deprenyl and mdma dose

Ok i searched the site for the information on combining deprenyl (selegiline hydrocholide) with mdma. What i din't find where exact dosages tried. Can anyone help me with this? If i were to take 10 mg.of deprenyl how much mdma would i need to get an effect similar to 100-120 mg of mdma?
Hope anyone who tried this can help!
Mazzl

Dep doesn't affect the MDMA high as far as i am aware, however, I'd not exceed 5mg. At higher doses dep loses its MAO selectivity and can interfere with mdma metabolism & raise the risk for serotonin syndrome.

I think less than 10mg is MAO-B selective, so keep to that, because it is the MAO-B that causes all the damage to the seratonin axons.

MDMA is a MAO-A inhibitor to some degree, so you do not need that.

Where did you get the l-deprenyl from ?

Doctors will not give it to me, and my grandma (who has parkinsons) will not give me any, the bitch! Man, people haz got to loosen up. Iz just a pill for Gods sake !

"Logistical analysis of concentration response curves for MDMA inhibition of MAO-A and MAO-B show an IC50 of 44 µmol/L for inhibition of MAO-A by MDMA. The IC50 value of MDMA inhibition of MAO-B was 370µmol/L, showing a selective potency for MAO-A inhibition. "

I would caution persons who do not know and understand the mechanisms by which Deprenyl works, esp w/ regards to MDMA to simply not take it for MDMA neuroprotection. Stick w/ anti-oxidants...

Deprenyl is a hardcore approach to preventing neurotoxicity, and 1 or two extra Deprenyl tablets could literally mean the difference between life and death. Definately not for the pharmacology-challeneged avegerage MDMA user...


X

I think 5mg of deprenyl and 1 good mdma pill is not dangerous at all.

If it stops most of the damage that MDMA does, then why not take it?

Even doctors can make dosing mistakes. Since it doesn't seem that MDMA in moderate doses causes neurological damage in the first place, there's not much motivation to mix MDMA with another drug that has such potentially dangerous interactions.

on medline i found information stating that above 60! milligrams selectivity is lost (probaly there is no one point but still). Ten milligrams is the dose needed for full mao b inhibition (or lesser amounts on succesive days). I thought because it mdma) is a phenethylamine mao b would be needed to break it down (just found out this is not the case; good info thedea.org!), and deprenyl would thus lengthen the high (i read on shulgrins site he recommended stopping deprenyl before a mescaline session because it interfered with breakdown), it seems from your comments this is not the case. So maybe i will go with 10 mg of deprenyl plus 80 mg mdma and have a 40/50 mg booster ready. I haven't taken any mdma in years and don't really feel like ruining my regained "drug naive"state, so alpha lipoic acid and maybe prozac will be part of pre (lip a) and post (prozac, but it also has some mao b inhibiting properties, sleep will probably be hard to come by with such a protocol, a friend of mine took prozac after an mda trip and didn't sleep, i don't know if the prozac had anything to do with that).
Anyone ever used beta blockers in a home setting to deminish jaw clenching?

also dous anyone have the experience that the hangover/depression after mdma is less with a substantial amount of lipoic acid?

on medline i found information stating that above 60! milligrams selectivity is lost (probaly there is no one point but still).

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This is just an estimate based on animal studies. There is no way to determine where selectivity is lost in humans, but it's expected to occur at any dosage above 10mg, and sometimes less.

Ten milligrams is the dose needed for full mao b inhibition (or lesser amounts on succesive days). I thought because it mdma) is a phenethylamine mao b would be needed to break it down (just found out this is not the case; good info thedea.org!), and deprenyl would thus lengthen the high (i read on shulgrins site he recommended stopping deprenyl before a mescaline session because it interfered with breakdown)

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Deprenyl does not enhance the high of MDMA since any metabolites of MDMA which may be good substrates for MAO-B are very weakly or fully inactive.

it seems from your comments this is not the case. So maybe i will go with 10 mg of deprenyl plus 80 mg mdma and have a 40/50 mg booster ready. I haven't taken any mdma in years and don't really feel like ruining my regained "drug naive"state, so alpha lipoic acid and maybe prozac will be part of pre (lip a) and post (prozac, but it also has some mao b inhibiting properties, sleep will probably be hard to come by with such a protocol, a friend of mine took prozac after an mda trip and didn't sleep, i don't know if the prozac had anything to do with that).

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You're a prime example of someone who should not use Deprenyl. You simply don't know enough about the drug. Go read the PDR and see what it says about combining Deprenyl 10mg and SSRIs. People have died from this.


X

shiite muslim, when will the people learn?

kids, DONT MIX L-DEP w/MDMA, MM OK?

and if you didn't digest THE ABOVE (and Adam X's) WARNINGS AND CAUTIONS, farkin be smart enough to not take more than 5mg ok?

and if ya's been takin l-dep awhile remember its cumulative, SO DONT MIX, mm OK?

adam x You seem to be pretty full of yourself judging who can do what and who is knowligeable enough and who not. My problem with your comments are this, you probably don't have experience with this paticular combination (if you do please share!) so your thinking is just an extrapolation, and even you yourself seem to think thatthat is not verrry precise. Friends of mine have taken mdma (50mg) with a 3 gram dose of harmala (considered to be a full mao a inhibitory dose) and had a great time, no problems. Now i don't say that it is the way to go because high blood pressure might be a problem, but it dous show that in real life certain combinations are possible, as long as the dose is adjusted. That is the reason for this thread in the first place: to see if anyone had any experience with the particular combination. Of course the harmala alkaloids are reversibel mao inhibitors, and the possible mao a inhibition from deprenyl might be non-reversible, or some other mechanism might make it neccesary to reduce the mdma even further, but still this dous not mean it is the deadly combination you are trying to make it out to be.
So please stop the stupid and simple remarks. I will take my own responsibility thank you.

they were not stupid, nor simple, they simply pointed out , based on academic knowledge, personal experience (probably not with excessive doses of l-dep though), and not least knowledge obtained by other peoples experiences, that you should be careful with mixing the compounds, and (perhaps luckily?) pointed out that mixing dep with SSRI's is a potentially dangerous combo.. It's great that you'll take your own resp, but when somebody tries to help you, try not being so harsh in return.

smartshop said:

Friends of mine have taken mdma (50mg) with a 3 gram dose of harmala (considered to be a full mao a inhibitory dose) and had a great time, no problems.

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Harmaline alkaloids are REVERSIBLE MAO inhibitors, whereas deprenyl is a non-reversible inhibitor (so-called "suicide inhibitors"). I think you'll find thats the reason for this. Having said that, mixing such a large quantity of a reversible MAO inhibitor with MDMA is not safe either.

Take moclobemide (Aurorix/Manerix) - several people have died from combining this with MDMA.

Vuori E, Henry JA, Ojanpera I I, Nieminen R, "Death following ingestion of MDMA (ecstasy) and moclobemide" [i[Addiction[/i] 2003 Mar;98(3):365-368

smartshop said:

So maybe i will go with 10 mg of deprenyl plus 80 mg mdma and have a 40/50 mg booster ready.

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If you do insist on trying this combination, which I do not recommend, what's the rush?

Why not be more sensible and start with 2.5mg? Why the need to jump in at 10mg? If something does go wrong, a dose that is half of what you intend is much more likely to be survivable.

Some people (like 50+ year olds) have died from the old MAOI's (non selective) and red wine and vintage cheese.

But then again, a good friend took 600mg of moclobemide daily (although a MAOI A inhibitor, at that dose is also about 30% MAOI B inhibitor) and took 2 good MDMA pills (strong and clean) and 130ml methadone (100ml daily and a booster 1 hour before dropping the mdma) and joints was totally fine and happy all night, and had no side effects (like dizzyness or stomach problems or pounding heart or anything else noticeable).

I really think each person has a drug tolerance, and drug limit. Some people can take the hugest mix of drugs and not fall down, yet some other people can take a small amount of drugs and collapse, especially if they have just started *mixing* different drugs.

I guess you have got to find out what your tolerance is, by slowly increasing drug use, then not go over it once you figure out what it is, no matter what.

I have tried moclobemide (300mg) after dropping 1 and a half MDMA pills before and had no problems at all, and felt it lessened my comedown. I waited till the rush had completly finished (5 hours) and felt very 'straight', then took the moclobemide, in halfs (150mg) 1 hour apart, to make sure everything was alright. Better than prozac which has a rediculous 8 day half life.

Each to their own.

You are right about slowly upping the dose to see how it goes. But i would still like to know if anyone has tried higher doses of deprenyl, i am shure there have been people who have done this and i would be intersted to hear their comments. Aslo the warning about ssri's and deprenyl is noted. But i have been on snri's and taken small doses deprenyl and had no problems, so again it is a question of dose. I really appreciate anyone sharing their information, but the comment about me being the prime example of someone who should not be playing around with these things pissed me off, i have a degree in neuroscience, a good deal of knowlidge about psychopharmacology, and have experimented with a lot of different drugs and drug combinations and believe i have done this in an mostly informed and responsible way. But i have time and hopefully will learn some more before i start actually ingesting these compounds.

What i have missed is any comments of people who have tried this combination and can say something about the qualitative differences between taking mdma alone and in combination with deprenyl, diffrences in the high, comedown..anything

i have a degree in neuroscience

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I would bet everything I own that you don't.


X

Dr. Beat said:

But then again, a good friend took 600mg of moclobemide daily (although a MAOI A inhibitor, at that dose is also about 30% MAOI B inhibitor)

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This is wrong, and its not your fault. I've seen this "fact" about on the web as well, and wondered how correct it was. (I am prescribed moclobemide)

I spent a while searching medline and found out that within normal dose ranges moclobemide is at least 200x more selective for MAO-A than MAO-B, making 30% inhibition of MAO-B impossible.

I've gotta dash, i'll source this tonight.

Here we go:
From Medline

Delini-Stula A, Radeke E, Waldmeier PC., "Basic and clinical aspects of the activity of the new monoamine oxidase inhibitors" Psychopharmacol Ser. 1988;5:147-58.

"The most selective MAO-A inhibitors are moclobemide and brofaromine, with ratios between their MAO-A and MAO-B inhibiting potency (estimated in in vitro assays) of 1: greater than or equal to 1000 and 1:500, respectively.

Check out also: Valles B, Coassolo P, De Sousa G, Aubert C, Rahmani R., "In vitro hepatic biotransformation of moclobemide (Ro 11-1163) in man and rat." Xenobiotica. 1993 Oct;23(10):1101-11. , which says

"Moclobemide, an inhibitor of monoamine oxidase, shows mixed MAO A/B inhibition in rat, but pure MAO A inhibition in man. This is attributed to a primary amine metabolite which inhibits MAO B in vitro, but which is not detected in human plasma in vivo."