Discipline and children

During an excursion to Coles after work today, I was walking around and as I went through the chocolates and sweets section (dreaming of what I could have if I wasn't on a diet ), I became witness to a kid coping a good walloping.

You probably know the type of kid I'm talking about - they'll whine and whine for something, increasing in intensity as the request is denied, eventually ending in hysterics and crying. The mother, emabarassed I'm assuming, seen her only other option left to her was to give this kid a few well delivered wallops on the bum - damn even I cringed. All hell broke loose then, he might have been crying before, but not he was screaming at the top of his lungs.

This particular incident struck a nerve with me because I come from an abused childhood myself, where my father believed that words were a waste of time when disciplining a kid - without getting into too much detail, but I'm sure you know what I mean.

I'm a father myself and knock on wood have the most adorable and well behaved child - even though I'm divorced, both his mother and I have worked as a team in raising him. I have never resorted to laying a finger on him, nor even contemplated it. You say no to him and thats it, end of story - he drops it and no arguing the matter - you ask to him to do something and he does it without question. Yes I am blessed

Back to the child at Coles - it got me thinking - is this child predisposed to such behaviour, such as in his genes? Or is he the product of his upbringing? I guess the possibilities could be endless and each child would be an individual case.

I thought the tactics employed by the mother were overdone and quite cruel - but this could be my own personal bias speaking to. But I'd love to know what other people think about discipling children.

Is it acceptable to physically discipline your child? And if so, to what extent before it becomes abuse?

when i was growing up (i have three sisters and a brother) we all got the odd smack on the bum. my father would never lay a hand on us anywhere else apart from smacking our butts.

we got the stern warnings and the 'if u dont do what ur told u will get a hiding'. but he never over did it.

its hard to draw a line between whats classed as abuse and whats not every family is different and every child has its own individual behaviours and every parent disciplines differently.

i know familys who would never lay a hand on their child....but then their child is a lil shit

but then there are familys i know who do smack their kids on the butt and their child learns from it and doesnt do it again.

discipline isnt a bad thing (imo) ...as long as it has justifiable reasons.

I think my avatar resembles the best way to disipline misbehaved children....

NO - I'm kidding.

I don't believe in physical disipline at all. Ok maybe a smak on the hand, but certainly not whacking or abusing a child.

Theres other methods of discipline that can be found. Grounding, Taking away privledges, or even just talking to your child. I'm not a father and not planning on being one soon, but I would NEVER hit my kids.

THATS JUST NOT RIGHT - You don't hit or hurt children!

If anyone ever hit my kids, I'd fucken kill them.

shals.. :D

I think there has got to be better ways to dicipline a child......
There are so many words in the English language, yet we cuss all the time.

It's probably slightly naive me saying this, and I know it's wishful thinking [I don't have a child], but I would like to think I wouldn't resort to physical violence to teach a child anything.

haste said:

Back to the child at Coles - it got me thinking - is this child predisposed to such behaviour, such as in his genes? Or is he the product of his upbringing? I guess the possibilities could be endless and each child would be an individual case.

Click to expand...

Ah, the ol' heredity or environment discussion.
I guess we'll never know.

haste said:

Is it acceptable to physically discipline your child? And if so, to what extent before it becomes abuse?

Click to expand...

I personally don't agree with physical discipline, although I can understand why people resort to such measures.
Physical discipline I think can be classified as a 'mere' what on the bum, versus an all out beating.

My two pennis.
PEACE

terror child

Killing_time said:

I personally don't agree with physical discipline, although I can understand why people resort to such measures.
Physical discipline I think can be classified as a 'mere' what on the bum, versus an all out beating.

Click to expand...

^^^ me too. i in no way condone it. but i can understand why some parents feel that that is the last resort...

eg. i have allergies to artifical colours and flavours.

THANKFULLY ive grown out of them as the years gone by.

i used to go *mad* ...quite literally.

I'd change from *cute little girl with sunny disposition who WOULD listen and learn from a simple "no"* to this *vicious littel creature who ran round like the devil on speed*

No one could explain why til i was in grade 6.

So unitl that time. I was disciplined. Not saying anything about my parents being bad parents. it was jsut, thwn i got in a foul mood. nothing would work.

so they would use the *wooden spoon* or *the ruler* on a bare leg or an arm of a hand or bum and send meto my room to "think about what i had done"... becasue it was the only option that they had left.

They tried *everything* before that.

i used to *hate* them for it. Id get in my moods, and id get so angry, becsue it seemed to me that they were disciplining me for *no* reason. I had no control over my actions.

i was a terror. Thank god we pin ponted the problem and all was good.

but in cases like that... where the child doesnt seem to respond to any other measures, i can understnad why parents may feel the need.

BUT! as stated above. Thre is a fine line beween discipline and abuse. My parnets never crossed it. they jsut dont have it in them.

i dont think i could *ever* hit my kids, at all... purely because i dont think u should ever hit anyone/thing.

some kids- like me when i got in my moods- wont ever listen or learn. And grounding 5 year old isnt going to do a lot...

however, grounding a teenager... damn effective- i sure learn quickly whn my social life is ripped from my grasp!

i work at a primary school, and am privy to information on what affects a childs upbringing....... most experts agree that physical punishment can lead to self confidence issues, which can in turn affect speech, fine motor skills, and just about every facet of a childs life.... i wont be spanking any of my kids anytime soon

I used to get the odd smack when I was a kid and occassionally an instrument was employed eg. belt, thong, wooden spoon etc. It fucken hurt at the time and I made damn sure that what ever I did to get it at the time, I didn't do again. I don't think a bit of physical discipline is bad at all. I agree that it should be your last option but it works. I don't believe it affected me in any long term adverse way and wouldn't hesitate to use it on my kids, if I ever have any. The only issue I see with phyiscal discipline isn't linked to the actual discipline but the self control of the parent dealing it. If a parent who is naturally aggressive or what not is dealing out the punishment it can get carried away. That I believe is where the line in the sand that separates discipline and abuse lies.

i also got a smack evri now and then when i was younger and it probably did me a bit of good. sum kids need a smak now, coz if they dont get put in ther place by ther parents they wil go around being cheeky to evri1 and sum1 else will put them in ther place, and it wont b with a light smak. ive seen ppl get smashed from havign a big mouth and being cheeky, starting on strangers bigger then them who were minding ther own business. these sorts of ppl bring it on themself, but might not have if they had learnt wat having a smart mouth will get u from ther parents insted of sum1 else.

Hands are for loving, wooden spoons are for Discipline..

I would never use hitting or verbal abuse to a child. I had a step father who was really great at doing that.

There's nothing wrong with a gold old fashioned smack or boot up the arse with these little shits, if they caused a lot of hell, but only WHEN they deserved it, not just because you are in a bad mood or whatever, these kids are not emtional punching bags.

My mother has slapped my face countless times, whacked my arse with wooden spoon, my old man belted or whacked my arse with rolled up newspaper. It didn't really affect my upbring much at all, they all loved me, and I probably deserved these slaps/whacks because I was a pain in the arse, caused a lot of troubles, frought with my sister and brother, etc like most kids. But when I grew up, and got bit bigger than them, they just swore at me, never laid a finger on me.

I don't smack my son. I teach him self respect and to respect other people. Basically to treat others as you want to be treated.To not be violent and to not tolerate anyone being violent towards him because he is an important part of the universe and deserves to feel physically safe. I would be a hypocrite if i smacked him.

Children are not your possessions to do with as you wish. They are developing minds and bodies and you should not harm either of them.It will effect them throughout their life in some way and i doubt it would be a positive affect.

I think maybe when they a little and can not communicate so well you can give them a *little* smack on the hand if they are about to do something that will harm themselves such as touch a heater and you don't want them to burn their hands and they don't know any better so that little warning smack can give them a little warning danger so they don't reach for the heater again. That kind of thing is ok for *little* children.

I think there are other ways to disipline a child rather then giving them a good wallop. Time out is good and taking away privilages like games etc and also banning them from playing with friends ie grounding so they get a taste of what lack of freedom is (just like when you break the law and go to jail)

I copped quite a few beatings in my younger days, slaps in the face from my mother (who i eventually slapped back because of lack of respect of her lack of respect for me), beatings with the kettle cord and what not. It wasn't a constant thing but it happened enough.

What i really fucking hate though (while we are on the topic of shopping malls) is seeing parents with kids on leeshes LESSHES FOR FUCK SAKE!!

They are not fucken animals for gods sake! This really shits me. If a parent can not look after there child while they are shopping (and i don't care how hyper and active and wondering they are) they don't deserve to be parents and need to be taught how to.

I think there are situations where a smack on the hand or a tap on the bum is warranted - as doofqueen said, in situations where they're about to burn themselves, for example. It's a more immediate form of consequence to teach them about danger, and in those cases I think that's important.

Because I have a little kid and I'm just beginning the discipline thing first hand, I have all kinds of conflicting information and ideas about what works and what doesn't. I don't want to hurt my daughter, by any means. My Dad never laid a hand on me (until I was in my late teens, but that's another story for another time), and I always had an excellent relationship with him. Mum used to smack me a bit and I despised her for it - but I wonder if that had anything to do with the fact that I compared her to Dad's way of disciplining.

I don't want my kids to be scared of me, I think that's my main issue. And I don't want them to think that hitting anyone they like is okay, because it's not. But I also don't want them to think that they can get away with anything without suffering any consequences.

Little little kids think that "No" is a game. They think it's absolutely hilarious to make mummy frown and say "no!", and they laugh. Our paedeatrician told me that kids can become desensitised to the word if it's just used all the time and not in any context. So I try to do "Georgia, don't pull mummy's hair", "Georgia, please don't stick your hand in your food" and "Georgia, it's not nice to hurt Elliott [the cat]". Apparently that'll help her understand what's right and wrong better than just "no".

Anyway. I would never, ever smack a child in public. Not only would I feel like a really nasty person for doing so (I've always looked unfavourably at those parents in supermarkets who smack their kids until they're bawling and then yell at them), but I assume it would be humiliating for the child in question. And it just doesn't seem very productive. Child cries, parent smacks child, child cries louder, other people say mean things to parent, child enjoys being the one who's right, child does it again next time they're at the supermarket.

I'm sure that as a disciplinary action, and not as a preventative measure, smacking is more for the parents than for the kids. I could just have anger management issues, but I think most people have at least once gotten to the point of being so frustrated with someone they just have the urge to smack them in the face. And in my experiences both with being a parent and being an ex-childcare centre worker, kids have lots of those moments. They don't really understand right from wrong, and they don't know what you mean when you tell them they can't do something. It's a game. Hitting them isn't going to make it any clearer to them, it's just going to upset them and make them resent you (at least in the immediate aftermath). So I'm sure the whole angry spanking thing is really an outlet for the parents. They should get punching bags.

As for leashes.. my husband has said a number of times that he wants to get a leash for Georgia - that his mum put one on him when he was a toddler and he turned out fine. Not on my life! I mean, toddlers can be hard to keep track of and do have a tendency to run away, but there are other means to solve that problem. A leash does make them seem more like a pet than a child, and I hate that.

I think that physical discipline is not unreasonable and when/if I have kids I will probably smack them now n then. I know it's hard to determine where the line is drawn in regards to discipline as opposed to abuse, but I know that I could not bring myself to hit a child in a malicious way. I guess thats what I believe the difference between discipline and abuse is, whether it is in a manner which results in lasting pain and whether there is malicious intent.

Those of you who have mentioned being abused, or even being hit with objects such as rulers or wooden spoons or cords I am so sorry that you went through that. That definitely constitutes abuse IMO.
Doof queen, I agree with the face slapping indicating a lack of respect. Most parents I know smack their kids on the bottom - I always thought this was because it's relatively fleshy and wouldn't cause too much pain, yet serve as a reminder of wrongdoing?

I also believe that physical discipline is disrespectful once kids reach a certain level of maturity. Once they grow up a bit alternative methods are more effective such as grounding and privilege suspending. Though speaking from personal experience, some people just can't be reasoned with. One of my younger early teenage siblings had her tv privileges taken away; she would go to a friends house to watch. She was grounded; so she'd climb out of her window at 11pm to meet her friends. She'd wag school and get escorted there and home; so she'd wait until second period to skip. I can understand why some parents feel that physical discipline is the only answer. It doesn't make it right, but perhaps also some parents just have no idea how to deal with misbehaviour apart from doling out a hiding. That being said, I especially do not condone it for teenagers. Smacking's for little kids.

lastly, I remember reading something to this effect in the paper a few months ago;

"Those who claim that their parents gave them hidings when they
were young and it 'didn't have any lasting effect on me so it won't
have any detrimental effect on my children' obviously have indeed
been negatively affected, shown by their very denial of the fact"

This statement bothers me. I would like to think that I am a well-rounded, intelligent, caring and responsible individual. The majority of people who know me have told me that I am one of the calmest, most grounded people they know. More importantly, I am happy.
My parents physically disciplined me now and then when I was young with a few smacks, and I am actually glad they did. I don't resent them for it. I know that it was intended as a symbol of my wrongdoing and it didn't happen very often, which I think in itself is a credit to the way they brought me up. Furthermore, they have always treated me with respect. Being smacked as a child did not have a negative lasting effect on me, and I find it offensive to be told by a supposed expert who knows nothing about me that it did.

I know from my own experience with harsh discipline - it has had alot of adverse effects on my behaviour and respect for authority while growing up - effects that still echo themselves within me till this day. It took me many years for me to forgive my father and speak to him in a mature manner. I love him dearly, but we still struggle to this very day, cause we can still sense tension between us.

Somethings not right and eats me alive, despite efforts on my part to bury it.

I've been wondering this myself for a while.. my son has just turned one and old enuf to be needing discipline. I was horrified to find that my mother had been smacking him on the bottom for getting into things, but at that stage he was only 9 months old and didn't know any better! I have since decided that a smack on the hand would be ok, cos it's really the only thing i can think of to do at this age, because he just doesn' t understand the concept of "no".

As a child i broke the wooden spoon on my ass...back in the old days when u were allowed to smack ur kids without being in trouble for abuse!

Also, i can't believe i have been almost seriously contemplating getting a "leash" for my son. I always had the same opinion as everyone else - that they are for pets! But controlling a one year old is near impossible. I put him down and he runs off. He wont sit in his pram without trying to escape. It's so annoying. But then again, i suppose it's only a few months till he can understand properly and not run off. I can stay home till that day.. LOL..

^^ I have never actually hit my son, btw.

I agree with dq etc...children are people, not possessions. Would you smack your friend for being rude or obnoxious?

I think my mum hit me a grand total of 2 or 3 times when I was growing up, she had come from a background of abuse and was absolutely hardcore against corporal punishment (I think that's the right term). In the strange and unlikely event that I should ever end up with kids of my own, I will follow in her footsteps. I believe that the reason my mother and I had such a great relationship is because she always treated me with love and compassion, and there were times when I knew she was frustrated because I'd been a little shit, but I never once doubted that she was proud of me and loved me for who I was.

Conversely, every family I've been around (including other relatives of mine) where physical punishment is part of the routine, the kids just don't have any respect for the parents and they're always after some sign that they're respected or loved.

Having said all of that, there will always be exceptions...nobody's perfect...as has been mentioned, if a child is in immediate physical danger, then you'll do anything to prevent that. And of course there will be times when parents have had a shit day or they're at the end of their tether or whatever, which is probably what caused those 2 or 3 times I remember being smacked as a kid...but on those ocassions she also came to me afterwards and explained what I'd done that was wrong, and apologised for hitting me, again going back to that respect and compassion thing...

One of the most disturbing things on a parental-psychological level I ever witnessed was the interaction between a mother and son, then the son and his brother.

I was on the ferrie, and this mother was play hitting her son, to which he would then respond by hitting her back. It was getting more intense as the mothers "play" hits became harder and harder and her 4yr old son returned the same. I was already disgusted by this display, when the mother decided she had enough told her son to stop. Her son being 4 year old did not understand the concept of hitting as being wrong, clearly as the parents did not show any level of respect towards the child, or treat them in a way a another human being should be treated. The 4 yr old then decided to hit his brother once his mother didnt want anymore and then, to my astonishment was punished by another hit to the head. They were clearly well to do parents, and when their son goes to jail for assult or rape and they cry out "but we were such good parents !" the saddest thing about that is that they will actually believe it. People need to be taught how to parent, or have a liscense for having children. Displays like the one I saw just cement in my mind how sick and fucked up the middle-class is. If its their way, they think its best way. I would never hurt my children in order for them to learn. I wouldnt either entirely rule out a little smack, as long as, and this should go with any other type of punishment is delt out, that the child is explained the wrong doing of their actions. Seriously huurting a child physically and then not explaining their actions to them will fuck them up, and lead to much worse behaviour in the future. How ironic that the abuse doesnt curb bad behaviour but induces it.
This all stems from the laziness parents feel towards their childs upbringing. No thought for the consequences, just act the way that they were brought up. I turned out alright didnt I ? (their justification)
Dumb parents deserve to die.

^^ yeah i know ...you have to have a licence to have a dog but anyone who is physically capable of having a child will and there is nothing anyone can do aboit it really...

Raz said:

I believe that the reason my mother and I had such a great relationship is because she always treated me with love and compassion, and there were times when I knew she was frustrated because I'd been a little shit, but I never once doubted that she was proud of me and loved me for who I was.

Click to expand...

I hope my son feels that way about me now and when he gets older