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Bupe would tramadol be an effective way to end my sub taper?

Princess_Poppy

Princess_Poppy

Bluelighter
Joined
Oct 5, 2009
Messages
217
Location
Atlanta, GA
I've come off suboxone once before. i did it without comfort meds. it was hell, but i can do it if necessary. last time i went from yrs on methadone to subs for a few months before i jumped. so the situation was worse. this time I'm going from a hefty dope habit to using subs for the past 6 mos. I'm currently at 2mg.

i have 20 50mg ultram from a car accident a while back. i had no use for them then, clearly.

i don't need advice on tapering. just the tramadol. i haven't had use for such a mild opiate in a lonnnng time ;) maybe some advice about what amount would provide relief without causing a problem of its own?

hope its ok i didn't use the mega thread since its more about tramadol.
 
400mg?! like i said i dont know anything about tramadol... i was hoping that one of the 50mg pills would ease wd symtoms. I'm not trying to get high. i know how to do that JUST FINE. i would like info about using as a tool for ending my taper, or if i should even bother.

edit: now i see. i asked about "what amount could cause a problem." i mean how long could i use it without incurring wds from it.
 
so i just did some research and it is ALL over the place :( so i NEED to take upwards of the max dose to stave wds? or is that addicts being addicts? apparently this wd sucks pretty bad too so i want to avoid that... oh and i could use it WHILE ON subs if needed (if i wanted to make it to the 24 hr mark w/o redosing)? not to mention i may not even like it/might not work for me? i knew i did the right thing asking here... anyone?
 
I guess that 50 or maybe 100mg would help you a little bit with WD-symptoms but at the same time it will prolong the withdrawl and affect your serotonine levels negatively since it acts as an SNRI. And I think this would make the following days harder because it can cause depression and lethargy by itself, which you already experience during an opioid WD so it could lead to feel even more miserable.

I would only take it if really necessary. Better look into Gabapentin as a WD-aid for a short time. Good luck!

€: No you don't need to take that much to reduce WD! High doses of Tramadol can cause seizures.
 
I would say cutting down lower than 2 mg, much lower like .25 mg a day, then not using anymore opiates. If you really want to be completely clean, that is a better option than substituting with another addictive drug from the same class.
 
sorry whosa, i appreciate the info. i understand the forum is for hr. also, i wouldn't bother posting here except there is so little (good) info about whether tramadol is effective for wds. i know there are people here that have knowledge. i used other drugs bc the bupe megathread is here...

rtrain, I'm not planning to jump now. i tapered to .125 before my last jump and still had terrible wds. i just want to see if i can use something for BAD days (like when you haven't slept for 3 days straight).

i will have to look into gabapentin. my bf, whose also on subs had mentioned thats the wd aid he would use.
 
Whosajiggawaaa said:
I was telling you not to go over that limit FOR THE DAY, its very easy to do. Harm reduction, is that even the sites goal anymore/ever?
Click to expand...

It's not always B/W what HR is, and people disagree on how far it goes.
Personally I agree with you. Princess, you should be fine taking some if it helps you with w/ds, I would just say don't get any more until you're safely clean.
And no reason not to get a little lower on the subs before you quit, it'll only help. (as long as you don't have a deadline for being off them--better to do it right and succeed than do it fast and fail)
 
Wow, even at .125 it was difficult? edit: I'd imagine some issues at that mark, but even 50 mg of tramadol might produced stronger effects than .125 mg of bupe. If you are down to around .125 mg then its hard to imagine its a good idea to use any opiate/opioid to deal with withdrawals. You are basically just spinning your wheels if you do that, as you are just delaying the full healing of the opiate receptors. As a matter of fact, wikipedia's opiate equianalgesic conversion chart shows 50 mg of Tramadol = .125 mg of buprenorphine.

I think you would be better off with the Gabapentin than Tramadol. I have no personal experience with Gabapenetin, from what I've read tolerance goes up real quick and the beneficial effects can quickly fade away, so definitely do the best to use it sparingly so it helps as much as possible when you really need it.
 
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hell yeah it was hard. i didn't expect it either. although, that taper was less planned, and done quickly. i was at an uber low dose for a week before jumping though. i hate making it sound scary though. as anyone who has done it will agree, its not like a full agonist wd. its nagging, and goes on FOREVER. i was still having sneezing fits 3 mos later. not being able to sleep is the worst though. i would go 72 hrs and then get 4 hrs of sleep. i just don't want that again. I'm dealing with some pretty major crap right now and can't afford to be in that condition.

i know someone will tell me this is a bad time for a taper. I'm aware. I'm willing to put the brakes on if problems arise.
 
You'll always find some reason it's a "bad time." But if you make now YOUR TIME then you can succeed. Doing a long taper might prolong the existence of discomfort but it will decrease the severity of such, but if you add Gabapentin as others have suggested it will help.
 
Princess_Poppy said:
hell yeah it was hard. i didn't expect it either. although, that taper was less planned, and done quickly. i was at an uber low dose for a week before jumping though. i hate making it sound scary though. as anyone who has done it will agree, its not like a full agonist wd. its nagging, and goes on FOREVER. i was still having sneezing fits 3 mos later. not being able to sleep is the worst though. i would go 72 hrs and then get 4 hrs of sleep. i just don't want that again. I'm dealing with some pretty major crap right now and can't afford to be in that condition.

i know someone will tell me this is a bad time for a taper. I'm aware. I'm willing to put the brakes on if problems arise.
Click to expand...

Wow, thats what scares me about Subs and the reason everytime I have used them I either tapered quickly or relapsed to my DOC. You could say the former happened much fewer times than the later, as I only successfully tapered off once. I was on for around 6 weeks and jumped @ around .1 mg a day. I honestly did not even feel it when I jumped. I had done a reduction down to 75% of the previous dose every 3-4 days, but I only started @ 2 mg.
 
it always gets scary for me when i'm about to jump, and i end up just getting another 8mg or relapsing. i've gotten completely off a number of times, but it seems like i'm never fully mentally prepared.
 
don't be skeered rtrain! i was on methadone maintenance for a while before i got off subs last time. I'm sure it had a lot to do w/ it. i was a dummy too. i didn't have a script for it last time, so i got forced to ration prematurely. i cut my doses as much as 50% when i went down. i was only on 1 mg and less the last couple weeks of tapering. it sounds like you take your time!
 
^Well I am going back to Suboxone tomorrow, just did the last of my heroin, *unhappy face*

How gradual was your taper? The 1 time I successfully tapered down I was doing 3, maybe 4 days at a dose and dropping. It took almost 2 weeks of being stabilized before I started the taper. Something along the lines of that. Started at 2 so then 1.5, 1.2, 1, .75, .5, .4, .3, .25, .2, .15. .1 and jump! (edit: Should note I probably was using around 4 mg for the first few days, then once my body adjusts I am able to drop to 2 mg a day with no problems) I shot for around a 75% reduction, but that doesn't always come out to a even #, so if it didn't I'd do whatever was closest to 75%, but not lower than it.

I was on oxycodone prior to that for around 1.5 years, but had a cold turkeyed it a few times so wasn't addicted the while 1.5 years, probably around 4/5th's of the time.. Probably taking around 200-300 mg when I stopped to use the Subs that time.
 
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i wish i could tell you EXACTLY. it was probably similar to yours, but i didn't keep a journal or anything.

an update for this time though. i dropped to 1 mg day before yesterday and got really sick. i went straight from 2 to 1 though. i have the generic tabs so its not as easy. i decided to give the tram a shot before bed last night, to get me through today. it DEF works. i took 100 mg. i didn't have to take subs today, but i chose to. i don't want the halflife to catch up to me later. so it def helps. just shouldn't make a habit of it.

the buzz is weird huh? i get the snri thing. it reminded me of the zoloft i used to take. i get noticable empathetic effects, like the come up of a roll, from drugs of this nature. i had mild visual disturbances. didnt remind me of opiates at all.
 
^Lot of people seem to like taking them with Subs. It probably still blocks the opiate effects but the SNRI effects are felt, so if that is a desired effect then I could see people liking the combo of them and Subs.
 
Ending your taper is a good way to end your taper. There will be some discomfort, that is part of coming off of opiates. Do not take something that will just prolong your pain. Step your bupe dose as low as possible. DO NOT add another opiate on top of it. This is a terrible idea.
 
euphoric i feel ya. i do. as long as I'm CAREFUL i don't see a huge prob though. tram has such a short halflife. I'm living with/taking care of my dad who has terminal cancer. i can't afford to be uber sick. the only reason I'm considering continuing the taper is bc I'm already down to 1 mg.

its unlikely taking an occasional 50 mg of tram will screw me up. there's no dope here, and id NEVER steal from my dad. doesn't seem like a terrible time in that regard. I'm relapse proof.... well, this is s. fla. maybe I'm being cocky O_o
 
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