Wisdom vs Religion

[fieryslash]

Ever since the Enlightenment Ages, mankind has been passing down their knowledge to other intellectuals in order to grasp the nature of things and everything in it. Before that, religion has been seen by most as more valuable than science and philosophy. The question is, where do you draw the line between these two subjects? Could it be that human nature has allowed itself to accept reality as it is or is there more to it that defines itself predestined to become something greater after death? How come religion and wisdom becomes an issue when there is absolutely nothing problematic in the equation of the universe? Death, disease and wars exist only because it exists in our minds. Mankind is able to solve these issues on their own by interacting with other thinkers to develop a solution that fits the specific criteria. I believe that knowledge and wisdom is on a different plane of thought than the realm of religion. We cannot be sure if religion actually works or becomes real because we do not know if it is actually true. From my standpoint, I think the brain has a special thirst for wisdom and not religion because it becomes sentient and begins to solve problems on its own where as religion is simply a leap of faith. People for ages have been trying to come up with a simple answer to life and its ultimately infinite possibilities but they remain baffled because they are searching in the wrong place. I came up with a belief once that death is only the beginning. I fantasized that we could be titans on a transcendental projection of essence that is made up of everything and that we are somewhat alike to what we have faith in. Another day is like a celebration because we are born again into what we thought of what it might be like to be human and we are given back our memories. Doesn't that seem like a good enough solution to a problem? Memories are important to us because it reminds us where we came from and what we experienced. Like a good friend said to me, it is always good luck to have faith in yourself because in the end of all things, it becomes a reality when we experience life at first hand and for those who remember it the most are the ones who treasure it the most.

 

[fieryslash]

I would like to add that I am a Christian and I try to pray everyday but sometimes I begin to wonder that if all of this praying is going to waste. It shouldn't be good to waste something that we believe in our hearts to be truly important.

 

[BetweenTheLines]

The question is, where do you draw the line between these two subjects?

Knowledge is quite readily verifiable; objective.
Religion is taken on faith, UNverifiable.
The line between the two isn't very murky.

I believe that knowledge and wisdom is on a different plane of thought than the realm of religion.

See, you knew it already

We cannot be sure if religion actually works or becomes real because we do not know if it is actually true.

w/o getting into whatever you mean by "works", I'll just say that, yes, we can 'test' religion in many ways to see how 'true' it is. (Spoiler Alert: it has a success rate, wrt to proof, along the lines of any other voodoo's such as psychics or astrologers)

From my standpoint, I think the brain has a special thirst for wisdom and not religion because it becomes sentient and begins to solve problems on its own where as religion is simply a leap of faith.

For reasons that should be obvious, ppl want to know/understand "the big questions", and where knowledge is lacking, many ppl toss in the catch-all "sky-wizard" theories to plug up and tidy all the unknowables. We can study the big bang, or we can say god queefed - only one answer is right in the end, tho.

People for ages have been trying to come up with a simple answer to life and its ultimately infinite possibilities but they remain baffled because they are searching in the wrong place.

Sure, SOME ppl are barking up the wrong trees in this respect. Others are not. Who is who should be clear.

I came up with a belief once that death is only the beginning. I fantasized that we could be titans on a transcendental projection of essence that is made up of everything and that we are somewhat alike to what we have faith in. Another day is like a celebration because we are born again into what we thought of what it might be like to be human and we are given back our memories. Doesn't that seem like a good enough solution to a problem?

Does it seem like a good solution? No, not at all. Would I like to think that, after I die, I get to go to some schweet afterparty in the clouds? Hell yeah! Does it come across as logical, in any way whatsoever, to me? No! That's the division point in a lot of faithVreason folks. Do you go with beliefs based on what you THINK is accurate, or what you'd WANT to be accurate? I stopped wishing for the impossible as a child, others never stop.


And on-topic-enough: wrt there being something after death that the consciousness we've come to know will experience - SO WHAT? We cannot know, we cannot plan, so why live based on something happening 'after', when it may not? I just cannot understand ppl who alter the lives they DO know exist, for something that they think/wish for/have faith in.

 

[BetweenTheLines]

I would like to add that I am a Christian and I try to pray everyday but sometimes I begin to wonder that if all of this praying is going to waste. It shouldn't be good to waste something that we believe in our hearts to be truly important.

It was obvious you were - I'm also guessing you're under 20. Plz consider your beliefs before they're set for life.

Let me say something in a manner that, while I don't like how I'm saying it, may make some sense. If there's god/afterlife/etc, do you honestly believe that god will punish you because you chose to ignore him/faith, SO LONG AS you lived rightly? I imagine it's obvious I'm atheist/agnostic/whatever the hell you wanna call it, but ethically/morally i'm a much stricter person than ANY christian I know. To be fair, I don't know too many xtians too well, but the ones I know tend to be a little BELOW avg wrt ethics. Take that for what it's worth.

 

[panic in paradise]

fieryslash
I would like to add that I am a Christian and I try to pray everyday but sometimes I begin to wonder that if all of this praying is going to waste. It shouldn't be good to waste something that we believe in our hearts to be truly important.

one of the things i couldnt help but to consider, was the visualization of everyone else who was or would be praying that evening, and all of those prayers in the aer around those hours; pleads and hopes; begging's and thank-yous.

i also believe praying can be important, but to let others prayers be heard is of more importance, for the moment. to help cleanse that same air with silence paying only attention to the purity and cleansing possibilities of ones own breath, is a small action to take that does give back.

take some love give some extra and live that much more

 

[BetweenTheLines]

are you implying there's some kind of 'prayer-bandwidth'?
(may be reading your post wrong lol)

 

[panic in paradise]

^heheh - no you read it right.

if ones prays to their God, an external one, seems to me the prayers must be carried along by some-sort of medium for them to get there, and other people praying to the same God as-well.
(i feel the implication is there inherently ;-)

~

to do to experience life and learn, live and share the abilities we each have and the world we all live in, amongst all indifference, with patience through and above all suffering in life - it is going to happen anyway - this seems to be the message from most religious/spiritual paths when everything is said and done.

 

[CrackAndScrabble]

Ever since the Enlightenment Ages, mankind has been passing down their knowledge to other intellectuals in order to grasp the nature of things and everything in it.

Hold up, your throwing away alot of very essential Philosophy in you think mankind has only been passing down knowledge since the 18th century.

How come religion and wisdom becomes an issue when there is absolutely nothing problematic in the equation of the universe? Death, disease and wars exist only because it exists in our minds.

This does sounds like you've taken alot of leaps of faith already. Or the idea your trying to express has been completely destroyed by your semantics.


I don't know what your trying to say here man. Being religious and being scientific aren't mutually exclusive. It is all in what knowledge you want to gain. What is actually "knowledge" is highly debatable.

 

[CoffeeDrinker]

Who wants to be the one to open the OP up to eastern philosophies?...1...2...3...NOT IT!

 

[Jabberwocky]

i think enlightenment style thinking and religion aren't necessarily mutually exclusive, they're just more difficult to marry. many people working towards enlightenment values (i.e. analytical thought, science, logic etc) are deeply religious, and logical enough not to hold completely contradictory beliefs strongly.

to pick up on CoffeeDrinker... and what the OP has already commented on, religious wisdom and 'enlightenment style' wisdom are different types but this doesn't invalidate either. i feel the eastern philosophies delve into questions that science just isn't a suitable tool to study, so we really need alternatives and they provide good ones IMO. something being unverifiable does not mean we cannot gain insight and wisdom from it.

i believe for some important questions- like what knowledge exactly is (as C&S pointed out is hard)- there isn't a 'fact about the matter' that we need to uncover, its probably intractable (given how many thousands of years we've spent failing to work it out). but we still need to study it. thought experiments can help elucidate problems but there is nothing out in the world we can go to check to see if a given definition of knowledge is correct.

 

[mebalzitch]

isn't this a tired old bumper sticker: "My karma ran over your dogma"?

 

[panic in paradise]

isn't this a tired old bumper sticker: "My karma ran over your dogma"?

"my dharma will walk your dogma"
??

 

[CoffeeDrinker]

My dogma, Ol' Yeller, got rabies, and then I cried.

 

[atara]

The temporal immortality of the soul of man, that is to say, its eternal survival also after death, is not only in no way guaranteed, but this assumption in the first place will not do for us what we always tried to make it do. Is a riddle solved by the fact that I survive for ever? Is this eternal life not as enigmatic as our present one? The solution of the riddle of life in space and time lies outside space and time.

~Ludwig Wittgenstein, Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus