Stimulants Would 4-FA be useful for me?

[AA357]

Hi,

I'd like to start off by saying that I don't use stimulants recreationally. I like to use them once in a while in low-moderate doses for general performance enhancement (going to the gym and basically just getting shit done).

Caffeine is too jittery; ephedrine is horrible and I don't care much for amphetamine. Methamphetamine (20-30mg orally) tops them all... I'm pretty sure this is because meth is an SRA. It's not something I would want to take a high dose of, but it feels really smooth and the euphoria is a very pleasant side effect.
Only problem is the ridiculous tolerance that develops with meth... I was taking it ONCE a week on Saturday morning and by the time I ran out (after about 3 months), it was starting to feel a lot weaker. Realistically it's not something I could take more than twice a month, which is a major downside.

Really I want 4-MAR but can't find it anywhere. I've been reading about 4-FA and it sounds very interesting. It seems to be less neurotoxic than methamphetamine or MDMA, and being an SRA I imagine it feels smooth and euphoric.

I tried ~120mg MDMA (twice) basically expecting it to feel like meth but with a bit less stimulation and more euphoria. Boy was I wrong... that stuff fucked me up WAY more than I was anticipating. Both those days all my plans went straight to hell. MDMA is just weird - I can't compare it to any other drug I've ever taken. All I want to do on that shit is chill out on the couch with my eyes closed listening to music and go out for the occasional joint.

So what's 4-FA like? I've read a lot of reports that say it feels "somewhere between speed and MDMA"... what does this mean for someone like me? How effective is it as a stimulant/performance enhancing drug? Can you still function normally on it or does it get you mangled like MDMA?

Thanks.

 

[InterestingFACT]

Hi,

I'd like to start off by saying that I don't use stimulants recreationally. I like to use them once in a while in low-moderate doses for general performance enhancement (going to the gym and basically just getting shit done).

Caffeine is too jittery; ephedrine is horrible and I don't care much for amphetamine. Methamphetamine (20-30mg orally) tops them all... I'm pretty sure this is because meth is an SRA. It's not something I would want to take a high dose of, but it feels really smooth and the euphoria is a very pleasant side effect.
Only problem is the ridiculous tolerance that develops with meth... I was taking it ONCE a week on Saturday morning and by the time I ran out (after about 3 months), it was starting to feel a lot weaker. Realistically it's not something I could take more than twice a month, which is a major downside.

Really I want 4-MAR but can't find it anywhere. I've been reading about 4-FA and it sounds very interesting. It seems to be less neurotoxic than methamphetamine or MDMA, and being an SRA I imagine it feels smooth and euphoric.

I tried ~120mg MDMA (twice) basically expecting it to feel like meth but with a bit less stimulation and more euphoria. Boy was I wrong... that stuff fucked me up WAY more than I was anticipating. Both those days all my plans went straight to hell. MDMA is just weird - I can't compare it to any other drug I've ever taken. All I want to do on that shit is chill out on the couch with my eyes closed listening to music and go out for the occasional joint.

So what's 4-FA like? I've read a lot of reports that say it feels "somewhere between speed and MDMA"... what does this mean for someone like me? How effective is it as a stimulant/performance enhancing drug? Can you still function normally on it or does it get you mangled like MDMA?

Thanks.

I don't understand why people keep wondering about using 4-FA functionally. Sure, you might be able to do so but there's literally no reason to when there are multiple other fluorinated amphetamines which are much better suited for that task. Look into 2-FA, 3-FA, and 2-FMA.

Long term use of any serotonin releasing substance is probably not very good for your brain, but even setting aside the possibility of damage, I personally think the serotonergic action of 4-FA would be counterproductive to any functional usage. It makes you want to go chat people up rather than "get shit done." Of course your mileage may vary, so give it a shot if you like. I would never for a moment consider using it functionally... but take into account that I probably have a much larger degree of tolerance to its dopaminergic effects than to its serotonergic effects, so my perception of its character could be substantially different from your own. But I actually found it sedating at high doses--much akin to how you describe MDMA.

 

[mike.vick]

No dude! all the halogenated amphetamines - 4-fa -cause brain and nervous system damage and abberations intrinsically! - Take it from me dude don't do it! Get a better hobby Choose life

BTW meth is fucking horrendous, if you've ever experienced anything nice in life

 

[Burnt Offerings]

Well I'll offer a dissenting view: I actually think that 4-FA is a great functional stimulant. You can get the euphoria when taking higher doses (if that's what you're after, but it seems like that's not what you're after...) but lower doses yield a smooth amphetamine come-up and an equally smooth come-down. I've found it to be quite useful for studying. YMMV.

 

[mike.vick]

^^^ killing yourself to live!!!

 

[AA357]

No dude! all the halogenated amphetamines - 4-fa -cause brain and nervous system damage and abberations intrinsically! - Take it from me dude don't do it! Get a better hobby Choose life

BTW meth is fucking horrendous, if you've ever experienced anything nice in life

^^^ killing yourself to live!!!

Dude. GTFO my thread unless you're going to post something valid/scientific. You're not on my level.

Oh and stop fucking arguing with me and talking to me like I'm some sort of tweaker.
1) Meth is way better than any other stimulant I've ever taken in every way except for the tolerance build-up and toxicity.
2) Stims have no recreational value to me. If I wanna get high I'll pop a couple of Valiums or take some psychedelics. I don't use stims the way most people on here do.

 

[m060mm]

It sounds like you know enough to know the damage done by such similar choices as meth and 4-FA is going to be marginally different.

That said, 4-FA is messy as hell. Worst I've tried, but I entered the RC scene early and exited when the good shit was unavailable.

Don't settle. If you're going to be dependent, do damage, etc at least make the best choice. Meth, you know what you're getting and most people agree that's good.

Look at how many people are dissatisfied, in contrast, with 4-FA. It seems like you're decided, so go ahead, but if you're like most people, you'll feel it was a waste of money.

You even said yourself, you don't like stimulants. You won't tolerate 4-FA well. High incidence of aide effects even at low doses.

 

[m060mm]

Dude. GTFO my thread unless you're going to post something valid/scientific. You're not on my
2) Stims have no recreational value to me. If I wanna get high I'll pop a couple of Valiums or take some psychedelics. I don't use stims the way most people on here do.

If I would have read that first, I wouldn't have typed all that on a tablet. You're high strung as it is. And judgemental as fuck in my opinion. You don't know 'most people' on Bluelight.

 

[cybergollum]

Well I'll offer a dissenting view: I actually think that 4-FA is a great functional stimulant. You can get the euphoria when taking higher doses (if that's what you're after, but it seems like that's not what you're after...) but lower doses yield a smooth amphetamine come-up and an equally smooth come-down. I've found it to be quite useful for studying. YMMV.

What exact doses do you mean by 'higher' and 'lower' (from your experience)?

 

[AA357]

I don't understand why people keep wondering about using 4-FA functionally. Sure, you might be able to do so but there's literally no reason to when there are multiple other fluorinated amphetamines which are much better suited for that task. Look into 2-FA, 3-FA, and 2-FMA.

Long term use of any serotonin releasing substance is probably not very good for your brain, but even setting aside the possibility of damage, I personally think the serotonergic action of 4-FA would be counterproductive to any functional usage. It makes you want to go chat people up rather than "get shit done." Of course your mileage may vary, so give it a shot if you like. I would never for a moment consider using it functionally... but take into account that I probably have a much larger degree of tolerance to its dopaminergic effects than to its serotonergic effects, so my perception of its character could be substantially different from your own. But I actually found it sedating at high doses--much akin to how you describe MDMA.

Thanks for your input.
Have you ever tried methamphetamine or MDMA before? I really like the serotonergic component of meth. With MDMA it's way too much.

Basically I'm looking for something that will affect me the way I was expecting MDMA to affect me (read my first post), if such a drug exists.

It sounds like you know enough to know the damage done by such similar choices as meth and 4-FA is going to be marginally different.

From what I've read; it doesn't seem to be anywhere near as toxic as the other halogenated amphetamines.

That said, 4-FA is messy as hell. Worst I've tried, but I entered the RC scene early and exited when the good shit was unavailable.

Does it compare to anything else you've tried?

Don't settle. If you're going to be dependent, do damage, etc at least make the best choice. Meth, you know what you're getting and most people agree that's good.

Like I said: what puts me off meth is the fact that I worked up a tolerance after just 3 months of once-weekly usage. I never had this problem back when I was dabbling in ephedrine and amphetamine (which I was able to use twice a week).
Dependence ain't gonna happen.

Look at how many people are dissatisfied, in contrast, with 4-FA. It seems like you're decided, so go ahead, but if you're like most people, you'll feel it was a waste of money.

You even said yourself, you don't like stimulants. You won't tolerate 4-FA well. High incidence of aide effects even at low doses.

Maybe I'll just get a couple of doses to start with to see if I like it.

If I would have read that first, I wouldn't have typed all that on a tablet. You're high strung as it is.

Well shit... you see why I don't find recreational value or addiction potential in stimulants???

And judgemental as fuck in my opinion. You don't know 'most people' on Bluelight.

His reply was patronizing, emotional and devoid of any helpful information.
I posted a thread about my low-dose oral meth use months ago. Nearly everybody who replied told me it was impossible to keep it up and that I was going to end up getting addicted... kept getting told "that's how it starts", "it's a slippery slope" and similar crap. Turned out to be a complete load of BS.
I want intelligent discussion about its pharmacology and effects, and how it compares to other amphetamines (in particular amphetamine, methamphetamine and MDMA). I don't need a "drugs are bad" lecture and I'm sick of people questioning my self-control.

 

[mike.vick]

Meth is a really shitty drug, there is no other way to describe. The one time I took Meth- I felt a small ten min rush, then I stayed up all night paranoid. I had to drink an entire liter of liquor to get to sleep at 5am.
It's as worse as anything bad I've ever had.
If you want a study-aid, Modifinil is impossible not to study on 1/4 a pill because it makes you a nervous wreck if you aren't always doing something. It also has almost no addiction potential.
Caffeine is the only truly useful stimulant with benign side effects.
I believe if you are living a healthy lifestyle of diet and exercise, your exogenous catecholamine system will take care of you, allowing you to have focus and drive that is greater than achieved by any stimulant regimen.

 

[Burnt Offerings]

What exact doses do you mean by 'higher' and 'lower' (from your experience)?

20 mgs taken orally is pretty low-key IME.

Stimulants seem to affect me differently than some other people, though. Like methamphetamine, for example...whenever I rail meth I just get "wakeful lethargy", kind of like how the OP described MDMA, in which I just sit on a couch and absent mindedly search the web on my mobile phone. It can be used to focus, though, just like all stims in my opinion. They just provide the wakefulness component (and perhaps focus, for individuals taking stimulants as part of a medical regiment), it's up to the individual user's willpower, motivation, reasons for usage etc to gain any real benefits from the drug.

 

[AA357]

Meth is a really shitty drug, there is no other way to describe. The one time I took Meth- I felt a small ten min rush, then I stayed up all night paranoid. I had to drink an entire liter of liquor to get to sleep at 5am.
It's as worse as anything bad I've ever had.

Well I get a pleasant stimulation that lasts 8-10 hours and wears off gently. If I take it in the morning I never have problems getting to sleep.

If you want a study-aid, Modifinil is impossible not to study on 1/4 a pill because it makes you a nervous wreck if you aren't always doing something.

Wrong. I have a shitload of that stuff and it's really good... it does exactly what it says on the box. But sometimes I like something with a bit of a kick to it.

Caffeine is the only truly useful stimulant with benign side effects.

I'm a lover of strong coffee. I've been addicted to caffeine for about 13 years. It's alright but in high amounts it feels nasty and causes hypertension.

I believe if you are living a healthy lifestyle of diet and exercise, your exogenous catecholamine system will take care of you, allowing you to have focus and drive that is greater than achieved by any stimulant regimen.

I'm an athlete and I go to the gym quite a bit. I eat pretty healthy as well and take various supplements.

Seriously, don't argue with me. I'm not some kind of stim junkie, I just like the occasional kick up the ass. I've been doing this kind of shit for about 10 years and I've never run into any problems with stims.

I'm asking: given the way I respond to methamphetamine and MDMA, would 4-FA be useful for me? Remember that everybody is different... I'm sorry but I really couldn't care whether or not you like meth.

 

[mike.vick]

I have answered your question: No, 4-fa is not useful to you or anyone. It is intrinsically harmful if ingested and acts as a neurotoxin, causes gi disturbances, as does all halogenated amphetamine substances. You will have less neurotransmitter release with 4-fa than with meth. But with equal are greater disturbances as with meth, except regarding hyper-excitability induced psychotic states induced by meth that will be greater in meth because of the neurotransmitter release.

This isn't an exhaustive list of physical problems but it should be enough to warn.

Hows that buckaroo?

 

[SixBuckets]

I don't think anything sounds unusual about how you respond to methamphetamine? Am I missing something?

I'm not familiar with 4-FA, but it kind of sounds like you're comparing your meth experience to some sort of junkie stereotype and thinking the lack of common ground means you're unusual.

 

[MedicinalHeroin]

4-FA is pretty great. At 150mg it gave me an almost MDMA-like roll (at least for the first couple hours) which was great to party on. At 30mg, it felt less tunnel-vision and amphy than 20mg Adderall, but it did increase my focus and attention while also giving me enough seretonin release to literally laugh out loud every 10 minutes or so for absolutely no reason, which makes me think itd be perfect for working as a retail cashier or something. Plus the shit is cheap as FUCK.

However, because it releases seretonin, I wouldnt recommend it as a substance to take to "get shit done" even if it is in low doses. Look to 2-FA, 2-FMA, or maybe Ethylphenidate for your needs.

 

[AA357]

I have answered your question: No, 4-fa is not useful to you or anyone. It is intrinsically harmful if ingested and acts as a neurotoxin, causes gi disturbances, as does all halogenated amphetamine substances. You will have less neurotransmitter release with 4-fa than with meth. But with equal are greater disturbances as with meth, except regarding hyper-excitability induced psychotic states induced by meth that will be greater in meth because of the neurotransmitter release.

This isn't an exhaustive list of physical problems but it should be enough to warn.

Hows that buckaroo?

OK thanks; I'll do some more research on it.

I don't think anything sounds unusual about how you respond to methamphetamine? Am I missing something?

I would say I'm unusual in the way that I wouldn't dream of taking methamphetamine any other way other than orally and I would never increase the dosage to compensate for tolerance... 30mg is a fairly high therapeutic dose and out of respect for my body I wouldn't want to dose any higher than that.

I'm not familiar with 4-FA, but it kind of sounds like you're comparing your meth experience to some sort of junkie stereotype and thinking the lack of common ground means you're unusual.

Well as nice as it feels in low doses; I can't for the life of me understand why people would want to use high doses of methamphetamine recreationally or as a party drug, let alone use it frequently enough to get addicted to it.

Get this: I find 15-20mg Valium to be highly euphoric. Not just calming and relaxing - I'm talking enhanced tactile sensations, increased appreciation for music and food and just generally feeling absolutely fucking phenomenal.
For me diazepam is more euphoric than GHB, pure flake cocaine or prescription opioids. Only psychedelics and MXE are more euphoric.

4-FA is pretty great. At 150mg it gave me an almost MDMA-like roll (at least for the first couple hours) which was great to party on. At 30mg, it felt less tunnel-vision and amphy than 20mg Adderall, but it did increase my focus and attention while also giving me enough seretonin release to literally laugh out loud every 10 minutes or so for absolutely no reason, which makes me think itd be perfect for working as a retail cashier or something. Plus the shit is cheap as FUCK.

However, because it releases seretonin, I wouldnt recommend it as a substance to take to "get shit done" even if it is in low doses. Look to 2-FA, 2-FMA, or maybe Ethylphenidate for your needs.

Thanks for your input... sounds alright. I will look into 2-FA and 2-FMA.
When I say "get shit done" I'm not talking about working or going to job interviews. I mean waking up early on a Saturday morning, cleaning my house, going to the gym, meeting up with friends... that sort of thing. No pressure. I don't mind being a little messy/feeling silly - it would actually be quite nice.
Even though MDMA was too much; I can quite easily go about my daily business while tripping on 10mg DOM or 30mg 2C-E if that means anything.

 

[pinpoint]

4-fa is not useful to you or anyone

That is your opinion.

OP the dosage on 4FA is key. I had 200MG and used 20-30MG per dose and it worked great. Once I got over 50MG all bets were off. I ended up writing a 3 page review of the front desk clerk at the hotel I was staying in. It was super-cringeworthy and sounded like I was praising someone who had saved my life in war or something, but that's what MDMA'ish drugs do... lots of loved up feels :D

 

[SixBuckets]

OK thanks; I'll do some more research on it.


I would say I'm unusual in the way that I wouldn't dream of taking methamphetamine any other way other than orally and I would never increase the dosage to compensate for tolerance... 30mg is a fairly high therapeutic dose and out of respect for my body I wouldn't want to dose any higher than that.

The vast, vast majority of people who try methamphetamine do not go on to become dependent users.

Almost all products sold as a member of the "speed" family in Australia are methamphetamine (with the occasional RC thrown in). Plenty of people have only ever taken methamphetamine orally or nasally and never proceed to smoking or injecting.

I don't say this to encourage anyone to feel that they are not 'at risk' of addiction or dependence - more to point out that these are really complicated phenomena, and it's difficult to predict who's going to be in the minority that end up with serious dependence. You can find posts all over this and other harm reduction forums about people who 'chipped' for years before finding themselves as habitual or regular users.

I think it's a lot easier to stick to your commitment to only consuming orally than it is to stick to not raising the dose. Tolerance often happens slowly.

Anyway, I'm just pointing out that there's nothing unusual about the way you use methamphetamine - you're no more 'at risk' or not 'at risk' than any other drug user.

Well as nice as it feels in low doses; I can't for the life of me understand why people would want to use high doses of methamphetamine recreationally or as a party drug, let alone use it frequently enough to get addicted to it.

*shrug* I don't understand the appeal of getting black out drunk, but I still consider myself a regular drinker and would find it hard to never drink alcohol again.

And that's the best example you're getting out of me on a public forum.

Get this: I find 15-20mg Valium to be highly euphoric. Not just calming and relaxing - I'm talking enhanced tactile sensations, increased appreciation for music and food and just generally feeling absolutely fucking phenomenal.
For me diazepam is more euphoric than GHB, pure flake cocaine or prescription opioids. Only psychedelics and MXE are more euphoric.

That's unusual, but by no means unique.

When I say "get shit done" I'm not talking about working or going to job interviews. I mean waking up early on a Saturday morning, cleaning my house, going to the gym, meeting up with friends... that sort of thing. No pressure. I don't mind being a little messy/feeling silly - it would actually be quite nice.

Lol cleaning. Now you definitely sound like a regular old tweaker.

 

[cyberius]

I personally hate 4-FA. It has a very similar profile to meth but more dangerous IMO. One dose lasts significantly longer than you will have bargained for with the useful effects lasting 2-3 hours and the peripheral anxiety, jitters, vasoconstriction, and general discomfort and out of focus feeling lasting for around 8 hours before you crash and feel a lot worse. Don't even think about redosing because you will never get positive effects from redosing 4-FA, it even sent me to the ER.