there colour but that is over a bloody long time.

I left a pill out overnight on a very warm night last weekend and it seemed to absorb water from the air and was twice its original size and crumbled to powder when touched by the morning. Guess its how you keep them.

A Reasonable Explanation

I have no trouble accepting that a moderate to high dose of caffeine mixed with a high dose of MDMA could lead to a heart attack.

Myocardial Infarction has been reported from caffeine alone. In combination with an anti-diuretic which causes body temperature & blood pressure increases (MDMA), it could easily lead to trouble IMO. It might only take a slight pre-disposition; family history, CV disease etc .... or even too much exertion on the dance floor.

Perhaps we need a caffeine reagent test? There are several for purines, but most either employ nasty chems or awkward procedures, or require viewing under a UV light with selectable wavelength.

Caffeine will produce no colour with Ehrlich reagent, but will produce a characteristic violet colour with iodoplatinate reagent.

Another reagent comprising of Ammonia soln, silver nitrate, potassium iodide and iodine is reported to give a brown/gray colour with caffeine

Not sure about cross reactions of either test with PEAs or AMPs.

Perhaps a good candidate might be 0.005% Fluorescein in 1.5 Molar Ammonium hydroxide solution (common ammonia). The colour produced reportedly fluoresces at both long range and short range UV, meaning it should be visible under a regular black light tube. The obvious problem is that fluorescein may also produce fluorescence with amines like MDMA, so tests would need to be done before it could be hailed as a specific caffeine indicator.

Im quite positive it takes donkeys years for mdma to deteriorate and for pills to crumble

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MDMA does not break down. I have a friend who has found a pill at least 5 years old and woked an absolute charm.

Regardless of what the media is saying happened or what was in these pills, it is still a fact people have died taking them. YES, other drugs or substances may have been involved, but how many of us take pills just on their own?

Still a reason to be cautious yes?

I'm interested about there being 2 deaths in one month from what could be the same pill... Random chance?

The news report said tonight that the pills in question are 'slow release', so he might have had more and more thinking that they weren't working. Now I'm not saying the reports are correct, they've been incorrect a number of times - like when Allan O'reilly died in Adelaide back in 2001 - but thats what they said anyway. I don't think they would know that the tablets were 'slow release' when they haven't even done an exam on them yet - or a post mortem, but there you go.