Zoloft and LSD

[caden_g59]

I recently went on Zoloft for social anxiety and depression. I also recebtly got into psychedelics, specifically acid and 4-AcO-DMT. Does any ody have experience of taking Zoloft with LSD? I read things of people saying the effects were reduced, and other things people saying they still tripped just as intense as they do without Zoloft in their system. I take 25mg daily, and will soon be going to 50mg, then eventually 100mg. Any help is appreciated. I have tripped on acid 3 times before, I started Zoloft.

 

[BrassEye]

It's always been my understanding that LSD & SSRI's are not friends at all.
I have only a basic grasp of why though, hopefully someone can chime in with some pharmacodynamics.

I'm sure you understand that psychedelics have a tendency to amplify.. your feelings,, and bring issues to the surface that were previously buried. Essentially they can aggravate mental health issues and even trigger latent complexities that you had no idea were lurking under the surface.

But.. it is what you make of it y'know. I think for a lot of people the whole digging up & facing up to your issues is pretty much the whole point.
I've suffered with depression, anxiety & co. and for me, LSD has been.. at times.. a really bad idea.
As I've grown more experienced with psychedelics I've found it to be very much beneficial.. these days even a trainwreck of a trip can ultimately be a priceless opportunity to learn & grow stronger.. yeah

 

[Xorkoth]

The interaction between SSRIs and psychedelics seems to vary based on which SSRI and one's individual reactions. I've read reports of people being totally unable to trip on them, and of psychedelics being just as strong, and everywhere in between. In general I most often seem to read about people having reduced effects and needing higher dosages, and being unable to trip as deeply.

I believe that the higher your SSRI dose, the more likely it will be to severely impact your ability to trip.

 

[Lsdresearcher]

I was prescribed 30mg of Celexa daily for about a year and a half but I never really took it regularly because I didn't notice a difference. I know you asked about Zoloft but I would think most ssris would be the same. I have eaten 3 tabs of acid while regularly taking an ssri and got 0 effect, the same with up to 5 grams of shrooms. I've assumed this is because the medication regulates seratonin so when I try a psychedelic the pills won't let my brain release any extra. I quit th celexa (also quit tripping) for a while and I got on Zoloft also 25mg and I've been desiring to trip again so I've stopped taking to pills because I don't want to waste a trip.

Id like to find out if all SSRIs effect the same way, it's just really dissapointing to plan a trip and not get any thing.

 

[Xorkoth]

It's actually pretty confusing to me (and I believe others) as to why SSRIs block the effects of psychedelics, because SSRIs selectively inhibit the reuptake of serotonin, while psychedelics simply agonize serotonin (they do not cause it to be released, but instead fit into the same receptor sites, mimicking serotonin). Not being more than a journeyman in terms of knowledge about this stuff, I'm not quite sure why SSRIs would block effects. maybe because there is more serotonin stuck in the synapse, so the psychedelic is not able to bind to the receptor? As far as I know, SSRIs are not fully understood, and they have a wide range of effects in people. Some people can trip on them, some can't. Hell, my ex's cousin was prescribed one of them as a teenager and became far more depressed and started fantasizing about killing herself and her family, and went back to normal when she got off them. They're weird drugs.

 

[fleshdunce]

I'm currently on Zoloft and did do acid once. 100ug, didn't take the Zoloft (150mg) for a couple days beforehand. I first off do not recommend doing that, as the withdrawals are really gonna put a damper on your trip. It was a very slight trip, however I did feel the classic ball of energy feeling in my chest, along with some pretty mild visuals. At the end of the day, it'll effect everyone differently. If you want to do it, I would suggest starting off with a lower dosage and seeing how it effects you.

 

[Solipsis]

You are welcome to share as the anecdotes like that are interesting, but I do not think they should be taken as any sort of evidence. Like Xorkoth said: the reactions vary too wildly to really predict the outcome, we need a lot more data to get some sort of picture of your odds.

There is a poll here: http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/549856-LSD-Subthread-SSRI-Interactions but I say this to encourage people taking the poll, obviously far too few have taken it so far so again refrain from drawing conclusions. There are many SSRI's and this is just one of many factors that may determine the chance of interactions.

Don't go off your medication to trip, if you can do without them in general talk to your therapist about tapering. Be careful about combinations like these and reconsider whether it's worth gambling with your mental health and the outcome of the trip and whether you can even afford to.

@ becoming more depressed and suicidal (even homicidal apparently, or otherwise highly unstable), this is a known and serious risk for a lot of SSRI's and was ignored for a long time. If it happens it tends to be during the initial period of taking the medication and dialing it in. It should change after that. If it doesn't, you are one of the unlucky few of the unlucky several who get this temporarily.

 

[Dresden]

What good thing is Zoloft possibly doing for you? SSRIs are slightly less effective than placebo at treating major depressive disorders, increase suicidal ideation, cause flat affect, and cause the same kind of brain changes such as dendritic pruning as MDMA at a fraction of ecstasy's beneficial effects? The only use I could see for Zoloft is to treat premature ejaculation, prevent someone from getting high on MDMA for some reason, or to induce a flat affect outlook onto sonebody fot some reason. However, I can't think of a single reason why anyone would want or need a flat affect. Seriously, Zoloft id pharma garbage.

 

[Xorkoth]

While I generally agree, I know two people closely who SSRIs have really worked for. Not Zoloft specifically, but before them, these people were very depressed, relatively non-functioning, and one was suicidal. For them, they found an SSRI that seemed, to me, to make them normal, happy people. On the other hand I have a friend for whom all SSRIs he's tried have made him feel even worse, and that's saying something because he's been struggling with major depressive disorder since he was 15. And then there was the case of my ex's cousin which I described above that really creeps me out.

I think SSRIs are handed out way too freely and haphazardly, and doctors are given kickbacks for prescribing them, and it's fucked up. They seem like a crapshoot, but they do seem to work for some people. Check out Erowid reports, there's the whole spectrum of reported effects. I would say, however, that one should only approach SSRIs if other avenues have been exhausted... too often I hear about people going to the doctor like, hey, I've been feeling depressed, and they just instantly hand out a prescription. When maybe all you needed was to realize that some aspect of your life isn't working for you and that's why you're depressed. For example, I was horribly depressed for quite some time, but it was because I was in a shitty marriage and felt that there was no way out. Once I got out of that, my life started to be awesome again.

Anyway just trying to offer a broader perspective.

 

[Solipsis]

Being depressed is different from being sad though. Not sure what I'd recommend as anti-depressant instead, mirtazapine or something? Anyway this isn't the 'recommend an AD' thread..

But yes I too find SSRI's suspicious and don't buy their status as the current generation go-to AD. Was never open to them as an option. Was also not impressed by results in people close to me who have been on them.

However I'd be a lot more nuanced than to just randomly question people taking them about it like that.

Also @ flat affect: anti-depressants can certainly be of use for people who have too big ups and downs but mostly downs (I don't mean bipolar tho and its behavioral issues) - for them a flat affect for a limited period can help them get a chance to figure things out and get themselves on track which possibly can help progress through their process sooner or later. It can be a functional or necessary thing sometimes. A script indefinitely to just make people happy that aren't without them, that seems very simplified and often not true.
A dysthemic disorder is difficult to treat.

 

[Dresden]

The reason big pharma has yet to find a suitable antidepressant ever for the most part is that animal depression models are hard to make (the lab rats have a hard time filling out a standard depression questionairre in their shrink's office; wait a second, do rats even GET depressed?!), yet big pharma has insisted on using the sane incorrect test since the 1950s or 60s. Basically, the rat is immersed in a cylinder filled with water taller than it and forced to tread water ss long as possible until the animal just finally gives up and dies, I guess. If a lead compound makes the rats tread water longer than when sober on average, then bam! that new drug will make a great antidepressant in humans no doubt! It's insane, and at this rate and using this same test, we will never develop an effective antidepressant. Also, depression is a very subjective experience, and there are different types of depression, calling for different drugs. MDMA is my choice.

 

[Xorkoth]

Some of the animal testing to try to relate to activity in humans is absurd (and horrible as in the case you describe - both absurd and horrible), or at the very least misleading (like the head twitch test to determine psychedelia).

 

[Solipsis]

If you don't have an alternative, it seems pretty clever though? Just really imperfect.

 

[Incunabula]

If you're clinically depressed you might have low amounts of serotonin in your synapses and SSRI's might help - But what came first, the depression or the low amount of serotonin?

Somethings wrong today imo, with all the diagnosis and all the psychotropics that doctors prescribe today. I'm not saying it doesn't help some people, of cause it does. But it isn't medicine like antibiotics are for instance, that cures your disease - They're drugs that alter your psyche, but do they learn you to cope with your problems? Absolutely not.

It's quite sad imo, that so many young people today have a diagnose and get's medicated for things that they'd probably just have grown through earlier (AKA back in the days^tm)

 

[Xorkoth]

Actually I think some methods produce really misleading results. Like, meth would probably make a rat take longer to drown too. Maybe mescaline would too, I know when I have taken mescaline I felt like I could run forever, it definitely gave me endurance. Seems like there are a lot more factors going into trying to survive an acute danger situation than your level of depression.

I mean I guess it's probably pretty hard to figure out how to go to human trial stages with drugs. But some of the shit I hear about seems crazy to me.