Relapse Worried about relapsing.

[birdup.snaildown]

Over 11 weeks sober now. No drugs. No alcohol. I promised to do a year sober, but I can't do that. So I bargained it down to when we get pregnant. Gonna start trying at the end of march. So that's over 6 months total assuming it doesn't take us long. Managed to hit the bullseye on the first attempt last time, but that was over 2 years ago and I'm nearly 40 now.

When we had our first kid, I did 3 months sober leading up to conception cause I read that was good for sperm quality and what not... Pretty sure that's the longest I've ever gone without any drugs, including alcohol - over the course of 20 years.

When I get around the 3 month mark, it starts feeling like I've been wandering through the desert. I'm tired and depressed and demotivated. I feel like every day I'm forcing myself to be someone that I'm not and that just beats my spirit into the ground... but maybe that's the devil on my shoulder whispering bullshit into my ear to get me to relapse.

The first couple of weeks was brutal. Then I was fine for a couple of months and now I'm itching again. It always happens like this. The 3 month is haunting me. Maybe it's because all the shit is out of my system now and I'm not used to being clean. Maybe not. Maybe I'm just fucking weak. I don't know why this happens. I don't know what to do.

I need to get my life sorted out, but I'm putting all this pressure on myself to do it sober and it's exhausting. When I'm high, I always think life will be easier sober... but it isn't. I'm not motivated. I'm still depressed. All my problems still exist. Getting sober hasn't magically fixed everything.

This was never meant to be permanent. I wanted to reset dependency (and tolerance) before I returned to drug use. I wanted to teach myself to be motivated without uppers and to relax without downers... but I haven't taught myself shit. I'm just not motivated and I'm stressed the fuck out all the time. Most of all though, I'm so fucking tired. I don't know how to get shit down without drugs as an incentive. There is no reward for doing the right thing. I don't know how the fuck sober folks do this every day of their lives.

I guess I've got decades of dependency to unwind and maybe I can't expect that to happen in 3 months? But I'm afraid of how long it will take. Will I ever get out of this loop? Do I really want to? I feel like I've lost myself. I'm confused and miserable. The only thing stopping me from relapsing is my family. I can't let them down. But, they don't understand.

I've fucked up for so long now that they're all ready to give up on me. I feel like I have to be perfect or that's it... which is bullshit, because they're not fucking perfect. But I'm the one addicted to drugs which means I'm the only one that has to fix my shit. If I was fat, they'd just look the other way more or less until I developed diabetes.

It's getting worse every day at the moment. I don't know how I'm going to feel in 6 months. If it keeps going like this, I'm going to be a fucking train wreck... and then how hard will I relapse? Am I going to start slamming H again?

I get nobody can answer any of these questions.

I guess I just needed to vent.

I'm not used to life without drugs. It's a scary fucking world when you can't chemically control your perception... and I'm sure that's not what people want to hear. It sounds like I'm saying that sobriety sucks, but that's not it. Extreme sobriety sucks. So does extreme drug use. I've always wanted to maintain some level of moderation. I don't want to be high and drunk all the time, but I've got an addictive personality and I know that once I start drinking or smoking I just keep fucking going and the days blur into weeks... and the weeks into months...

I can't maintain sobriety and I can't maintain moderation so I guess I'm destined to just be a lifelong fuck up and a burden on everyone around me. Then again, maybe this is just me starting to slip. Maybe this is me deciding to slip. Maybe this is all an elaborate justification for my inevitable failure.

I suspect that I do these extreme periods of sobriety to justify relapsing. If I devoted as much will powr to moderating my behavior, maybe I'd be successful. I haven't always been drowning in drugs. Like everyone else, I get high more often when I'm depressed... but I don't know how to fix my depression. Now that I'm sober, I'm more depressed.

I'm proud of my 11 weeks, but a lot of people probably think it's pathetic that I'm counting. Maybe it is pathetic that this is the best I can do... and that it's such a struggle. When I said I was going to do a year of sobriety, I said that so my wife didn't leave me because I was in a really bad place. I really believed I could do a year, but I know now that I can't.

A year of sobriety (for me) is like a couch potato climbing Everest.

I'm too weak to be strong.

Sorry for the TL;DR

 

[JessFR]

11 weeks of sobriety isn't pathetic. Or it had better fucking not be cause it's longer than I've ever gotten.

I dunno, there are no good answers, none I've found anyway. I've never worked it out either. Like you said it's like a loop of trying to get things under control then spiraling out of control then back under control, each time wanting the reverse.

Regular life just seems intolerable.

I dunno man, I don't have the answers. All I know is that you're not alone, and 11 weeks sober is harder than anyone who hasn't been there will ever understand.

 

[JessFR]

Sadly: the part that I emboldened applies to so many things not least of which are destitution, addiction, depression, and suicide. And while they may mean well (most anyway): not even fifty years of study and twenty PhD's will have a medical professional understand. They may be well versed in the mechanics and the research and the programs that have been developed (which from what I gather to have merit but also are not for everybody either). But with things of this nature: there's no substitute for experience.

Of the four mentioned: I'd say that depression is the worst. That's the one that can lead to the others (assuming it's the underlying condition as opposed to depression ending up being the result of substance abuse).

I agree, for example, reading about withdrawal is not the same as living it. I've experienced opioid withdrawal countless times, and there's simply no way to describe it that really explains it as well as having lived it. It's just not doable.

There's only so much a verbal description can give you.

And it pisses me off a lot when doctors who've never been in withdrawal act like they have any idea how hard it is.

Usually they like to say that it's "flu-like" which is bullllllllshit.

 

[birdup.snaildown]

And it pisses me off a lot when doctors who've never been in withdrawal act like they have any idea how hard it is.

Yeah I FUCKING hate that.

One time I was in rehab this nurse was doing group therapy with us and she said, "The fact that you're here means nothing," and I fucking exploded into tears. It was my first time in rehab. I asked her if she'd ever struggled with addiction and she said "no?" like "so what?"

I tried to explain her how hard it was for me to ask for help and how much of a huge step checking in to rehab was but she didn't get it.

Never went to group again.

Sadly: the part that I emboldened applies to so many things not least of which are destitution, addiction, depression, and suicide. And while they may mean well (most anyway): not even fifty years of study and twenty PhD's will have a medical professional understand. They may be well versed in the mechanics and the research and the programs that have been developed (which from what I gather to have merit but also are not for everybody either). But with things of this nature: there's no substitute for experience.

This is my problem. Nobody in my life these days understands what I'm going through. They just think I'm weak and I'm making excuses. I don't even bother telling them that I'm 11 weeks sober because they give me a look as if to say "is that actually an accomplishment for you?"

 

[Jabberwocky]

well done on 11 weeks, its not pathetic at all. every day clean at the beginning is a huge achievement.

i recall being told that the keyrings in NA roughly mirror neurological changes, so its natural you'll feel a bit different coming up to the 90 day mark. and unfortunately feeling different is not always better, especially in early recovery. i think around 3 months clean is when i started getting everything i hadn't felt while using that was just waiting in the post for when i was sober. this included a lot of really dark stuff, friends dying, traumatic abuse etc. my brain would process one thing give me a day off being in tears then the next unprocessed event would pop up. it was relentless and i honestly thought it would never end, but it did.

are you doing any meetings? NA/AA?SMART? I found it absolutely invaluable for getting that mutual understanding. just hearing people who i honestly felt had similar addictions to me and seeing that they'd made it out the other side gave me hope when i couldn't muster it from inside myself.

if everything was just fine when you aren't using drugs, you wouldn't be using drugs.

also, if you relapse you will not necessarily go straight back to your worse. 12 steppers tend to instill this immense fear, which i think is useful because it sets a clear line and means you can't justify using just once. i was convinced for most of my first 6 months that it was just a case of when, not if, i was back shooting snowballs and whoring myself out. that was 2 years ago and it still feels like a 50/50 thing. but i've used heroin and crack a couple of times in recovery, after more than 18 months of total abstinence from all drugs, and i didn't go straight back to it. in fact its helped me shut the door on heroin. i'm not encouraging you to relapse, i'm just saying that don't use it as a stick to beat yourself with. its not a foregone conclusion that you'll die an addict. to use an annoyingly true NA cliche, 'once you're clean you have a choice.'

good luck. reach out for help irl as well as on here.

 

[birdup.snaildown]

And that in and of itself I hope makes you feel proud.

I'm proud and I'm not proud, because I hate myself for being proud since this has been such a long struggle and all I have to show for it is 11 fucking weeks... So I guess my pride negates my pride?

At some point I think I have to accept the fact that I may never become a different person and maybe that's okay.

 

[Jabberwocky]

At some point I think I have to accept the fact that I may never become a different person and maybe that's okay

completely hear you there. people think i'm joking when i say 'i've been me for 34 years now and i'm fed up'

if you do maintain your recovery you'll at least feel better about yourself. i had to stop caring about anything when my using got really bad cos i couldn't face what i'd become. i'm still deeply ashamed of how low i got but i'm proud of me today, just supporting myself and not driving the people around me mad is better than i ever expected.

 

[Rio Fantastic]

This is my problem. Nobody in my life these days understands what I'm going through. They just think I'm weak and I'm making excuses. I don't even bother telling them that I'm 11 weeks sober because they give me a look as if to say "is that actually an accomplishment for you?"

It's bad enough that you have to deal with judgement from other people, but even worse is that you're heaping a lot of self-criticism onto the top of that. You are constantly underplaying your 11 weeks (a huge feat!) and are compounding your own suffering by not only feeling depressed (something that ultimately you have no direct control over in sobriety) but then judging yourself for feeling that way as well, which feeds into the depression and creates a toxic cycle of self-blame. This won't solve all your problems immediately, but you could at least cut out some of the voluntary misery you're inflicting on yourself by challenging the negative thoughts that you have where you keep putting yourself down. You're doing the best that you can, and that's all any of us can do!

The second point I wanted to bring up, and maybe you're already familiar with this, is that what you're experiencing right now isn't just indicative of the fact that sobriety is just an unpleasant experience. If your habit was for any decent length of time then you are probably still in PAWs, and the unfortunate truth is that you may be for a few more months yet (though it will recede and intensify at periods). The positive note to take from that though is that this brain-state you're experiencing is biological & temporary. It's not a personal failing or an indication of a fundamental flaw in your character, it's just an unfortunate consequence of your brain pruning & changing to respond to the lack of chemicals it's grown accustomed to. The most obvious & extreme part of this process is the acute withdrawals, but after your brain adapts to that it still continues changing for anything up to a year. A side-effect of this process is mood swings, fatigue, energy fluctuations etc. It's a widely known but not yet well-studied part of recovery, and completely natural and time-bound. Stick it out and you will see improvement. Are you doing the cliches that are recommended to hasten the process? Do you exercise/eat well?

If you take anything at all from this post, it's to please give yourself a break. That toxic little voice in your head telling you that your 11 weeks is pathetic is the exact same voice that will try and seduce you back into taking drugs again, and it's difficult to beat because it speaks to us in our minds with our own voice so we can mistakenly identify as it, but it isn't us, it's our addiction. Something significant bought us all to sobriety - there are scores of addicts & alcoholics who die having never even acknowledged their problem, let alone took steps like this to try and remedy it. You're doing great!

 

[Jabberwocky]

Over 11 weeks sober now. No drugs. No alcohol. I promised to do a year sober, but I can't do that. So I bargained it down to when we get pregnant. Gonna start trying at the end of march. So that's over 6 months total assuming it doesn't take us long. Managed to hit the bullseye on the first attempt last time, but that was over 2 years ago and I'm nearly 40 now.

When we had our first kid, I did 3 months sober leading up to conception cause I read that was good for sperm quality and what not... Pretty sure that's the longest I've ever gone without any drugs, including alcohol - over the course of 20 years.

When I get around the 3 month mark, it starts feeling like I've been wandering through the desert. I'm tired and depressed and demotivated. I feel like every day I'm forcing myself to be someone that I'm not and that just beats my spirit into the ground... but maybe that's the devil on my shoulder whispering bullshit into my ear to get me to relapse.

The first couple of weeks was brutal. Then I was fine for a couple of months and now I'm itching again. It always happens like this. The 3 month is haunting me. Maybe it's because all the shit is out of my system now and I'm not used to being clean. Maybe not. Maybe I'm just fucking weak. I don't know why this happens. I don't know what to do.

I need to get my life sorted out, but I'm putting all this pressure on myself to do it sober and it's exhausting. When I'm high, I always think life will be easier sober... but it isn't. I'm not motivated. I'm still depressed. All my problems still exist. Getting sober hasn't magically fixed everything.

This was never meant to be permanent. I wanted to reset dependency (and tolerance) before I returned to drug use. I wanted to teach myself to be motivated without uppers and to relax without downers... but I haven't taught myself shit. I'm just not motivated and I'm stressed the fuck out all the time. Most of all though, I'm so fucking tired. I don't know how to get shit down without drugs as an incentive. There is no reward for doing the right thing. I don't know how the fuck sober folks do this every day of their lives.

I guess I've got decades of dependency to unwind and maybe I can't expect that to happen in 3 months? But I'm afraid of how long it will take. Will I ever get out of this loop? Do I really want to? I feel like I've lost myself. I'm confused and miserable. The only thing stopping me from relapsing is my family. I can't let them down. But, they don't understand.

I've fucked up for so long now that they're all ready to give up on me. I feel like I have to be perfect or that's it... which is bullshit, because they're not fucking perfect. But I'm the one addicted to drugs which means I'm the only one that has to fix my shit. If I was fat, they'd just look the other way more or less until I developed diabetes.

It's getting worse every day at the moment. I don't know how I'm going to feel in 6 months. If it keeps going like this, I'm going to be a fucking train wreck... and then how hard will I relapse? Am I going to start slamming H again?

I get nobody can answer any of these questions.

I guess I just needed to vent.

I'm not used to life without drugs. It's a scary fucking world when you can't chemically control your perception... and I'm sure that's not what people want to hear. It sounds like I'm saying that sobriety sucks, but that's not it. Extreme sobriety sucks. So does extreme drug use. I've always wanted to maintain some level of moderation. I don't want to be high and drunk all the time, but I've got an addictive personality and I know that once I start drinking or smoking I just keep fucking going and the days blur into weeks... and the weeks into months...

I can't maintain sobriety and I can't maintain moderation so I guess I'm destined to just be a lifelong fuck up and a burden on everyone around me. Then again, maybe this is just me starting to slip. Maybe this is me deciding to slip. Maybe this is all an elaborate justification for my inevitable failure.

I suspect that I do these extreme periods of sobriety to justify relapsing. If I devoted as much will powr to moderating my behavior, maybe I'd be successful. I haven't always been drowning in drugs. Like everyone else, I get high more often when I'm depressed... but I don't know how to fix my depression. Now that I'm sober, I'm more depressed.

I'm proud of my 11 weeks, but a lot of people probably think it's pathetic that I'm counting. Maybe it is pathetic that this is the best I can do... and that it's such a struggle. When I said I was going to do a year of sobriety, I said that so my wife didn't leave me because I was in a really bad place. I really believed I could do a year, but I know now that I can't.

A year of sobriety (for me) is like a couch potato climbing Everest.

I'm too weak to be strong.

Sorry for the TL;DR

While I applaud you staying sober and believe in you. Here’s my honest opinion and opinions are like assholes and I am one. But if your worried you’re going to slam H again maybe you should rethink having a child. You need to be held accountable tbh and I know things are hard but when you take responsibility for a life I believe it’s a POS move to be planning for a child when you haven’t even managed to learn to love yourself. Look I have no room to judge anyone but I want you to look back at this post from another point of view other then your own. We all suffer, many of us relapse.. but when you go to rehab they warn you not to be in a relationship the first year of sober living. What would they say about a child. Work on yourself. Visit us often there’s many smart people on here with a lot of resources, use them, don’t get caught in this perpetual thinking. Your way has gotten you here, maybe it’s time you seek a professional before embarking on another journey especially one that includes another life that you may think you own the rights to but you don’t. If you want children I’m all for it. But get yourself right first.

 

[JessFR]

Yeah I FUCKING hate that.

One time I was in rehab this nurse was doing group therapy with us and she said, "The fact that you're here means nothing," and I fucking exploded into tears. It was my first time in rehab. I asked her if she'd ever struggled with addiction and she said "no?" like "so what?"

I tried to explain her how hard it was for me to ask for help and how much of a huge step checking in to rehab was but she didn't get it.

Never went to group again.



This is my problem. Nobody in my life these days understands what I'm going through. They just think I'm weak and I'm making excuses. I don't even bother telling them that I'm 11 weeks sober because they give me a look as if to say "is that actually an accomplishment for you?"

Well, we understand what an accomplishment it is.

*hugs*

And I'll fight anyone who says different! :D

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

Over 11 weeks sober now. No drugs. No alcohol. I promised to do a year sober, but I can't do that. So I bargained it down to when we get pregnant. Gonna start trying at the end of march. So that's over 6 months total assuming it doesn't take us long. Managed to hit the bullseye on the first attempt last time, but that was over 2 years ago and I'm nearly 40 now.

When we had our first kid, I did 3 months sober leading up to conception cause I read that was good for sperm quality and what not... Pretty sure that's the longest I've ever gone without any drugs, including alcohol - over the course of 20 years.

When I get around the 3 month mark, it starts feeling like I've been wandering through the desert. I'm tired and depressed and demotivated. I feel like every day I'm forcing myself to be someone that I'm not and that just beats my spirit into the ground... but maybe that's the devil on my shoulder whispering bullshit into my ear to get me to relapse.

The first couple of weeks was brutal. Then I was fine for a couple of months and now I'm itching again. It always happens like this. The 3 month is haunting me. Maybe it's because all the shit is out of my system now and I'm not used to being clean. Maybe not. Maybe I'm just fucking weak. I don't know why this happens. I don't know what to do.

I need to get my life sorted out, but I'm putting all this pressure on myself to do it sober and it's exhausting. When I'm high, I always think life will be easier sober... but it isn't. I'm not motivated. I'm still depressed. All my problems still exist. Getting sober hasn't magically fixed everything.

This was never meant to be permanent. I wanted to reset dependency (and tolerance) before I returned to drug use. I wanted to teach myself to be motivated without uppers and to relax without downers... but I haven't taught myself shit. I'm just not motivated and I'm stressed the fuck out all the time. Most of all though, I'm so fucking tired. I don't know how to get shit down without drugs as an incentive. There is no reward for doing the right thing. I don't know how the fuck sober folks do this every day of their lives.

I guess I've got decades of dependency to unwind and maybe I can't expect that to happen in 3 months? But I'm afraid of how long it will take. Will I ever get out of this loop? Do I really want to? I feel like I've lost myself. I'm confused and miserable. The only thing stopping me from relapsing is my family. I can't let them down. But, they don't understand.

I've fucked up for so long now that they're all ready to give up on me. I feel like I have to be perfect or that's it... which is bullshit, because they're not fucking perfect. But I'm the one addicted to drugs which means I'm the only one that has to fix my shit. If I was fat, they'd just look the other way more or less until I developed diabetes.

It's getting worse every day at the moment. I don't know how I'm going to feel in 6 months. If it keeps going like this, I'm going to be a fucking train wreck... and then how hard will I relapse? Am I going to start slamming H again?

I get nobody can answer any of these questions.

I guess I just needed to vent.

I'm not used to life without drugs. It's a scary fucking world when you can't chemically control your perception... and I'm sure that's not what people want to hear. It sounds like I'm saying that sobriety sucks, but that's not it. Extreme sobriety sucks. So does extreme drug use. I've always wanted to maintain some level of moderation. I don't want to be high and drunk all the time, but I've got an addictive personality and I know that once I start drinking or smoking I just keep fucking going and the days blur into weeks... and the weeks into months...

I can't maintain sobriety and I can't maintain moderation so I guess I'm destined to just be a lifelong fuck up and a burden on everyone around me. Then again, maybe this is just me starting to slip. Maybe this is me deciding to slip. Maybe this is all an elaborate justification for my inevitable failure.

I suspect that I do these extreme periods of sobriety to justify relapsing. If I devoted as much will powr to moderating my behavior, maybe I'd be successful. I haven't always been drowning in drugs. Like everyone else, I get high more often when I'm depressed... but I don't know how to fix my depression. Now that I'm sober, I'm more depressed.

I'm proud of my 11 weeks, but a lot of people probably think it's pathetic that I'm counting. Maybe it is pathetic that this is the best I can do... and that it's such a struggle. When I said I was going to do a year of sobriety, I said that so my wife didn't leave me because I was in a really bad place. I really believed I could do a year, but I know now that I can't.

A year of sobriety (for me) is like a couch potato climbing Everest.

I'm too weak to be strong.

Sorry for the TL;DR

The way you feel now is not necessarily the way you will feel for the rest of your life.

Things change. You will change. Your circumstances will change. You just need to be able to take advantage of those changes when they occur and use them to your benefit.

Change is good. Use it wisely...

 

[TheInvisibleStoner]

Relapse onto some weed?

Maybe some mushrooms to get answers? Can't you get iboga out there? I would relapse onto that in a heartbeat if I could.

But right, nothing magical going to happen in 3 months. At 40 you will need a good year or two off the hard shit. H, meth, coke, or whatever.

As long as you have some motivation for now, and make it to 6 months you may be good. Dunno, I would always have to smoke weed. I used to say alcohol is cool too, but has now been added to do not touch list.

 

[JessFR]

completely hear you there. people think i'm joking when i say 'i've been me for 34 years now and i'm fed up'

I totally get that. I hate me for the most part. I don't wanna be me. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of drug addicts feel like that.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

I totally get that. I hate me for the most part. I don't wanna be me. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of drug addicts feel like that.

I wouldn't want to be you either Jess.

(Sorry, couldn't resist...)

 

[JessFR]

I wouldn't want to be you either Jess.

(Sorry, couldn't resist...)

Who would?

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

I didn't want to be me for most of my life either. But I've come to realise that there's fuck all I can do about it and it could be worse. Hang in there Jess, it'll be worth it in the end...

 

[JessFR]

I didn't want to be me for most of my life either. But I've come to realise that there's fuck all I can do about it and it could be worse. Hang in there Jess, it'll be worth it in the end...

In the end I'll be dead.

 

[birdup.snaildown]

Thanks for the responses.

Not going to reconsider having another kid. I'm not going to get back on heroin. It's been about 8 years. I'm just feeding myself excuses to relapse. When I maintain sobriety for a long period of time, I tend to fall back into it pretty hard so I'm worried about what I'm going to do after the longest period of sobriety ever... if I've been good for 6 months, maybe I can justify anything. I don't know. That could just be the devil on my shoulder convincing me to fall early.

I'm a good dad. Better than a lot of sober dads I know. I love my daughter. Relapsing isn't going to make me a shit parent... and I'm always going to have dependency problems. If I wait until they go away, I'm never going to have the opportunity to have more kids.

I've never been to NA. Don't know if it exists around here. I tried going to AA for a while but I couldn't stand it. Too much God shit and too much self pity. It didn't help me.

The stuff about brain chemistry is interesting and helpful, although if I need a year (or TWO?!?) to get off everything that make me feel like I should just give up. I'm never gonna do years of sobriety.

What is PAWS?

I used to say alcohol is cool too, but has now been added to do not touch list

Yeah, most of my worst moments have come from combining alcohol with other drugs... or just drinking WAY too much. If I had to quit something permanently, this would be right up the top of the list. It's fucking hard though because it's everywhere and every time I go out somebody says "wanna drink?" If they did that with heroin, nobody would ever quit.

Also one of the things I'm doing to keep myself occupied when I'm sober is making alcohol so I'll have an abundant amount in the house when I hit the 6 month mark... which (come to think of it) probably isn't the best idea?

 

[cduggles]

What is PAWS?

PAWS is post acute withdrawal syndrome. Basically it refers to protracted withdrawal symptoms.
Here’s a link for Wikipedia:

Post-acute-withdrawal syndrome - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[xaddictx]

Yeah I FUCKING hate that.

One time I was in rehab this nurse was doing group therapy with us and she said, "The fact that you're here means nothing," and I fucking exploded into tears. It was my first time in rehab. I asked her if she'd ever struggled with addiction and she said "no?" like "so what?"

I tried to explain her how hard it was for me to ask for help and how much of a huge step checking in to rehab was but she didn't get it.

Never went to group again.



This is my problem. Nobody in my life these days understands what I'm going through. They just think I'm weak and I'm making excuses. I don't even bother telling them that I'm 11 weeks sober because they give me a look as if to say "is that actually an accomplishment for you?"

Only people who have actually " lived it" should be nurses or therapists. Otherwise they dont have a fucking clue.