Assignment Your help needed for a study about long term Anti-Psychotic use!

H

Hypnagog

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Hello, this is my first post on Bluelight.

Over a number of years I have been researching and collecting data in regards to long term and short term anti-psychotic drug use, withdrawal and recovery. Anti-psychotics/neuroleptic use comes under a lot of scrutiny, particularly for it's long list of side effects, impact on health and crippling withdrawal symptoms.

Through personal experience and research I was able to successfully withdrawal from anti-psychotic medication after 10 years of use. The process was not pretty and had very minimal support throughout as it was a personal decision that was not supported by my mental health service providers. During my experience I have heard countless horror stories about anti-psychotics good and bad.

From my understanding from people whom wish to stop these drugs, trying to get help is difficult as there seems to be very little support or advice for anti-psychotic/neuroleptic withdrawal online and within mental health systems other than brief guidelines. Certainly in my experience the support needed to get me through was immense. The experience forced me out of work, ruined relationships and almost made me homeless.

I post to ask about any experiences that AP users may wish to share about an unsuccessful or a successful withdrawal. It is may aim to try to get the best picture of this situation globally and of what kind of coping techniques or withdrawal methods you may have established.

I am hoping to use some your opinions and thoughts to help shape and consolidate a publication due for release in the near future to serve as an aid and guide for users of neuroleptic drugs. I am hoping to help reform a part of a system within mental health to help to address issues with this form of treatment.

Above all I would like to know how urgent you think a publication on this subject is needed! Also I am interested to hear from users whom get benefits from anti-psychotic medication to treat their condition and their feeling on this matter.

Best of health and thanks for reading.
 
I can't contribute too much since I was very fortunate to not be force fed shit like Thorazine when I was a kid, but I think a publication on this topic would be extremely helpful. The dangers of these drugs are pretty understated, to say the least. Being thrown Seroquel for a sleep disorder or general anxiety is downright criminal. APs faced a bit of scrutiny as early as the 60s, since Haldol and Thorazine were basically seen as chemical straightjackets meant to quiet the crazies up and sedate them just to make them easier to be around. This applies to more than just APs, but in the US there seems to be a huge trend of having medicate children for everything. I mention kids because from what I've seen, it's mostly younger people and teens that are being scripted this crap for "behaviorial issues". Wow, your teen is crazy and full of angst? You don't fucking say.

At the same time though, you can't overlook the fact that no matter how terrible these meds are, they do save lives when it comes to schizophrenia and treatment resistance manic depression. They are certainly beneficial, but also taken way too lightly considering what the side effects are. Phenothiazines are among the most side effect heavy class of drugs known to mankind. Nowadays the phenothiazines have been replaced by Abilify and risperdal and shit, but they are all really the same. They are dopamine antagonists. Downers in the truest sense of the slang term.
 
Thanks for your reply. Phenothiazines is something I haven't looked at yet but I will certainly check them out. Im assuming they are from the typical AP class? I will be tackling the ethics the use of certain drugs, particulary Olanzapine because of its highly sedating nature.

I can testify that APs are helpful in treatment of psychosis and agree they can be life savers. In fact for drug spiking and lsd overdoses they are critical for use in hospitals.

Have you been treated with APs before? From your perspective of Anti psychotic perscription used in the US, how do you see the future for young people today? Are you a US citizen?
 
Never been treated or took an AP before for any reason. US citizen.

As far as the future for young people today goes, I think it all really depends on people's perspective of what constitutes a mental disorder and what truly needs to be medicated. I don't have any figures or evidence to back this up so don't ask me, but I think that anecdotally, there has been a trend of people, especially younger and younger being over medicated for "diseases" that may not even exist. Reversing this trend would be a great idea because we really don't need a generation addicted to SSRI's, AAPs, and benzodiazepines to compensate for shitty parenting. If you go to any psych nowadays and say that you've been feeling under the weather lately, they are very likely to simply throw one of those three at you and then send you on your way. No other country on earth gobbles up as many pills as we do; so how come countries that are generally worse off than us as far as standard of living goes aren't being medicated?
 
Effectively meds or no meds is a stand point point UK G.Ps and Psychiatrist's try to implement certainly from experience of talking to a few. By all means ones who try to avoid prescription is good thing. I think half the problem rests in what you have stated about medication use becoming an epidemic among people and the other half is how their use is actually being monitored towards achieving recovery and how the problem is dealt with or without medication. It would seem again that treating people with medication is cheaper than talking therapy. This goes for people of all ages other than young people. If poor parenting can be attributed to mental health issues which can lead their child onto treatments, then what can be said about mental conditions that aren't? It's situations like this that are breeding a host of blame and stigma towards groups of people connected to mental health sufferers that could be having deeper negative impacts in society than we may realize. It is obvious that bringing up a child today is hard enough but a child's behavior or condition could be attributed to other causes unrelated to parenting.

My partner has relatives in the US whom have had experiences of systems in child care that are quick to label and diagnose child with disorders that may not fit with what is considered normal so it is easier for other to accept. Granted a child may have learning or behavioral problems that could be of concern. The attitudes and perceptions of others change everything here especially if medication is introduced early on. What is interesting is the correlation between overlooked immune disorders and mental illness. Wither this is widely known but unaccepted is interesting but its hard to ignore environmental impacts are having on people health. This is something I have come across in the research that relates to myself and others including my partner. It may not be the whole picture but there is good evidence for it but will be a core part of the publication. This is a reason why I have posted in the healthy living section is that by accident the work has become a health book alongside a withdrawal plan and recovery guide.

It is interesting to get a view point from the States because from what I read and see US citizens with Mental Health problems as well as any form of help care get a raw deal with health cover. It's worth noting that the NHS in the UK although not perfect has it's plus points. However the mental health side is in taters with people trying to seek alternative help to the dismay that it is not cheap. I read some good stories in America that help with detox programs. Again although a lot are not cheap there seems to be more action being taken to deal with a serious situation I feel it is systems like this that need to be incorporated into main care in our systems.

Although insight is something that is introduced to mental health sufferers to help look into the problems they have, there is still a tremendous amount of pressure on people to get by on medications that are in my opinion causing a whole new set of mental problems on top of the original illness. Eating, sleeping disorders, stigma with employeers and fear of disclosure that my lead to redundency and homelessness.
 
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I'm happy to see other people as concerned with the state of antipsychotic prescribing habits/use as I am. I think your work on publishing something of a guide for AP withdrawal could not come soon enough what with how AP prescriptions are being handed out like nobody's business - more people are taking them now than ever before and certainly that means more people are trying to quit. Perhaps even more important, in my opinion, is educating the public about the severe risks associated with APs, because the world seems to have forgotten. Atypicals were hailed for their reduced side effect profile when they were first developed, but the fact is that they only look good when compared to 1st gen typicals... compared to other common Rx medications AAP's seem like poison. Their use in place of benzodiazepines and z-drugs like Ambien (zolpidem) is particularly disturbing because their side effect profiles are brutal in comparison and contrary to popular belief, I believe APs can be just as (or nearly as) addictive as benzos.

Anyways, my point was that prescribers are well aware of these issues but seemingly disregard their severity and don't always pass those risks on to their patients. And non-patient consumption is even an issue now; these people are arguably the least educated on the risks of them all: I see posts on Bluelight about people using APs (almost exclusively quetiapine/Seroquel) for stimulant comedowns or just for fun, sometimes insufflating it. There's even an illegal market for it in some locations across the US. The thought literally makes me shudder.

Ironically, I take quetiapine daily to treat type 1 bipolar disorder. I was first introduced to it in the hospital during a severe manic episode and it was a godsend. I now use it in conjunction with lamotrigine and lithium, incidental clonazepam, etc. to manage symptoms and have been relatively stable for ~2 years. That said, I'll testify to its addiction potential - forgetting even 1 dose is an absolute nightmare, I have completely lost the ability to sleep without it. I can't imagine the withdrawals I'd go through if (I suppose it's a matter of when, not if) I were to quit. Miraculously I have almost no side effects from it, but I get labs done every 2 months to ensure that remains the case, and my psychiatrist claims she's never had a patient respond to and tolerate quetiapine as well as I have.
 
First all im glad your combination of medication is working for you. In terms of side effects im sure your doctor thinks that you qualify to be in a medical journal for that one :) But the main thing is it works which is something I stand by.

I glad that you think a guide is needed. Hopefully it can deliver a good protocol for a wide range of people, especially those that take multiple medication. I myself take Lamotrigine and it has been very effective at helping my depression more than any drug I have taken with only a few mild side effects that arent worth a mention. Lamotrigine isnt something most people can take because of a deadly reaction it can have when started however it helps me.

However when it comes to anti psychotics I see a major pattern with people that they are very hard to come off even if their symptoms arent severe. In effect it is a dependance that parades as an addiction.
Im shocked to learn that anti psychotic use in people has led to a black market demand. I guess the only uses they would serve would be to eliminate the effects of drug induced psychosis from psychadelic drugs and tranquillizer withdrawal. Thats very messed up I may look into thay in a further study.
I hear your pain of Seroquel. I too remember how bad missing one dose could be. It could mess you up for a week. It was however one of the easiest of the lot to withdraw from. Thats not to say it wasnt pretty.
 
I am going to recommend a couple of websites for you if you have not already encountered them:

The Icarus Project by and for people that experience extreme states. They have one of the only harm reduction guides to coming off pysch meds safely so their members would be a good resource. http://theicarusproject.net/

Also, The Foundation for Excellence in Mental Health may have some good resources for you.

I will post a link to this over in Mental Health as well.
 
I am in the process of stopping my AP. I started lowering my dose about a year ago but committed to stopping last october. I was on 20 mg of olanzapine since early 2012 for treatment resistant bipolar depression. By october, I was down to 10. In January I switched to 100 mg of seroquel. I still take 50 mg of seroquel or so, sometimes more or less, depending on how much I want to sleep. The withdrawal has basically destroyed my mind. I talk to myself, I swear out loud in public places. I have severe mania and depression still, although prior to olanzapine, I had no manic episodes only hypo-mania. I guess it is improving, but I feel destroyed, madness doesn't quite describe it. I am quite familiar with opiate and benzo withdrawal, but this wd was beyond anything I have ever experienced and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

I had very little professional help and had very little guidance on the subject. As far as coping, I use alcohol, weed, and rarely phenibut. Nothing really helps it, I am almost ready to give up on it all. Some people report minimal withdrawal but not for me. It seems what helped the most for a time, has hurt me the most. I still am quite sketchy, and have frequent bouts of paranoia, anxiety, and terrible depression. I had depression before, but what I have now is far beyond something simple like depression or mania. I still feel the withdrawal but I am getting used to it, after all it's been going for a solid 9 months. I have found some support here at BL, which is I why I joined. Not sure what you are looking for but feel free to send me a PM if you have any questions.
 
Im sorry to hear withdrawal has been a difficult time for you. I think anyone will tell you that alcohol and weed are not good for your mind anyway as paranoia is common with their use. Anti depressants still help me and I have to take it to stay well. Btw coming off olanzapine and dealing with the after effects took me a long time. It is by far the hardest ap to come off for reasons I discovered so the fact youve done that is an epic achievement in itself. Obviously i cant go into all the methods here but cutting out all alcohol and drugs is going to be a big step in the right direction. I to did not have any help with withdrawal. The fact is no one really does. This is why I am trying to put together a guide to hopefully help others.
 
The icarus project was incredibly helpful to me in withdrawal as it gave some good understanding of the effects of medication. I shall definitely look at contacting them both to further my work thank you.
 
Hypnagog said:
Im sorry to hear withdrawal has been a difficult time for you. I think anyone will tell you that alcohol and weed are not good for your mind anyway as paranoia is common with their use. Anti depressants still help me and I have to take it to stay well. Btw coming off olanzapine and dealing with the after effects took me a long time. It is by far the hardest ap to come off for reasons I discovered so the fact youve done that is an epic achievement in itself. Obviously i cant go into all the methods here but cutting out all alcohol and drugs is going to be a big step in the right direction. I to did not have any help with withdrawal. The fact is no one really does. This is why I am trying to put together a guide to hopefully help others.
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Yeah, I get where you are coming from. The weed is hit or miss as far as helping, I don't use it that much. Don't drink a lot but I would have killed myself by now if I didn't have something to make me feel a bit better. Alcohol is mainly just convenient for me. I still take neurontin too. It pains me that I have another wd after this one. I don't have many wds left in me after this.
 
These drugs (A Typical anti psychotics) are life wreckers. The side effects for all users outweigh the benefits. The medical establishment likes them because they are psychologically non addictive. This is because they make you feel horrible. Who wants to feel like that. No wonder people want to wander off their meds. I was on 400mg of Seroquel to sleep. I quit cold turkey as my life was collapsing around me because of it. I was given them for PTSD. They made the nightmares worse. The sleep is shallow and does not give you real rest. They caused massive weight gain and tipped my A1C to almost diabetic levels even with two hours a day in the gym. When I came off I was not sure I could make it. The mental turmoil and disorientation is hard to describe. Picture taking 80mg of Valium a day for 2 years and then quitting cold turkey (I have). THIS IS 5X AS BAD. I am tough as nails but had to resort to gabapentin to make it through the pain and anquish. I had spacial orientation issues, muscle twitches, depression, vision disturbances, tachycardia, diarrhea, panic attacks and more . These drugs out to be classified with frontal lobotomies. They create fat zombies who collect disability. They are so hard to come off of it defies description Now if you want to know what I really think?
 
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Yeah, I smoke ciggarettes so Im not the greatest advocate about stimultants. Everyone has a vice but I would definitely quit weed. If you are in a depressed state that stuff is going to play on your mind.

I wouldn't withdraw yet if I was you, give yourself plenty of time to recover first. Get yourself together. It has taken me three years to tackle withdraw. It wasnt smooth but it can done. 100mg of seroquel is considered to be an anti depressant dose so might help your moods a bit. Thing is even though you are on seroquel you may still be having withdrawal effects of Olanzapine which is why you probably feel like doom.

Seroquel can be tough to reduce but its nowhere near as bad to come off as olanzapine.

I have no idea about Neurontin about but from what Ive read it sounds like a requirement rather than an addiction.
 
Withdrawing from 80 mg of valium of cold turkey is not good. It took me 7 months to taper from 11mg and that was too quick for me. I was going by doctors orders for thay one.

Im surprised you didnt die from a massive seizure as it is impossible to recover from benzo abrupt discintinuation. Its probably why you were given seroquel and an anti convulsant to stop the seizures.

Believe me Benzo withdrawal is severly underestimated. In comparison to heroin withdrawal it is worse according to ex addicts. It can break the toughest of people.

On top of that you have had seroquel withdrawal. Tbh, things dont get worse than what youve experienced.
 
I was not super clear I came off the Valium years ago. I didn't seize which was pure luck. I took seroquel next which I needed 400mg to sleep. I lost any value of life in it. The withdrawal coming off left me thinking I might die. I was a corpsman so I am a lack humility with drugs and did not check myself in but it was horrible....
 
Sorry to hear that. Seroquel isnt nice and seems to be the one that has the worst physical effects. Ill tell you for free I wasnt on it for long. It caused my resting pulse to sit around 90bpm compared to my normal 60 and made me extremely dizzy. Even walking was a huge task breaking out in sweats randomly and feeling like I was going to go into seizure. I also experienced mild diabetic symptoms which disappeared when I stopped taking it. I was on 600mg but not for long as I chose to stop it slow taper and within four months is was free of it. In fact its probably the best drug to come off as it is easier to break down into smaller bits. Unfortunately four months was too quick as I became ill shortly after. This is where I was put on lorazepam and where my unwitting benzo addiction began.

Its worth adding that no one seems to be immune from AP side effects regardless of how strong a persons mindset is. The thing is people who take APs dont actually realize how strong they actually are. Most people would consider these effects to be a violation of human rights if they understood their true nature better.
 
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