5-Htp and Es

i take Es 2-3 times a week averaging 6-10 pills p/w so yeh the magic just isnt there any more i dont get anything intense any more.. just a nice happy talky dancy mood its been 2months since ive had eye wobbles or jaw chatters even after double dropping ninjas.

sat night i went clubbing. had 2 white crowns and it didnt really do all that much for me. i had been clubbing and on Es the 2 previous nights so i wasnt expecting anything special on this night. the club closed at 5 and i left sober/straight no one would guess i had been out if they hadnt seen me earlier. a friend of mine suggested one of these recovery clubs in the valley and since i had never been to one b4 i thought why not ill give it a shot.

got there around 5:30am and remembered that in my pocket were a few of these herbal ecstasy pills * These contain 5-Htp which is the building blocks for Seratonin. i have had these b4 while im already rolling or drunk and not noticed anything besides a nicer come down. the most i have ever gotten from them was the time i had 2 on an empty stomach b4 i went out and it just kinda had me buzzing a bit.. more energy, chirpy, just made me really keen to go out. so anyways ive taken 2 of these on an empty stomach at around 6am, and within 15mins i noticed i was coming back up.

20mins after having these i decided to have another White Crown. 1hr later i found myself saying " oh my fuking god i honestly thought it wasnt possible for me to peak like this again " i havnt peaked like this since the early days.

i was on my ass seriously. i could barely talk / walk / see. i had eye wobbles for no joke 30mins straight and after that finished they went straight to the back of my head. my knees were bouncing around, hands clencing, seeing ppl that werent there, face muscles twitching, my whole body was buzzing!! if every time i had one of these i got this affect these would be worth at least 2-3 As ( the better ones ) no shit. 15/10
4pm my face was still tingling, hands still clenching, and was finding it hard to stick to one subject while talking

does anyone know any info on this? ie. would i have peaked again just from the 5-htp i took? or did the 5-htp suddenly bring my seratonin levels high enough to fuk me up after another pill? cause if it was $0.50 worth of legal capsules that made me peak the hardest in my life then i really think this is worth a closer look :O

for a big night i would have 3-4 of the best shit u can throw me at, but if this works for me every weekend i will find myself taking a few of these caps b4 i go out and then dropping only 1 pill in halves . now lets see.. *

any info would be appreciated and i will update the results of my experiments after my next roll %)

[edit] Edit: NO SOURCES, NO PRICES

So what you're asking is, can 5-Htp be effective in the space of one, one and a half hours? Personally I don't think so, but anyone else?

You link directly to an online supplier so the link can't stay but basically you took:

Each X Pill Contains:
Citrus Aurantium, Caffeine, 5-htp, Bioperine, Indian Bromine, Cinnamon, Cola Nut, Niacin, Fo Ti

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I do not beleive 5htp would be effective in such a short time and is recommended as a post load 6 hours after your finished. It would help replenish serotonin but I do not think it will work as an imediate serotonin boost. The 5htp has to be absorbed and converted first. I think it takes longer than an hour.

I'd say the combination of lots of pills over that bender and the huge hit of caffine(and what ever else you might have had) is the more likely answer.

just use 5-HTP only containing caspules...

yes i was under the impression that 5-htp would need to be absorbed and then also changed into seratonin and would take quite a while to happen 12hrs- 1 day but why only 30mins after eating these while sober on an empty stomach would i be so buzzed ? caffiene ? well im gonna try again in a few days. but yeh this is 1st time ive pre loaded but i have had these like 6 times while already chopped and noticed nothing at all. and we all know how it works with pills.. 1st is good 2nd is better 3rd is oo..kkk 4th is meh!! well 3rd was taken 9hrs after 1st.. how the fuk did i peak more than i have in my life.. esp when the 1st 2 didnt do 10 % of wat this did lol oh well see wat happens next time :D ill let yas know

btw.. that "bender" was nothing lol its quite common for me to go 3 nights straight of 3 good pills each night.. ie As or ninjas and not have one on my ass moment. remember everything. no come down. and work every one of those days mmm just have to see wat happens next time.. if it works again then u guys owe me :D

er.... I would personally have a break.. you're only gonna wreck the experiance for yourself more and more... but that's just me 8)
and not being a prick, but no one really cares about how many drugs you take... just that you don't do drugs stupidly...

Could be that all your previous pills were speed bombs?

And the 5-htp --> serotonin conversion is nearly instantaneous....

haha im actually just gonna start having less simply cause im gettin over it. and no i havnt had speed bombs As, the good ninjas, kangaroos, aliens, pink panthers, Crowns, late 2003 euros and Warner Bros.. all mdma lol as i explained, was seriously convinced that a peak like that was not obtainable for me ever again without considering triple/quad dropping which is a direction i dont really wanna go . im sure everyone gets to a point where those peaks were a thing of the past.

u say 5-htp --> seratonin conversion in instantaneous.. so basically if u were to take these 1hr b4 dropping u actually could restore reserves making it possible for a better peak? :D mm im gonna go see wat i can find on google

hmm ive found a few random sites with mixed answers. some ppl say it makes no difference for them whether its described for depression or to mix with mdma, where as others are saying that incorporating 5-htp with mdma was like having there 1st pill all over again! (sounds like me but even better :D) its sounding like it could depend on the person.

violent criminals have been found to have naturally low seratonin levels so i could possibly be right in assuming that someone like me ( care free, stress free, very happy and easy to get along with ) has naturally higher levels of seratonin then others. and for someone who drains my seratonin around 3 times a week that just doesnt sound right does it so..

possibly its because my seratonin glands are doing a better job at wat they do? and could there for make better use with a dose of 5-htp, refilling my stores faster and storing more than the average person?

this might all sound far fetched but yeh its just theory and maybe a bit of wishfull thinking it does kinda make sense doesnt it? lol

I wouldn't believe any information anyone says regarding 5-HTP to serotonin conversion times unless a medical paper had been provided as a reference. Does anyone have a credible reference to their claim?

http://www.erowid.org/ask/ask.cgi?ID=2355 and i have left the question: how long does it take for ur body to convert 5-HTP into seratonin. thanks for ur imput guys hopefully we will get an answer on this one soon.

it takes a fair while then maybe we'll just leave it at caffein is really good shit

placebo - double dropping ravers you are bound to feel something - try going out on even a half but dont aim for eye wobbles and jaw shudders and fucked upness.. actually aim for feeling good - you say it doesnt do shit but thats exactly the kind of shit you want it to do

i havnt gone out aiming for eye wobbles and the rest of it for almost 2months simply cause i know im not going to get it im more than happy just being able to bop around, talk to anyone i want, say random shit to chicks ( your fuking hot!! :D ) etc etc.. thats why im so surprised at wat happened sunday morning.

this also brings me back to last sunday night. i only had 1 ninja left on me 2 of these herbal ecstacys and a cone. 1st came the cone.. this was a bit of an upper due to the pills i had teh night b4. then i had the herbal Es and jumpep in the car on the way into town.

by the time i got to the city, i was already chopped.. didnt drop for an hour and a half as i was already dancing around :D i assumed it was the cone cause cones can sometimes bring u back up, but ive never come back up that much b4. now im thinking it was these herbal caps. i had my ninja (11pm) and danced until 4am. i went home astounded at how chopped i got off the single pill esp since i had done 3 the night b4 and 2 the night b4 that. this is definately worth looking too.

no matter how rich you are, your body just cant take the sheer amount of pills you're ingesting. For me, i only take E once every 3 weeks or so... and i can get floored on a 6-7 rated pill..
anyway, im sure you dont want any lecture about the amount of pills, but if you eat those probably 12-24 hours BEFORE you take your ecstasy, you'll probably notice a small difference.

Get the 5htp only capsules and take them before; it'll do you wonders!

i do less than i used too cause i honestly prefer to be social, dancing and confident.. rather than on my ass un able to move yes its an unbelievable experience. but i dont go clubbing for that reason. i go to dance and be social :D

and when u talk about how much someones body can handle.. it definatly ranges from person to person. i think since ive started dropping around 4months ago ive had approx 100 pills. it would normally take someone a year to get to this kind of usage but then again it would also take them quite a while to get over the intenseness and be willing to calm down. i can see me cutting back too 2 per week in the next month or so simply cause im finding that im a much happier person in general now and i wont need pills to have fun while im out

dont worry about the lecture.. ive had a fair few of them from ppl that dont know me too well.. after a 30min chat about my life.. the stages i went through with all the other shit that comes with growing up it always finishes with the other person giving me a smile of relief and a congrats on the good attitude

plus.. think about how fuked i would feel if i went out 3 nights a week and drunk myself stupid each time. god i hate hang overs lol

Cowboy Mac said:

I wouldn't believe any information anyone says regarding 5-HTP to serotonin conversion times unless a medical paper had been provided as a reference. Does anyone have a credible reference to their claim?

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Initially there's the ~hour wait before it actually goes through your digestive system that most people experience.

The rate-limiting step in serotonin synthesis is tryptophan hydroxylase.
There's a metric shitload of references for this, including neuropharmacology textbooks (of which I have none on hand).
here's one from pubmed
Bonkale WL, Murdock S, Janosky JE, Austin MC. "Normal levels of tryptophan hydroxylase immunoreactivity in the dorsal raphe of depressed suicide victims." J Neurochem. 2004 Feb;88(4):958-64.

few studies have examined the biosynthetic integrity of the rate-limiting enzyme, tryptophan hydroxylase (TPH), in post-mortem specimens of depressed suicide subjects.

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I'll look for more references in a sec, but the actual decarboxylation of 5-HTP is fairly rapid, but at the same time you've gotta wait for the absorption of it....

With a decarboxylase inhibitor, half-life is as follows:
Westenberg HG, Gerritsen TW, Meijer BA, van Praag HM. "Kinetics of l-5-hydroxytryptophan in healthy subjects." Psychiatry Res. 1982 Dec;7(3):373-85.

The kinetics of l-5-hydroxytryptophan (5-HTP) were studied in five volunteers after intravenous and oral administration of 5-HTP following pretreatment with carbidopa. In addition, the effect of pretreatment with carbidopa on metabolism and disposition of 5-HTP was studied in eight subjects. The kinetics of 5-HTP following a 20-minute linear infusion are adequately described by a biexponential function. The biological half-life of 5-HTP ranged from 2.2 to 7.4 hours, and the plasma clearance ranged from 0.10 to 0.23 1/kg/hour. The bioavailability of 5-HTP after oral administration in combination with carbidopa was calculated as 48% +/- 15 (mean +/- SD). The plasma concentrations of 5-HTP observed in this study displayed an unusual double peak in most subjects after oral administration. Pretreatment with carbidopa caused a significant increase in the extent of absorption of unchanged 5-HTP, and a significant reduction in the area under the plasma concentration-time curves of 5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid.

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5-HTP crosses from blood plasma into the brain extremely quickly.
Hagberg GE, Torstenson R, Marteinsdottir I, Fredrikson M, Langstrom B, Blomqvist G. "Kinetic compartment modeling of [11C]-5-hydroxy-L-tryptophan for positron emission tomography assessment of serotonin synthesis in human brain." J Cereb Blood Flow Metab. 2002 Nov;22(11):1352-66.

The substrate for the second enzymatic step in serotonin synthesis, 5-hydroxy-L-tryptophan, labeled in the beta-position ([11C]-HTP), was used for positron emission tomography (PET) measurements in six healthy human participants, examined on two occasions. One- and two-tissue kinetic compartment modeling of time-radioactivity curves was performed, using arterial, metabolite-corrected [11C]-HTP values as input function. The availability of unchanged tracer in arterial blood plasma was > or = 80% up to 60 minutes after injection, while [11C]-hydroxyindole acetic acid and [11C]-serotonin accounted for the remaining radioactivity, amounting to < or = 16% and < or = 4%, respectively. Compartment modeling was performed for brain stem, putamen, caudate nucleus, anterior cingulate, white matter, and superior occipital, occipitotemporal, and temporal cortices. The average biologic half-life for plasma-to-tissue equilibrium was 7 to 12 minutes, and the volume of distribution was 0.2 to 0.5 microL.mL(-1).

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I'm currently looking for information on the 5-HTP to serotonin production step.... but as I said due to the quick action of the decarboxylase enzyme it is believed to be quite rapid...

Much of the problem with using tryptophan is that it competes for transport across the blood-brain barrier with several other amino acids.

This study seems to imply that once tryptophan reaches the brain, the half-life for serotonin production from it is only on the order of half an hour or so, or at least for a rat
Diksic M, Nagahiro S, Sourkes TL. "Biological model for the in vivo measurement of rate of serotonin synthesis in the brain." J Neural Transm Suppl. 1990;29:131-40.

A biological model for the measurement of the rate of serotonin synthesis in rat brain with alpha-[14C]methyl-L-tryptophan is described. The rate of serotonin synthesis in several grossly dissected brain structures is reported. The half-life of the precursor pool, estimated from kinetic data, is between 20 and 25 min. The method allows, for the first time, measurement of the brain serotonin synthesis rate without any pharmacological manipulation and does not require separation of metabolites.

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I'm not *entirely* sure if thats what that means though.

There's a number of other studies using alpha-methyl-tryptophan but they find it hard to actually determine how fast synthesis is occurring due to other factors.

a search for "hydroxytryptophan decarboxylase" turns up over a thousand hits
"hydroxytryptophan decarboxylase half-life" turns up nothing. any other suggested searches?

I'm going to have a look in MedLine myself later in the week, thanks for posting the studies VelocideX