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Absolutely, positively disgusted with the Governments approach to e.

Orange Juice

Bluelighter
Joined
Mar 1, 2000
Messages
50
I have been navigating my way around Bluelight, taking in a lot of what other people have to say from across our country and around the world. Personally I am reaching breaking point with the lack of quality attention that is devoted to this subject by our own government.
I have always been an avid researcher of the political environment, which is why I feel I have reached a higher level of disappointment.
Statistics show that when MDMA initially became popular as a recreational drug (early 1970's), 30,000 individual doses were ingested across the entire USA. 10 years later, the same number of doses were being swallowed by people in one week. 5 years further on, and 30,000 doses were ingested by individuals per city/per week across the USA. I imagine those numbers have grown substantially since that date, 15 years on.
I don't have exact figures on our Australian national consumption, however I would assume that they would follow the same trend.
I am a little bit of a conspiracy theorist, and in saying this I feel that the governments involvement with illegal drugs stretchs further than what the public eye can see. Thus follows a number of issues;
Firstly, and getting back to the subject at hand. MDMA, as ecstasy, has been popular as a recreational drug for well over 20 years now. The governments only approach on a global level has been prohibition. Why? I would be happy to agree with every fact and figure the govt wish to throw at us, providing they can produce some real reason and subsequent evidence to justify their 'war on drugs'.
In Sydney, NYE 2000; (heresay) 'The number of casualties across our city on New Years Eve were minimal in comparison to past years, due to the evergrowing use of the popular drug ecstacy'.
Are the bureaucrats not listening to these cries? We as a majority are responsible people. For every majority, there must be a minority, and it is unfortunate that this is the case, however the number of alcohol related deaths across our nation far exceeds not only the number of e related deaths, but recreational drug related deaths combined.
We must educate our fellow person on the risks and rewards of MDMA. It should be clear by now that prohibition is NOT the answer, and I feel that if our political leaders are going to continue to neglect their obligation to the people, then we should make a stand ourselves.
To quote a certain rights-activist, 'I have a dream'...
My dream involves the legalisation of MDMA for recreational purposes. With legalisation comes standardisation of the drug, taxation (the governments favourite buzz word) and the reduction or eradication of the underground and black market prescence. We are along way from reaching this point as epidemiological studies must be completed to determine LD50 (toxicity) levels when used on humans. I personally believe that this data already exists, and the REAL reason for prohibition of MDMA is public perception, thus we must please the voter.
The media is having an absolute frenzy on this topic at our expense. We are all educated, intelligent and pro-active people, so lets do something about it. We have a bulletin board here which provides us with a fantastic tool for communication and education, however we must take it to the next level. As the media continues to rape the drug culture, the public perception worsens and the prohibition tightens. I have seen enough more destruction actioned by the media and government on this issue than any other relevant party.
Please look at it from this perspective. If you jump in your car and speed, you have a higher chance of causing damage, or killing someone (including yourself). The irony is that we continue to import and locally produce higher performance motor vehicles, capable of higher speeds. The government does not regulate the automotive market by governing the speeds capable by cars today. Why? The Australian government factors speeding fines into their annual revenue which makes up our National Budget. If the government REALLY didn't want you to speed, they would simply prohibit speeding by removing all possible modes of speeding.
When studied, it is quite simple. The reason for prohibition is not because of the toxicity of the drug MDMA, but because our governments are unable to financially tap into our underground market (although personally I think they have a prescence).
In 1999, our government debated the legalisation of Marijuana. They had researched to what extent Australians smoke pot, and found that they were missing out on a huge potential tax!
My offer to you is this. I am willing to become more pro-active on this issue. I am willing to contest our government. If you are too, then post your interest on this thread. It may never amount to anything, but it would be nice to see how many people feel the same way, and how many people disagree.
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IMPORTANT NOTICE: CONSUMPTION OF e! CAUSES EXCESS SKINNY DIPPING WITH FRIENDS.
"Come in, it's really warm"!
Keep Rolling.
 
Orange juice: I really admire your stance on this issue, and I think that almost every bluelighter would have a similar view on the matter.
Our hands are tied really. I think it will be interesting to see if the methamphetamine act/law passes (where any drug content on the internet will be illegal and risk up to 5 years in prison I believe) If this passes, it will add at least another 5 years to the whole legalisation process.
But MDMA won't be legalised in our time I believe. Marijuana hasn't even been lagalised yet. Until definate proof on long tern effects come into the limelight, there is just far too big a risk for the government. Think of asbestos. Think of Thalidamite(sp). They don't want to take those risks. If I had brain damage when I was 45 because I took ecstasy when it was legal, I would sue the pants off the government, and win. So would thousands of other ravers.
I'm not trying to be pesimistic at all. Just realistic. I will support 'the cause' in any way I can, which could involve letters, protests etc. I am showing my absolute support here and if I can help in any way at all, let me know. Good luck!! - (*hORSE*)
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"There are no differences but differences of degree between different degrees of difference and no difference."
- William James, American philosopher
 
Hey OJ
first off, nice piece
smile.gif
It's good to see an intelligent piece of dialog on a board which policy makers may soon outlaw, supposedly because of it's encouragement illicit drugs.
Personally I think it is pieces like this which they are more threatened by, intelligent, factual information which refutes the claims of the media and goverment about the "evil" drugs which are killing our youth.
The fact is that we're not dying, most are not even majorly affected by the occassional use of recreational drugs, and as we are quickly finding out, most "dangerous substances" are in fact, safer to use than pushing your Datsun 120Y over the 60km/h speed limit
smile.gif

What is becoming clear is that the information we have learnt, and are learning about these substances, from places like this board, is not available to the public, most see reports on ecstasy like the one from 60 mins a few weeks ago (which we have all established to be a complete crock of one sided shit), and so, how can we expect them to have an unbiased view of the issue?
My only concern is that even if both sides of the arguement were put to the public, would their view change? But let's give ppl some credit (just a lil
smile.gif
), I think if everybody did have both sides of the story, they would make much better, more informed decisions about this subject, hey there might even be some changes to laws & policies *shock*.
At the very least your parents won't think you are going to die or have major brain damage because you had a pill.
So what can we do? We have to start from the bottom, ppl like the ppl on this board have to start re-educating ppl about their views on drugs, actively support further research, etc etc. As far as I see it we're not gonna change the world on our own, but ppls opinions can be changed, and if enuff ppl change their opinions, who knows.....
 
Pardon me, just passing through. The weather is so much better on this side of the world, it does me good to get out of Europe every now and again.
Orange Juice:
Nice post, well put. It reminds me very much of a late night/early morning rant and rave I came up with a couple of weeks ago, although I cunningly put it in the chill out room where no-one would find it.
Have a read if you haven't already: www.bluelight.ru/ubb/Forum7/HTML/000246.html
Except I forgot to include the conspiracy theory about alcohol tax revenues dropping significantly and the power of breweries in relation to newspaper advertising revenues but you can probably work that out yourself.
 
My esteemed collegue Mr. Horse is correct, MDMA will not be legalized within a generation or two. Despite the problems that non-governmental mediation of drug trafficking and use cause, and despite the benefits the government could glean finacially from such controls, it wont happen.
The "War on Drugs" (i think William Burroughs coined the term) is not waged by governments, but the media. The media in this country (along with just about every vaguely westernized country) is controlled tightly by the baby boomer generation. Every editor or newspaper owner or current affairs style show producer in this country is 40-60 years old. Consequently the views on drugs in the media is based on the perception of a bunch of manipulative, conservative aging upper-middle class twats.
This base of prejudice is extended by the needs to fuel the required hysteria among the middle-classes (Pauline Hansons "middle-Australia") that create the rating for their shows, or the sale of their newspapers.
In the 50s and earlier, there was no public opinion on drugs. Those that knew about it (users or the people they dealt with) considered it either a pastime (pot) or an illness (heroin).
It is no coincidence that along with the rise the Global media network, comes the "War on Drugs".
The west has had no wars this generation, no bogeyman from across the sea. Nowadays the thing that stupefys the masses, is the bogeyman in our backyard, threatening to take our kids.
(watch ACA for a week, and see how many times Mike Munro says "our kids", appealing DIRECTLY to middleclass parents)
Governments are bullied children to these concerns. Money, Money, Money. There is a good chance that little Johnny knows full well that shooting galleries for smackheads will save lives, that legalizing pot will mean a major windfall for the government. But Little Johnny isnt going to go down in history as the PM that took the edge off the governments hardline "just say no" approach. He`d be villifyed for the rest of his life, by the his peers and the media, and therefor the public. Pollies dont exist without public opinion, and Johnny cant go against it.
We should feel lucky that, at least here, we have Triple J, a youth oriented station, pro-legalization, non-profit, therefor caring more for the safty of its demographic than for its ratings. In America, they have the American Christian Right.
OK, so what do we do? Good question.
For starters, Educate your children. Tell them that getting stoned is safer than getting drunk. Tell them about the dangers of sharing needles and the importance of controlled drug use. Teach them the critical difference between USE AND ABUSE. If they know that, they will be OK, no matter what the laws are, or what public/media opinion is. They will be alright.
Now, when you and many of your peers and friends have done this, there will be a consensus among the population that will spread. A slow and steady education.
Then, when the old dinosaurs in the Media are dead or retired, and WE control the media (Journalism students, im talking to you), then, and ONLY then, can we START the process of changing the legislation. I dont expect to take legal MDMA in this country B4 im 60. Sorry Orange Juice.
Legislation follows social change, it dosent create it.
How many people can tell their parents they take ecstacy? When this number increases significantly, we can get the laws changed.
Of course by then, we will be the parents.
Lastly, post on Bluelight. Write to 60 minutes and ACA and tell them how bad and one-sided their stories are. Eat pills and have a good time, then tell people about it. Help, with every small step, to create a consiousness of acceptable, safe drug use in a wider, enlightened community. One hopes that in a few short decades, i will be able to put anything i fucking well like in my body, and the only person I have to answer to is the owner of said body.
Zero
 
Well said everyone. I'm back just a couple of hours after posting the beginning of this thread and am yet again reassured of the quality of people that we are amongst here at this board.
Mr. Horse - Your point is extremely valid in that we are not completely sure of the long-term side effects of MDMA. However, since as it's inception was in 1913, I feel that we have been given ample time to research the long term side effects.
Zero - I stand by your statement in that it is doubtful that we will legalise the use of MDMA in this generation, or even next. However, I would like to go down in history as the generation who commenced the education of a species. Let's kick off so that our kids can follow. Who knows, as you say it is the baby-boomer gen who are fuelling the hatred for our pastime, and once they die off, we will be all that's left. It might happen sooner rather than later.
Keep posting, I think this could be a really good thread.
Oh, could somebody please fill me in with some more info on this bill to outlaw internet drug content?
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IMPORTANT NOTICE: CONSUMPTION OF e! CAUSES EXCESS SKINNY DIPPING WITH FRIENDS.
"Come in, it's really warm"!
Keep Rolling.
[This message has been edited by Orange Juice (edited 28 May 2000).]
 
OJ... my respect goes out to you fantastically well worded post and brilliantly handled subject matter...
I think that there are a few things to bear in mind about the whole concept of bringing the subject of E and E-culture. It would be absolutely fantastic to have something like a debate on TV or similar. Have the various parties be placed on opposing sides and have representation for those who have a strong opinion on the subject:
[*]government
[*]rave and dance culture
[*]religious groups
[*]scientific community
[*]others....
This way all the viewpoints can be addressed and argued in an organized and proper fashion. I think most people would agree with this but there is still one large problem with this...
Ecstacy is a prohibited substance therefore possession and consumption are illegal and punishable by both hefty fines and jail sentences. All the people that would be the main people that
a) have the knowledge of the drug
b) know the culture and it's ways
are misrepresented in society anyways. Therefore it is highly likely that we would end up with one of the above police matters.
There was a case in the UK (from one of the online magazines MixMag I believe) where a 40 year old account from the higher tax bracket was searched and found to have 10-15 pills of ecstacy on his person. In court it was decided that he was an upstanding man with only vechile offences on his record and only required a 400 pound fine and a small amount of community service.
In the same area a youth of 19-24 age was illegally searched when approaching a club he was found to have 2 and a half pills on his person. He had a totally clean record, not event traffic offences ... he was charged with possession with intent to sell and supply and ended up going down for 1.5 to 3 years (i am not sure on this time but it was definitely at least 1.5 yrs).
From the two cases above, even with them being based in a different country it can be seen that we would have alot of trouble getting people to actually recognize our views.
I would love to see some movement on the topic but I cannot see it happening in the near future... we are still viewed as uneducated drug addicts and it is awfully hard to convince someone of something with that label hanging over our heads... so if anyone knows a powerful, highly educated and motivated ecstacy using 16-28 year old... please tell them to step forward and support our cause.
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The Strange Guy with Strange Hair
 
Public access television could be a good start - a bluelight documentary on channel 31, combined with a flyer drop to let everyone know its on (cos noone actually watches ch31 hehehe).
Any film students here?
 
Sproing - Good post and I agree with a lot of what you have said until the end. What we have to realise is that we are a race. Yes, everybody at Bluelight and even those who don't know about it, but e-users in general are a race in themselves. We will never succeed as one person, so I think we could forget attempting to nominate an influential 16-28yo to speak out for us, as this person would be sacrificing their social status in doing so.
The best way to go about this is to gather as a team, and have strength in numbers. Community TV sounds good. Perhaps we could fight the media with their own tool, maybe a publication of some description. What we are forgetting Sproing is that although the possession and consumption of e is illegal, we are free to say that we have done it. If we were to debate as mentioned above, don't be wasted during it, and don't have any pills on you.
A lot of us are professionals on reasonable incomes, which is why we can afford this lifestyle in the first place, so I feel that if we believe in being pro-active, we would summon our resources and develop the strategies and appropriate tools to accomplish our goal here.
------------------
IMPORTANT NOTICE: CONSUMPTION OF e! CAUSES EXCESS SKINNY DIPPING WITH FRIENDS.
"Come in, it's really warm"!
Keep Rolling.
 
Just a lil flash that came to me from reading OJ's last response. How about a newsletter or small magazine of some sort which we can distribute which has articles on the facts of ecstasy (unlike the "facts" sheets the cops distribute), as well as articles about harm reduction, pill testing, pre and post loading along with statistics etc. to back up any claims we make. I'd love to research an article comparing the risks of taking ecstasy against the risks of taking other drugs (esp. tobacco & alcohol, it's just to easy
smile.gif
)This could be distributed at places like record stores, bong shops and basically anywhere the ppl in our scene frequent (I know I'm being stereotypical, but any other suggestions u can think of). It may not change many attitudes out there, but at the very least we can get our opinions out there. I think thats what we're screaming for, a voice for our opinions, and the more ppl we can get it to, the better.
Ultimately I'd love to be able to put out a weekly newsletter which also included the latest pills along with what they contain and how much they contain, but thats a very illegal dream at this point in time. It'd be great to just "look up" the pill ur being offered and find out exactly whats in it, pipe dream i guess
bit OT that last bit, but shit happens
smile.gif
 
I think a good test case for the government is to see the harm/benefits arising out of the Dutch governments stance on MDMA, pot etc.
(other than theres a big reason y Holland is probably the biggest exporter of illegal MDMA, and hopefully they won't focus on that)
I think the first step is to get MDMA off the schedule I drug list. I mean it shares its position with heroin.
The dutch, swiss and prob a few other european countries have placed MDMA alongside marihuana, perhaps if that could at least be achieved.
Test case for long term use of designer drugs and hallucinogens, Dr Shulgin i presume. pushing 70, i think still going strong and has ingested more drugs than i've had hot dinners.
 
There was a similar thread, Think For Me, started by Elliven earlier which might be of interest. A much enganged diatribe, OJ, but nontheless a good post!
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"Let us hope that the whores of evil no longer loiter on the doorsteps of your path"-Jack Kerouac
 
Great piece OJ!
I've posted my thoughts on this some time ago and believe me, every one here feels the same way u do.
Our biggest enemy in this so called war my friends are the brewery companies. Ran into an old school friend other night who works at TOOHEYS for a couple of years and told me the shit we all knew was happening but never really had been told to the 'people'.
These companies around the world not just here have caught on to this XTC epidemic and tried to eradicate it in every possible manner. Fact is its killing would be alcohol sales for companies and tax revenue for govt. So Mr.Tooheys says 'can u suck my cock Mr.Howard?', and johnny says, 'no worries, so long u bang my little bald ass'.
You scratch my back and i'll scratch yours.
Simple.
We ain't going to see MDMA legalised for many years to come because of this. These companies are big and powerful just like the cigarette companies, and no one is really going to mess with them cause they have the CASH to walk over anyone, even Johnny Howards of this world. Companies and industries or sectors this big don't listen to governments, the governments listen to them.
The pot legalisation is only on the fact that there is a massive untapped market for the govt.,nothing else.
No matter how many people die drinking alcohol or smoking, it's been around for YEARS, 'i was first on the block, so u can fuck off'. MDMA was invented some 80yrs ago but only consumed on a large basis in the last 15-20yrs, and consequences of our actions are NOT REALLY understood fully yet.
So until MDMA is fully legalisd, we'll keep on reading crappy newspaper articles and watching dodgy current affair programs relating to the so called killer drug ecstasy.
Very unfortunate bunch we are.
"Give that man a CU"...
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My life is simply
Defined by every
Magnificent experience
Acquired by E.
 
OMG
So many great ideas getting thrown around here, lets make a list;
-Channel 31 show(s) ...with flyer
smile.gif

-Letters (60 mins, politicians, editor, parents...)
-Protests
-Newsletter or small magazine (this could be good but i couldn't see us makign a whole magazine on e,,,maybe a magazine on the scene in general)
-*FACT* sheets. Not pro/anti drug just fact
We need to do something,,,who else is gonna stand up and say "hey ecstasy is misunderstood, lets get it legalised". We wont get it legalised (only being real people) but we can make it more acceptable, like marijuana is.
OJ,,,you said you didn't think we should sacrifice anyone, i think we should. Sacrifice me I don't care who's toes i step on
smile.gif
I don't have alot of knowledge but i'd be proud to stand up for what i believe in.
We need to educate people not to fear what they don't understand.
Lets get pro-active, stand up for what we believe in. Lets not just talk about doing something lets do it.
Acid_Reign
 
Ok, I used to work for Channel 31 in Sydney, and basically, I wanted to do what you're suggesting, I wanted to have a weekly spot focusing on drug education. There were a few problems.
1) we used to film on Friday night (go fucken figure!) so it was hard to get any sort of guest to come on.
2)People actually used to watch, and there wad this old guy who would ring upand complain about EVERYTHING, so my producer was sort of worried about viewer reactions, ie we sort of couldnt be seen to be promoting drugs in any way, and in the eyes of the general public, anything saying "HEY, there's a SAFE way of doing drugs" would of course be considered promotion...
3)Something about 'bias views' etc.
Basically it was a no win situation. No-oe would support me, not because they didn't want to but because their hands were tied.
I still have contacts there though, if anyone was interested in putting something together, I could see if they'd run it. I'd probably be interested in helping out, I can use uni equipment etc..but I'm based in Bathurst so location is sligtly inconvenient.
As for the Triple J thing :
http://www.caa.org.au/parliament/
umm..I was actually looking for their page which had drug info etc etc on it. I think it's gone. I don't really have time to look for it, I'm late for a lecture - I found this link instead.
BUT!!! I was searching the site a while ago and found some pretty scary stuff in regards to drug eductaion lah di blah. Alot of Anti-Drug propaganda that I don't necessarily equate with JJJ. I was quite surprised it was there...
please excuse my lack of form in this reply. I'm rushing - late for a lecture, but I wanted to reply (felt I needed to jusitfy my shitty reply because of all the other excellent ones here)...I'll try to reply in more detail my views on this matter later on tonight
smile.gif

Cheers,
mona.
 
Wow, what a thread...
This topic has been foremost on my mind for some time.
However, something that i find strange is the number of people who want to promote drug awareness to the blinded majority, but haven't even told their parents that they take ecstacy. I am not pointing my finger at anyone in particular, but if u can't talk to your closest relatives about it, then u have no chance when it comes to talking to the rest of the world.
Personally, I inform my parents either before, or immeadiately after taking any new substance, from alcohol at the age of 14, through to ecstacy at the age of 20. Drugs like alcohol, acid, and mushies, my parents gave me heaps of info on, while recently, the tables were turned when i tried speed and ecstacy. Don't worry, i do realise that some people have different parents...
Guess what i am trying to say is, we should *all* be satisfied that we have done our best to educate at least a decent portion of the people we know before some of us get up and start preaching to the entire population. It would make it soooo much easier to have a small army of 35+year olds who realise what we have to say is valid...
 
"Hey dad, there's something i've been wanting to tell u for the past 7 years"...
.."What's that son"....
....."I've been taking ecstasy, u know the drug"...
......*WHACKKK*...as i hit the deck fast...
wink.gif
 
I just reckon that if we can't tell peeps we know, that we take drugs, we r probably kidding ourselves if we think we can tell everyone else...
[This message has been edited by Drave (edited 29 May 2000).]
 
i can see it now: The Ecstasy Lobby Group. Yellow doves on the letterhead? or will they be smileee's? decisions, decisions.
 
I'd love to be able to tell my mum, but i think she's only just gotten over the whole school-years LSD thing.
The fact that she works in psychiatry doesn't help either- whenenver I see her there's another story about some crazy guy who shot-up e, or who fucked up on something or other. She only ever sees the very very worst side of every drug, which is her job, so it doesn't matter what I say.
I do agree with all that's been said, though, and despite the ramifications, I'd be happy and proud to be involved in something for the cause.
 
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