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  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

H.E.C.S - Your opinions if you will

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There’s been a saying around for ages that the biggest investment anyone will make in their life is the purchase of a house, followed by the purchase of a car – but in today’s day and age, education could easily fight for second position. HECS has always been a touchy subject, and with it ever increasing it becomes more of a sore point to students.

I’m also old enough to remember the glowing reference to Australia being the lucky country with the right to free education – I mean education has never been free entirely, there's always been costs incurred, but are these cost starting to blow out?

I’ve been out of the higher education system for awhile and at times I feel I lose understanding with it all, but as a father it still interests me. With this in mind, I put forward to the bluelight collective, that consists a high percentage of students, or people just completed.

Is HECS a fair system and are the fees justifiable in your opinion? What are the alternatives?

Discuss :)
 
My opinion from this thread back in december.

Considering I've got a degree that has two years left, another that's starting next year (double major) and then a doctorate (if I manage to get that far) yeah it's a little daunting when looking at what i will need to repay. My HECS is almost paid off to date but the additions won't be nice.

But really, why shouldn't you pay for your education? You know what, universities struggle - they're not this huge cash cow that sits and rakes in the money.

Rising costs mean rising fees, I see no problem with that, you don’t need to be a uni student to know that the cost of everything goes up – why should uni fees stay the same?

The repayment threshold is going up too – that’s actually a bonus. Rather than starting to pay your loans back at $24,365 it will be at $35,000 and in 2005-06 it will rise yet again to $36,184. So despite the cost of university studies rising, the salary you need to be earning before you pay it back rises too.

You don’t need a Bachelors for most of today’s jobs, if today’s school leavers would look at the VET sector and on-job training as a path to advancement and step into the real world rather than doing a pissy arts degree that they will never be able to utilise, funding for universities would be used more effectively.

We’ve got it good here, so much better than other countries, better than the international students who come here to study and pay well above what we pay, why whinge because you’re educating yourself so you can become qualified for a higher-paying or higher-skilled position?

Now, if you’re still buggaring around and doing a degree that you won’t be able to use, or going to uni just because you don’t really know what to do and are just taking courses until you decide what you like... well then you have cause to worry.
There is incentive for education, higher paying jobs and a higher skilled workforce seem pretty good reasons to me.

I really believe that learning for the sake of learning should be done once you are in a stable position. If you love philosphy for example why not study it after you have the job, the home etc - study for pleasure when you can do it in comfort rather than being a drain on the system and struggling to get a job in your mid twenties after years spent studying a degree that has no value to your prospective employers?
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my view hasn't really changed - i think those who whinge about rising fees need a reality check.
 
I think HECS is fair enough - I don't have a problem with paying for my tertiary education, I just have a problem with the quality of the tertiary education I'm paying for.

I think nursing students pay way too much HECS too. Also I think the threshold is too low - I earn around 32,000 a year (4 shifts a week) and pay back $100 plus a fortnight in HECS, depending on how many hours I do. Its really not worth doing a lot of shift work or hours because the more I earn, the more HECS/tax I pay and I end up earning the same amount anyway.

Also, if you're anything like me, and can't figure out what to do with the rest of your life and change majors/courses a lot, you end up paying HECS and gain nothing from it.

HECS is not designed for scatty people like me thats for sure. All in all though, I don't really notice it coming out of my pay that much, occasionally I'll look at my payslip and freak but not that often.
 
Firstly, I would just like to say that HECS is a fantastic invention that I can't praise highly enough. However, I do believe that these new increases are starting to blow the cost of a university education out to extreme levels. As haste said, education used to be free in this country and yet now we're paying tens of thousands of dollars for the privilege.

I don't think the answer is more international full fee paying students. I don't think the answer is raising HECS fees. I think the answer should come from the government. In my opinion, an educated society is one of the most important aspects in creating a high standard of living. I'm not going to pretend to know anything about the budget or where the money is allocated but surely, surely a larger part of our education could be government subsidised.

You don’t need a Bachelors for most of today’s jobs, if today’s school leavers would look at the VET sector and on-job training as a path to advancement and step into the real world rather than doing a pissy arts degree that they will never be able to utilise, funding for universities would be used more effectively.


I think that's an arguable point. Why are the only important courses vocation focussed? The great minds of our generation are not often found in a business class but in the philosophy faculty that you see as worthless. University is about getting an education... it's not necessrily just training for a career.

The allowances the government has made [ie raising the amount of money you earn before you have to pay it back] is barely satisfactory. Who cares that you have to earn more before you pay it back? The debt is still much larger than it previously would have been and it just means with will probably be hanging over your head for longer.
 
*sunflower* said:
I don't really notice it coming out of my pay that much, occasionally I'll look at my payslip and freak but not that often.
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You pay yours back in your normal pay? I only paid mine at tax time... didn't realise you could pay it incrementally throughout the year.

I think I was one of the lucky ones; I finished my 3 year Arts degree in 1995, while it was still fairly affordable. My $7000 debt (finished paying off last year - YAY!) was really nothing compared to some peoples'.

I have no problem with the system at all. Then again, as I said; my debt wasn't all that much, I had it paid off in 5 years and all it cost me really was no tax refunds in that time. But the earning potential it has gained me is positively disproportionate. :)
 
^^^ thats the only way I've ever paid it, along with most people I know (except for the organised ones who paid it up-front). Weird. Not sure whether your way is better or mine. Yours probably.

I usually get tax back too, probably because I earn crappy money and pay too much tax throughout the year or something.
 
Hmmm, this has me baffled now. How it's usually gone for me is, the accountant says I *would* have been getting a tax return for say, $3000, but because I've still got HECS outstanding, that chews up $2500 of it. So I'll only get $500, or more likely nothing. I'm not sure ... maybe it's been being taken out during the year as well, but if you're entitled to a return you have to pay still more? If anyone knows about this clue us in!
 
^^^ You only pay HECS back during the year if you tell your employer to take it out.
 
University is about getting an education not just training for a career. I totally agree with this statement. The govt funded section of higher education is governed according to the principles of total quality, yet with the fiscal crisis of the state they have implemented a dual-track (HECS and full-fee) system embedded with problems that (let's face it) do not deliver total quality on any number of grounds. Why does the solution to this have to involve burdening costs to those least able to afford it- the consumer. Australia has one of the lowest rates of coporate tax in the world, yet has a teritary education system that has slipped from one of the finest to second rate. If you believe uni is about getting an education for the most able, why couldn't the burden of providing a total quality education be shouldered by the community as a whole through taxation (more specifically big business, who really should have a vested interest at turning out the most talented leaders of tomorrow). However, if you merely believe that uni is merely training for your future job why don't you enroll in a full-fee paying private institution where companies such as shell provide funding for enviromental sciene degrees (can you believe that). Education as a business that we export overseas doesn't provide total quality, why should the users be expected to pay for a substandard product- when the community as a whole can come together, provide a better service for the future available to everybody.

To be honest i'd be prepared to pay more tax out of my meagre wages (which i can tell you a pretty damn meagre) upfront than HECS. I'd be prepared for a greater sacrifice for a better service- i just wish the rest of australia would too instead of the increasing tendency to not give a shit about anything that doesn't directly concern you.... you'd think we're becoming america!
 
Thanks chick. Yeah, I always tick the HECS/student loans option on my income tax form when I start a new job. Always thought if didn't, I'd end up with a huge bill at the end of the financial year.

This year though, I should get a pretty good tax cheque because I was paying back HECS through my pay even after I paid it off.

Yay for me.
 
I already owe a small fortune in HECS fees because of all my attempts of actually getting into my degree to start with plus having to withdraw from subjects past the hecs date etc plus all the classes i'm doing in my degree now. It will take me forever to pay it back when i actually get my degree and start work BUT if it wasn't for HECS then there is no way i would be able to be getting a degree for my future anyway because i'm not a spolit rich kid who has their mummies and daddies pay for everything for them so i'm grateful :)
 
if you pay up before a certain date in any amount over $500 in a lump sum payment, you get a 10 or 15% bonus for doing it. Look at the HECS part of www.ato.gov.au as that has info on it.
 
It’s a sad show of our society when we box “educated” people into the group who have been privileged to attend university. :(

Education doesn’t only occur inside the university and going to university is a privilege not a right – you don’t see people who go through TAFE having a fit because they have to pay for the skills that equip them to function in the real world. You make the choice to go to university; I don’t understand how people can’t see the value in that education.

I would rather my tax dollars go into skilling workers to create a productive society than allowing everyone to attend university, in fact I think that we should first look at our schooling system before we complain about the state of universities. If you wish to attend university for the ‘education’ alone then you should do it once you carry your weight in this society rather than expect everyone to carry you whilst you explore.

The HECS system has made university more feasible for those who would not be able to afford places; it has made higher education a reality for many people who otherwise could not cope with the financial burden. Like any system it has its flaws but asking students to pay for their own education is not one of them.
 
yeah i wish i could work, get a degree and raise my son by myself but i just don't have the funds or time to do it. One day i will be paying back all the tax dollars that were given to me though. I still always feel shit for having to be on government support.
 
^^^^ your entitled to your opinion, i personally think that the present system of asking students to pay for their education is a flaw and a major one. Personally i'd like to see my tax dollars got to all forms of education and healthcare rather than war and tax breaks for the richest australians.

Actually the HECS system reintroduced paying for your education and enabled people who wouldn't have been able to acess the course they wanted based on their marks able to pay their way in. I fail to see how the introduction of this system makes uni feasible for the poor; in so much that the poor probably cant afford the deferred debt now, which would influence their decision to go to uni if qualified

As for holding your weight in society, isn't that usually when you've got everything paid off and sorted out for the future and the time available for study. I don't think most people would achieve this before neuronal degredation occurs and they can't hold in any of the information they've just paid so much to learn.
 
HECS is both good and bad. The good thing is, a lot of people who cant afford education will be able to go to uni now.

But one thing that characterises the success of the US universities is because they have the cash. Look at UK and US. UK used to be the place where the elite go to for university- Cambridge and Oxford being the leaders. However, with America growing and becoming more powerful monetary, the US government can provide more funds for research, attract the best professors and thus students.

Not only that, but US universities charge astronomical prices in their tuition fees- this money goes back to the universities in terms of extra research, more facilities, better professors, which leads to them being so reknowned.

What im trying to say is: put in higher fees for all students, the universities get more money for research and better professors, and the FAME of the university increases... Once the quality of the education rises, naturally more people with the cash will want to go to your uni...

You're basically gauranteed a life of luxury if you graduate from harvard or any of the ivy leagues... Its all about the name of the university you graduate from... and it all comes down to money, unfortunately.
 
*sunflower* said:
This year though, I should get a pretty good tax cheque because I was paying back HECS through my pay even after I paid it off.

Yay for me.
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Well blow me down... I've just found out that's exactly what I've been doing too!! I was still confused after reading that website so I just went and asked our accountant at work. He said "Oh, you've paid off your debt? You should have told me! You've been getting taxed for HECS all this time"

Arrgh! So I have been paying it in my normal pay, I just didn't know. I must have also just paid at tax time because I had such large returns.

Anyway I have just given the government an extra $100 a month I didn't have to for the past year :X But I'll get it all back again hopefully.

Sorry we've gotten so off topic! But I thought it might be useful for people to know - no-one informs your employer when you're free of HECS... you have to do it, or they'll keep taxing you!
 
The politicians that make these decisions to increase HECS, are the same ones that benefitted from free university all those years ago. I'm lucky, my job is paying 2/3 of my HECs plus an extra 8 grand a year for books, etc
 
think about it...


in america, people save for years to put their kids through college..

here, if we can't afford it, we can put the cost on a loan, at minimal interest, that we dont have to pay back till we can actually afford it...


not bad is it????


i have a debt myself, dunno wot its at, dont care really..... i dont notice the extra payments coming out each week, all i know is that even though i am not working in the field that i studied, my degree has got me to the position i am today.. and i'm thankful for that...


wot i dont agree with is the propsed increase of 25%. in what fairness or wot industry can anybody put their prices up by 25%. all this is doing is costing the average person a position at university....

i have been self sufficient since i was 18. i supported myself the whole way thru uni, working 3 jobs to pay off my car, live comfortably and party like there is no tomorrow...

with a 25% increase, there would have been no way i would have considered going to uni... i have an IQ of over 140, i taught myself to read and can do most mathematic sums almost as quick as someone using a calculator... so would it be fair that someone like me misses out on a good education, simply because i came from a broken family????

can't wait till the liberal govt goes....
 
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