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Should the asylum kids be kept in detention centre's?

haste

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Asylum kids lose appeal
By Sophie Morris
April 30, 2004

THE activist Family Court has been delivered a stern judicial rebuff, with the full bench of the High Court unanimously overruling its decision to free five asylum-seeker children.

A Family Court ruling last August led to the release of the children from South Australia's Baxter detention centre.

But the seven judges of the High Court's full bench ruled yesterday that the Family Court did not have the authority to release children from immigration detention or make orders about their welfare.

"The Family Court has no jurisdiction to make such an order. Nor has it any jurisdiction to make orders concerning the welfare of children who are in immigration detention," Chief Justice Murray Gleeson and Justice Michael McHugh wrote in a joint judgment.

The siblings, aged 6 to 15, remained with their carers in Adelaide yesterday as their lawyers rushed to seek an injunction in the Federal Court to prevent the Immigration Minister detaining them. The hearing on the injunction continues today.

Acting Immigration Minister Gary Hardgrave welcomed the High Court's decision but said the Government would not immediately put the children back in detention.

"We have a range of options open for consideration about the family at the centre of this, but won't make any on-the-run pronouncements," Mr Hardgrave said.

"The current arrangements for the children are going to remain in place for the time being."

Attorney-General Philip Ruddock, who as immigration minister accused the Family Court last August of meddling in policy and initiated the appeal against its decision, said yesterday's ruling affirmed that the Family Law Act did not override migration law.

"The system has worked as intended," he said.

The children's lawyer, Jeremy Moore, said the High Court decision was disappointing but was not the final word on detaining asylum-seeker children, as the High Court would soon rule on the legality of detaining the four Sakhi children from Afghanistan.

Yesterday's decision was about whether the Family Court had overstepped its jurisdiction, but comments in Justice Michael Kirby's judgment also touched on the legality of detention, observing that clear-cut laws allowed the Government to detain unlawful non-citizens.

"Mandatory detention of unlawful non-citizens who are children is the will of the parliament of Australia ... those laws must be obeyed and enforced, whenever they are valid and their obligations are clear and applicable," Justice Kirby wrote.

He found it "strongly arguable" that Australia had breached its obligations under the UN Conventions on the Rights of the Child but said the court could not invoke international law to override Australian law.

The judgment noted that detention under the Migration Act applied equally to adults and children.

The children and their mother, who is in immigration detention with her seven-month-old baby in an Adelaide hotel, have exhausted legal appeals on their migration applications and could be deported.

The father, in Baxter detention centre, still has a case pending.

Labor immigration spokesman Stephen Smith urged the Government not to return the children to detention.

The Australian Democrats said the High Court decision gave the Immigration Department the right to "continue institutionalised child abuse".

Dianne Hiles, a spokeswoman for Children Out of Detention, called on the Government to change the law so the Family Court could make decisions about 81 asylum-seeker children detained in Australia and 70 children held on Nauru.


I'm wondering what everyone's opinion's are on this situation, should they be held in detention centre's?
 
phillip ruddock and amanda vanstone and also old johnny

hmm.. im not going to comment on the article and angrily point fingers at the numerous parties. However, i'm strongly against our asylum seeker policies. Nauru is the biggest disaster since the Menzies Hotel bombing and the other detention centre's aren't much better.

Detaining children in those conditions is especially in-humane. In 50 years when the next al-qaeda takes over australia and we escape to a similar detention centre in France, we may realise how nasty it is.

Just because they are foreigners doesnt mean they aren't fucken human. I say pour more money into educating these people, teaching them english, encouraging them not too join racial gangs and then let them productively add to our economy in society.

I'm not sure of the figure, but it costs a shitload to detain a person. A lot more than educating them and then having them add to GDP and earn their own keep. We have a big country, there is room for everyone, train them as doctors and nurses and inject them into the struggling health system.

:)
 
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It's disgusting. I don't agree with detention full stop but the reasoning of the laughable libs is that these asylum seekers broke the law. Well perhaps so, but if my dad commits a crime should I go to jail with him?
As a dad, what do you think haste? or dq? or other parents here?
 
i would think that it would be worse for them to be seperated from their parents? granted, if there are several siblings from the one family and they were able to stay together outside the cnetre, perhaps that would be better, but i would think the children would be terrified to be taken from their family.

my ex used to live in port headland and he said that the detention centre there was better equipped that the vast majority of the town. they had new buildings which were air conditioned, great playground equiptment and educational classes. he said that many people in the town would have gladly swapped accomodation with them.

i think there needs to be a more effecient way of processing these asylum seekers, i think it's atrocious that people can spend years in detention waiting for their claim to be processed. but i also don't see that letting them out on the streets to fend for themselves would do us any favours...
i really don't know what the answer is
:\
 
Children shouldn't have to live through that sort of stuff, it's just not right. Build a center for children, where they can be tought basic education in a friendlier environment.

No need for war camps I say!
 
Re: phillip ruddock and amanda vanstone and also old johnny

diegoblunt said:


Just because they are foreigners doesnt mean they aren't fucken human. I say pour more money into educating these people, teaching them english, encouraging them not too join racial gangs and then let them productively add to our economy in society.

Couldn't agree more. I'm sick of hearing people say " blow em out of the water":X let alone worrying about what happens to them once they reach our shores. I know it's a complex issue resolving the exact origins of asylum seekers, but there is no way i can condone the detention of children. Whenever i think of our treatment of asylum seekers, it's one of the few times i feel ashamed to be Australian. :(
 
i'm a little worried that my earlier comments conveyed the feeeling that i think it's ok to put asylum seekers in detention centres. i don't think it's right, but what i was trying to say was that i don't think the conditions are neccesarily that bad.

i don't think they should be detained for getting to this country but what is usually the only means available to them, but i am unsure of what to do with them once they get here. i'm interested in other people's opinions; do you propose the government support them and find housing and such for them until they can find jobs? should we provide education (such as language classes) to increase their chances of finding work?

i don't agree with detention, but i don't have a solution either...
 
Kids being detained does concern me, both on the level of being a father and as human being. Barney you bring up a good point. I'm not going to argue whether its right or wrong to detain refugee's, I'm sure you've all heard the arguments before.

Whats concerning is the the truelly innocent victims in all this - young kids who know no better, their only driving force and agenda being, to live life. As stated previoulsy, is it fair to punish the children for so called crimes that their parents have committed - seems hardly a reason to truamatise young minds. They've gone through hell as it is, must we also cage them like animals during their time here.

They are victims of the adult world, don't subject them to our own stupidity - keep them in a safe and stabilised enviroment while the adults sort themselves out.

Can someone tell me the threat they have posed to our society while on the "outside" that would warrant their detention again? - don't take their innocence away, there's plenty of time later on in life for that to happen.

This is a humanitarian issue - I know we have our own problems here in Australia that our resources can go to, but it doesn't mean we should start acting like animals.
 
leave the children with their families... but drastically improve the facilities.
 
It's bullshit!

For children who have done nothing wrong, they are being treated like criminals. They are breaching human rights, which is intolerable, particularly in a supposedly democratic and fair society like Australia. The cost of detaining these people is soemthing like $40 000 a day (that may not be correct, but I'm pretty sure I read that the other day). At any rate, that money could be better spent on givin gthis keds a somewhat decent education, or decent facilities. When kids are suffering from severe depression and trying to kill themselves, something is seriously wrong. Why should they be punished for having a shitty life in a shitty country where they dtried to escape? Or, more correctly, where their parents tried to help them escape? I'm against the detention of asylum seekers, but wont go into that here, but I don't think it's too naive to think that at least the kids could be treated with a modicum of decency?

Everything that I have read and heard makes me think that the kids should be taken out of there immediately. While it would be difficult for kids to be seperated from their parents, what about those who didn't come with their parents? And what will be more damaging, staying in detention or being away from your parents? Perhaps if the parents would be allowed to visit the kids often, that would ease that burdern.

It makes you wonder what they're going to turn out like, doesn't it? And where Australia's morality has gone. Eh.
 
Is it just me, or does "The Pacific Solution" have a somewhat creepy ring to it when you say it aloud?

Mandatory detention for families is not a good idea. The government ostensibly maintains a detention policy on the basis it is neccesary for Australias's security... There are two things immediately wrong with this:

1. ASIO has interviewed every detainee currently being in all facilities both in Australia and Naru. Their verdict continues to be that none pose a risk to Australia's national or civil security, or have any links to terrorists.

2. Terrorists fly business class, with forged documents and financial backing. They would not risk a planned operation by getting on a slow, leaky boat with a high probability of interception.

Finally, families do not pose a security risk to our community. There are possibly few things in the world that would be more binding to co-operative peaceful behaviour than having childeren to worry about. Currently, confirmed criminals on parole have more social mobility than families in detention. If we can keep track of the whereabouts of convicted crims well enough to let them back into society, what is the pervasive fear of refugee families?

I think we must first rethink why we need mandatory detention so much in the first instance. That however, is probably a separate issue to this thread.
 
I think its also disgusting how refugees are being treated and talked about like thy are scum and to send them back to where they came from. Mostly they are families that are trying to make a decent, SAFE and happy life for themselves and can not do it because of the circumstances they were put in ie war torn countries, highly dangerous political countries and just things like human rights being evaded and no being 'free"

We should be helpng them start a new life and not be treating these "criminals" like they are dirt....fuck everyone who has this opinion!!

Just goes to show that we are not born to hate ...its breed in us so it's so important to have it known as much as possible so everyone is aware of what our fuckwith of a government are doing.

On the topic of kids being seperated with parents dont think that they should be seperated from the only family they know in a country that most likely has a different culture and main language used that they do not know and are just throw here (for whatever good reason they escaped and RISKED their lives to get here for their families) It would make things very hard for the children.

Then again i don't think kids should really be in "prison" with their parents either because yes it wasn't them who committed the crime so why should they suffer? but the thing that most people are not seeing is that they are not fucking criminals in the first place

everyone who has the mentality to think that whatever situation you are born in "lump it or leave it" or "thats the way the cookie crumbles" ie kind of thing have really uneducated and selfish attitude!

and yes i am aware that the country can't just say "hey heres a house, welcome" because of financial things , political thigs or whatever this country has i still think that we probably have the resorces and we have lots of land to build new houses with (as long as we check that it isn't sacred etc) We have a better chance of actually doing something and helping them and actually making a difference t all these people...like for example the usa can get their own fucking troops for their own wars that they created and not use our soilders when its not our fucking war in the first place. This money could be better well spend on helping new migrant families get training , engish lessons and places to live etc so they can start a decent life for their family ...we ALL want this and i think living in australia people take it for granted that you do.
 
Two words from me to start: It's FUCKED....

2ndly, it is against basic human rights, which has been pointed out by the United Nations, international and national charity and human rights groups, and still John Cunthead Howard continues to impose his racist regime upon these people who's crime is nothing more than trying to provide a better life for themselves and their familes. I wish i had 5 minutes alone with little Johnny in a 8 X 8 cell to beat the living shit out him....

Whilst speaking of ignorant and dispicable governments, did anyone see the news tonight on the new US appointed Head of Peacekeeping forces in Iraq? He is a former head officer in Sadamn Hussein's regime.....i repeat, he was appointed by the US!!!! To quote a senior US Army official when describing the man, "He not squeky clean, but he is pretty clean".....This may be the most outrageous, disgusting and blatently stupid moment of the entire Iraq debarcle...

Sorry for the off topicness, but it is all related in a way....fuck it all pisses me off tho....narrow minded ignorant bastards....
 
what about we work up to a point where we will be able to provide community housing for detainees?
 
It's My Icecream & You Can't Have A Lick

-Thoth said:
Is it just me, or does "The Pacific Solution" have a somewhat creepy ring to it when you say it aloud?

^^^
Word 8(

Detention was, like, stayin' back fo'
an hour after school in my day...

Wouldn't want anyone to get into our Island Paradise, aye...

The Lucky Country.
People Who Need People
Are The Luckiest People?

Yeah, They ALL LOOK SOOOO LUCKY.
Pffffffffff
:X :X :X
 
What a sad, sad state of affairs...

There has to be at least one person in this country contemplating suicide...

Why not shoot John Howard then shoot yourself?

Do something good with the rest of your life...
 
ok, yep... good... we're all against it together. so now who has some ideas?

can we start a list of families with a bungalo or a spare room to lend? i mean afterall, it'd be OK if you put them up for a while wouldnt it?
 
~

^^^
It's being done in some respects...
...at least for those being allowed
'through the turnstyles'...
End of last year a mate & me
spend a fair amount of time
deliverin' food hampers
to 'new entrants' to 'the park'
and they were being put up
in houses, or freeboarding in
units ect.

Usually families with small children
& poor English Skills from Africa,
Afganistan & Middle/Eastern Europe.
It was organised by some Cathololovin'group,
but, you know, they do good work,
so I bit my tongue.

If people wanna help,
and they got time,
it aint hard to find a way
other than protest
(tho I do like a good shout).
 
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