Opioids WTF? Oxycontin generic is real?

[Kittycat5]

Every single "generic" currently available is made by Purdue and exactly identical in every single way to Oxycontin. The reason the FDA says there are no approved generic is because they are all authorized generics which means the brand company still makes them and has a deal with one or more generic companies to distribute it. It usually is a way for the originator to hold on to profits when they are close to or already off patent and the actual generics are either not available or cutting into their sales. The FDA does not consider authorized generics as true generics because since they are still made by the original company, no equivalence tests need to be done but a pharmacist may choose to use one in place of the branded product if it is cheaper for the patient or better financially for the pharmacy.

Any perceived decrease in action is entirely placebo/nocebo. This is a very common practice these days and there is absolutely zero reason to think there can be a hint of the generic being inferior to the brand as they are the same product.

 

[BeachBum4u]

Every single "generic" currently available is made by Purdue and exactly identical in every single way to Oxycontin. The reason the FDA says there are no approved generic is because they are all authorized generics which means the brand company still makes them and has a deal with one or more generic companies to distribute it. It usually is a way for the originator to hold on to profits when they are close to or already off patent and the actual generics are either not available or cutting into their sales. The FDA does not consider authorized generics as true generics because since they are still made by the original company, no equivalence tests need to be done but a pharmacist may choose to use one in place of the branded product if it is cheaper for the patient or better financially for the pharmacy.

Any perceived decrease in action is entirely placebo/nocebo. This is a very common practice these days and there is absolutely zero reason to think there can be a hint of the generic being inferior to the brand as they are the same product.

Kitty does this happen often or is the Purdue case a rare instance? I haven't seen anything like it before.

 

[Kittycat5]

All the time. There is a company called Prasco that solely distributes authorized generics. Greenstone, is a division of Pfizer and distributes authorized generics of their drugs. It is both good and bad as it often can provide cost savings to patients before generics are officially available but also negatively impacts competition and thus savings from generics, as well.

 

[ColoradoBoy90]

But... The brand bottle says "made by PURDUE" and generics read Teva Pharma.

The generic bottles read "generic, made by Teva" and there is another major generic company who makes them. I heard there are a few other major Generic companies who make them. Activas is one.

So you're saying Purdue makes them, even though the generic bottle reads made by Teva pharma?? Unless they are all merged I don't get it. Even if Purdue pharma authorized Teva and Activas to make generic OP's on "their behalf" surely Teva or Activas makes them slightly differently, especially in the fillers area. As it's unlikely a rival company making generics has 100% the same fillers and everything to the T as the Brand name. Otherwise they wouldn't generics and wouldn't be made by other companies other then Purdue.

I believe another generic reads "made by Activas" which merged with Watson, not Purdue...? So I'm confused how that works. I see what your saying but the bottles the inserts clearly say they are made by other companies and are generics, not related to Purdue.

I believe one pharmacy on the insert/medication guide instructions it showed the inactive ingridents on the generics for oxy and they do not match the Brand name insert for oxy... So that alone shows they aren't the same. I would have to find that insert again to confirm this but I believe I checked it when I started to notice a difference, and Teva made generics or OxyContin was not the same..

And I don't see how placebo it can be when I tested to rule that out. From what I understand from what you said: Purdue has allowed other companies to make a generic, while still keeping the brand patent -- and that the generics are also made by Purdue -- But if that's correct then why do the bottles and inserts read made by by Teva, Activas, or whoever the bottle reads made by. Even the printout says "Teva pharma" and talks about how it's a TEVA made pill, not the brand name Purdue making them. Also if they save money, you can bet the generics have different fillers which can affect some people very differently. Also when asking the pharmacist he said they are generics, and made by a different company as Brand....

 

[P0kemama]

Hi Coloradoboy: I tried to send you a message, but your inbox is full... you may want to delete a few messages.

 

[Kittycat5]

But... The brand bottle says "made by PURDUE" and generics read Teva Pharma.

The generic bottles read "generic, made by Teva" and there is another major generic company who makes them. I heard there are a few other major Generic companies who make them. Activas is one.

So you're saying Purdue makes them, even though the generic bottle reads made by Teva pharma?? Unless they are all merged I don't get it. Even if Purdue pharma authorized Teva and Activas to make generic OP's on "their behalf" surely Teva or Activas makes them slightly differently, especially in the fillers area. As it's unlikely a rival company making generics has 100% the same fillers and everything to the T as the Brand name. Otherwise they wouldn't generics and wouldn't be made by other companies other then Purdue.

I believe another generic reads "made by Activas" which merged with Watson, not Purdue...? So I'm confused how that works. I see what your saying but the bottles the inserts clearly say they are made by other companies and are generics, not related to Purdue.

I believe one pharmacy on the insert/medication guide instructions it showed the inactive ingridents on the generics for oxy and they do not match the Brand name insert for oxy... So that alone shows they aren't the same. I would have to find that insert again to confirm this but I believe I checked it when I started to notice a difference, and Teva made generics or OxyContin was not the same..

And I don't see how placebo it can be when I tested to rule that out. From what I understand from what you said: Purdue has allowed other companies to make a generic, while still keeping the brand patent -- and that the generics are also made by Purdue -- But if that's correct then why do the bottles and inserts read made by by Teva, Activas, or whoever the bottle reads made by. Even the printout says "Teva pharma" and talks about how it's a TEVA made pill, not the brand name Purdue making them. Also if they save money, you can bet the generics have different fillers which can affect some people very differently. Also when asking the pharmacist he said they are generics, and made by a different company as Brand....

They say distributed by Teva or Sandoz or Ranbaxy. It says manufactured by Purdue.

Take a look.

 

[ColoradoBoy90]

Thank you, Kitty! I had never saw that before. Very interesting.

Since the distributor is Teva, but it's made by Purdue, does Teva have the ability to change anything if made by Purdue? Such as fillers? Or no? I know big chain pharmacies will go with the cheapest distributor for a reason, and each one is different. But this seems to be a totally different case. I remember reading something about Purdue being at the head of it all, so now it makes more sense..

But is this similar to Yellow generic Watson norcos vs Brand name Norco? Both where made by Watson, whom made the yellow brand name Norco and the yellow generic. Which confused many, but countless people swear the generic yellow Watson (which Watson also made the brand name Norco) was the best generic. So back a few years ago Watson did the same thing -- made brand name and a generic version. Now the yellow generic has disappears and countless complaints have come up regarding its quality when they swear nothing was changed besides the dye. I believe Watson owned Brand Norco, I could be wrong but I remember reading that somewhere.

I did another test today (couldn't see the bottle of "made by whom" so I didn't know if it was the Teva or Purdue bottle.. And again today I felt cold chills, and it turned out again it was the generic Teva bottle I took. I took the brand Purdue bottle at night at the chills went away... So odd...

 

[Kittycat5]

No, the distributor doesnt change anything as they arent involved in the manufacturing. Its different than the Norco issue as Watson owned and made both, so they could make changes, although I am not sure if they did save the color change. Ive said it before, but will say again here. Take whatever makes you feel best. Even if it is placebo, the effect is real to you.

 

[ColoradoBoy90]

Gotcha makes sense. Thanks for the photo.

I might try a few more times now to see if I still have the same results (knowing that they are both made by Purdue). If knowing they are the same and I still have the same results I'll stick to brand name.

What I found odd and pissed me off the most is generic co-pay was a MORE expensive then brand name. Maybe in time it will go down, or maybe the pharmacy charged me for brand name prize and gave me generic, confusing the two, and maybe my insurance dectible wasn't met. Who knows.

But thanks for the info. And I didn't know my inbox was full, I'll try to delete some and send it again. I have never used it before so no idea how it's full lol.!

 

[Kittycat5]

The deductible may be the reason or some plans will still prefer a brand name over a generic as they receive rebates from the brand companies making it cheaper for them to pay claims. I would ask as while generics are generally more profitable, the patient should come first and charging them more is dumb business.

 

[Batgirl1]

I have found this to be true on my own and it was verified by watching an episode of Dr. OZ. A guest doctor said that the vast majority of generic drugs are just as good as their brand name counterparts. The two exceptions are medications that are used to treat pain and medications used to treat psychiatric illness, particularly the ones that are controlled substances. Just like in this case I'm sure generic Oxycontin sucks, just as generic Xanax sucks.
But be advised of this, sometimes there are 7 grades of quality or more of a generic drug! It all depends upon which supplier the pharmacy uses. For instance, Alprazolam (generic Xanax) comes in different sizes, shapes AND colors of the same exact dosage pill based upon which supplier the pharmacy uses. My pharmacy switched suppliers, and I got a round green pill instead of a blue oval pill that would turn into dust while still kept in the prescription bottle for just 2 weeks. It provided less than half the relief even though it was the same dose. However, I use a small local pharmacy and provide them with almost $50,000 every calendar year and they agreed to switch supplies for me. Using a small privately owned pharmacy is ALWAYS the way to go. Places like Walmart or Rite Aide might be able to provide you with a small discount or "Bonus Rewards" so you can coupons on things like laundry detergent, but they are OVERWORKED, OVERWHELMED, DANGEROUSLY UNEDUCATED AND SOMETIMES USE CASHIERS TO DISPENSE MEDICAL ADVICE! PLUS THEY DON'T VALUE YOUR BUSINESS AS A CUSTOMER SO THEY DON'T CARE IF YOU'RE HAPPY OR EVEN SAFE!
I once was given someone else's medication when I filled a prescription for antibiotics at a chain store. I don't get antibiotics very often so I wasn't familiar with the name or what the pill was supposed to look like. The person's name was pronounced the same as mine, but that person spelled their name differently, had an address near by, but it certainly wasn't min and they were 20 years older than me. I have no idea what the pill was that I was about to pop into my mouth, but thank God I took a second look.

Small pharmacies can be a pain to deal with as well, but they tend to want you to at least be safe as a lawsuit would hurt them. They don't have a legal team on retainer like the chain pharmacies. Also, the usually have to pride themselves on getting to know their consumers and will go out of their way to provide services like free delivery when you're just to sick or the weather prevents you from getting their. They are without a doubt, the lesser of two evils!

 

[ColoradoBoy90]

Good idea. I know OFFICIALLY according to the US Govt, LA times, and NY times generics are NOT EQUAL. I REPEAT: NOT EQUAL. It's proven fact all generic companies have to prove is in ONE test that their generic drug passed. It could have taken them 500 tries, but as long as they pass once that generic is golden and set for life. AND... They are NOT required to be the same. Just bio-equivalent which allows the ACTIVE ingrident to be up to 10% off. And 20% + of - on fillers.
Also, Guess who conducts the testing? That's right, the generic companies provide their own results to the FDA. The FDA doesn't actually test generics themselves, like many think, no, they actually take the generic companies word solely! Anyone who says the FDA tightly controls and monitors generics is delusional and needs medical help ASAP.
You type of people are the ones who put your fingers in your ears when facts are stated and live in la-la land and just can't accept that there is mass corruption. Fact is the FDA doesn't tightly control generics. It's all about money. Shit, there are former generic drug CEO's who now work in the FDA and Vice Versa. You have to be delusional to belief that generics are the same when there is mountains of proof to show otherwise. News articles, court cases, senate hearings, congress hearings, public record knowledge of FDA and drug companies top execs working together, or the former CEO of Teva is now the head of the FDA. Conflict of interest, much? Half or more of all FDA executives, inspectors, employeers have all worked for the drug companies. Not to mention the countless donation money they get. Drug companies have been caught paying off the FDA to get their drug approved/not removed/etc... And no one was charged, just business as usual. Hell, Prozac is a perfect example.

So if a generic company sumbits it's studies that it's generic is BIOEQUIVALENT (within 10% of the active ingrident, including + or - 20% fillers) that's IT, it's approved! It's now a generic!! And again, the generic company gets to do that study themselves. TOTAL conflict of interest, who is going to find faults when studying their own drug? Please.

Even my doctor told me (30+ year Doctor) generics SCARE HIM. He said one generic company was sued and fined for putting CONCRETE as a filler in the medication. They got fined by the FDA, and continued business. He's told me about THOUSANDS of lawsuits that occurred during his time as a doctor (without public knowledge) and the craziest things you could imagine generic medication did. From freaking concrete inside generic pills, to insect killers, you name it all have been used a fillers, often times for decades before they finally get sued. AND, sometimes we don't even know if they are required to remove it.
One company I remember he told me was found to be 70% to 99% less of for active ingridents for rougly 25% of the population! See, they put a certain filler in there, that it basically could NOT be absorbed into the body in 25% of people. Only a small fraction absorbed in the 25% of people, like 10%. It actually was on the market for 9 years before being pulled!! They kept saying the whole "it's in your head" non sense..... And later they where proven so wrong, I wonder how people like that sleep at night. That's why anyone who says "it's in your head" clearly has zero knowledge of what really has been proven in the past, even damn senate hearings on generic drugs, proving it also.

And here's my latest proof:

Normally 5mg Vicodin or Percs stops withdrawal. Everytime. Yet I started on the fake "generic OxyContin".

Well, it reads "20mg Oxycodone ER" on the bottle. So unless they changed the formula (which they claimed they didn't) then we all know OxyContin releases 1/3rd instantly and the remaining over 8-12 hours. Well, I can be in withdrawal and take a 20mg oxycodone with food. That means roughly 6.5mg is releasing instantly. Yet I feel still in withdraw-- badly. Which is impossible, unless the generic is cheap and doesn't contain 100% of the active ingredient. The LA times said the average generic is 4% off on active ingrident, but the fillers is really where the damage is done. Some fillers simply make the drug not absorb properly, reducing its effectiveness to an unknown level!!

So that's clearly only happening because it's generic OxyContin. As 6.5mg would ALWAYS stop withdrawals, as I stated above normally 5mg stops it, so a higher dosage surely would. Yet from generic it won't. Yup. I tried the same with a 20mg brand and it stops WD. Isn't that odd?
Yet everyday for a month I went through WD on generics...

 

[kleinerkiffer]

SOrry, but generica discussion is not allowed, closed