Why wont it get me high anymore? (Help)

[Aussie Andrew]

Hey hows it going,
I took my first pill in August last year (2002) and wow what a mind blowing world that opened up before my eyes, such great feelings and just the ability to talk so positively and connect with your friends and strangers in such a POSITIVE way not to mention the incredible feelings of the music uplifting your entire soul, the lights and glowsticks the ability to move your body on the dancefloor like youve practiced for years, it was heaven for months.
Now, to my utter frustration and is why I am typing this - I cant get high anymore!
A lot of people have said that it is just "shit pills" or taking too much, but after say 20 times on ecstasy the feeling gradually wore off and I cant get it back. The past 6 sessions on pills have been completely the opposite, in fact it just envokes feelings of stress, anxiety and low self esteem, like its gone in reverse.
If anyone has any explanation or advice on what I need to do in regard to how long to have a break or even other drugs to take to help get the high back I would be so grateful for any info.
Help a fellow clubber get the magic back , please!
I know im not alone on this so lets get to the bottom of it.
Cheers from Perth Western Australia!
(A great place come visit some time)
Andrew

 

[Pleonastic]

You're definitely not alone. I'm in that same boat, and thanks to these weird experiences it's been 18 months since my last pill. Which in heindsight isn't an entirely bad thing...
In fact, what you speak of is so common that it has it's own term - "loss of magic". Basically it happens to just about everyone at some stage - some take years for it to happen, others lose the magic a lot sooner.
The problem is that for them to work again you need to relax your mind and stop thinking about them not working - but that's easier said than done. Unfortunatly I don't have the solution to your problem, but try stuff like taking a break, pre-loading with 5-htp and vitamins, etc.
By the way - how frequently did you take those 20 pills? Were they 20 pills over 20 weeks (or god forbid, less)? Or were they spaced out 3-4 weeks apart. Because the more frequently you use pills, the quicker you burn out.
Good luck with it all anyway!

 

[johnboy]

It's called tolerance, and it happens to a lot of people. The magic may never come back, and you may just have to deal with it. Other people will no doubt pop up with a hundred different dissenting opinions but the fact is that nearly everybody will suffer from tolerance to one degree or another. Breaks may help, and if nothing else they will give you perspective, but don't hold out for any magic "cure".
Heard a quote from Ann Shulgin the other day where she said they woldn't use MDMA for more than three sessions of therapy as after that point the empathy was gone, with every person they used it on. Sure you still gets lots of other effects, but that one thing that makes it so special is the first to go.

 

[payaya]

i can say the same, but i did a pill with speed the other week and boy was it good!
it seemed to get my mind off the pill, and when the buzz came in, boy memories just flooded back to me.

 

[BigTrancer]

www.erowid.org --> Plants & Drugs --> MDMA (Ecstasy) Vault --> MDMA FAQ:

Note on Using MDMA Many Times:
Most users of MDMA who have taken the drug many times report that after some number of sessions, varying by person from a few to a few dozen, the desirable effects of the drug are no longer as pronounced. Said one, "it loses its magic." Another person who used MDMA perhaps a dozen times (separated by weeks to months) noted the dropoff, waited three years (!), tried an ordinary dose of high-quality MDMA again, and found that the annoyance of the physical side effects outweighed the greatly diminished positive effects. He has sadly given up the drug. Others who have had fifty or more MDMA sessions still find them to be worthwhile on balance.
This MDMA effect dropoff might be explained by a psychological mechanism: loss of novelty. (On the other hand, people who have experienced MDMA effect dropoff generally report that there is not a similar dropoff in the effects of other psychedelics with which they are equally or more experienced, e.g. LSD and DMT.) Or the dropoff might be caused by lasting neurophysiological or neurological "changes" to the brain from exposure to MDMA, the prior state of the changed structures being necessary for ecstatic MDMA experiences. It is an as-yet-unanswered question whether such changes, if they happen, are best regarded as harmful, neutral, or beneficial.
If you choose to use MDMA, the lesson here may be to spend your first few sessions wisely and cherish them. Later sessions may never seem as ecstatic.
www.erowid.org --> Plants & Drugs --> Library - PiHKAL Online --> #109 MDMA:

In one study, MDMA was consumed at 9:00 AM each day for almost a week (120 milligrams the first day and 160 milligrams each subsequent day) and by the fifth day there were no effects from the drug except for some mydriasis. And even this appeared to be lost on the sixth day [...] A complete holiday from any drug for another 6 days led to the reversal of this tolerance, in that 120 milligrams of MDMA had substantially the full expected effects.
The above example indicates the effects of tolerance diminish the power of subsequent doses in the short term. I believe that by taking MDMA pills a couple of days in a row leads to decreased effects, but this short term tolerance can 'mostly' be removed by abstaining for a week or two. However, I also believe (unscientifically) that this recovery is by no means complete after only this short time, meaning that when you redose within a week or two, you're not starting from 100%. In my opinion, this small deficit that you experience can build up over time, into a longer-term tolerance, compounded by the loss of novelty and psychological factors, leaving you tolerant, jaded and over it.
www.erowid.org --> Plants & Drugs --> Experiences Vault --> Lessons of 25 MDMA Experiences:

WHAT I LEARNED FROM THE EXPERIENCE: I learned that like most drugs, you can build a tolerance to ecstacy very quickly. This only means more money you must spend to reach the level of pleasure you are seeking, and more harm to your body, and more exhaustion and hangover in the following days. I find that any more than once a month seems too often, as it takes at least that long to let my body tolerance settle down some, and I don't think I have ever felt as good as I did the very first time, off the same dosage anyway. I think the ecstacy experience varies widely with how clean the pills are, or if they are dirty, what other drugs they are cut with, and mindset. If I spend too much time worrying about how hard the drug is or isn't hitting me, then I ruin it's effects. I think the best thing you can do is limit the frequency and dose (try for only 1 or 2 pills, no more than once a month), and don't depend on the effects of the drug for a good time, but rather, just let them enhance your experience.
Found the above searching Erowid's Experience Vault for reports on MDMA featuring the word "tolerance".
Hope the links are a help.
BigTrancer

 

[Subliminal_jac]

one word.....immunity
we all go through it sumtime in the future, but for me and you and alot of other this time is now.
hav a break, a loong break. i know its hard but trust me its all for the best.
do normal shit, dont go out as much and u will feel alot better.
peace out all

 

[Aussie Andrew]

Hey all,
thanks for the advice, I had a feeling that I already knew whats going on, but its a pretty hard pill to swallow, ESPECIALLY if you have a good rave coming up that you KNOW will go off because its at a venue youve been to before. In this case im talking about *, for all who went to * - how can I miss * being packed out again??? Im just supposed to say to myself "hey you dont get high anymore, get drunk or something". Im sorry but my mind is craving the intense high and positive flow of energy. To not be able to tap in to it anymore is purely frustrating (and depressing).
On another note, even though the ecstasy doesnt get me high, it does remove ANY false barriers that I may have put up with some people or even when meeting strangers (randoms should i say), when im on this new feeling it gives me, even though im not high, I have to be 100% honest with myself and it really is hard at times which I find surprising. The only reason I may keep taking the pills is because it makes me be completely true to myself for at least a week or so, until my facade and "act" starts to take over again.
Has anyone else noticed this, or realised this to be true after reading my post?
later
Andy
[Edit: Venue details removed. BigTrancer]
[ 26 February 2003: Message edited by: BigTrancer ]

 

[villz]

Originally posted by Aussie Andrew:
Im just supposed to say to myself "hey you dont get high anymore, get drunk or something". Im sorry but my mind is craving the intense high and positive flow of energy. To not be able to tap in to it anymore is purely frustrating (and depressing).

you dont need ecstacy to achieve an ecstacy-like state. stuff like condition-dependent learning works really well. a basic example of it is thus, drink alcohol (or smoke pot) then take pills. next time you drink (or smoke) you should be able to access some of the ecstacy experience. it works for all sorts of states of mind (some drug-induced, some natural) and doesnt really diminish with time as long as u know what your looking for.
the human mind is a wonderful thing. maybe try other "natural" altered states like lucid dreaming and meditation, the results can be mind-blowing....

 

[Plasmo]

ive been doing pills since oct 99
and i still havent lost the magic
the key here is moderation in the last 4 years ive done prolly less than 50 pills
try taking a break for a few months than try again
test ure pill before taking to make sure it is a good one and relax and enjoy
or try taking pills at house parties where u can relax with ppl u know

 

[Aussie Andrew]

Id honestly have to say its 100% a chemical and phsyical effect.
My state of mind never came into it before, I could pop a pill then feel the rush no matter how hungover, tired, stressed, depressed, it was like magic, no effort required psychologically at all.
I think a long break is whats needed, Im just pissed off that I had to find out the hard way.
If I knew I could build up a tolerance I would have saved each and every roll for a rave and not wasted on a small gathering or after getting drunk so many times.
Does anyone recommend Cocaine. Personally im not a fan of Speed (I think it does about as much as some coffee). Cocaine intrigues me, is it true that the rush only lasts half an hour (a point per 1/2 hr?) and can you build up a tolerance similar to ecstacy because if you do, then ill be sure to space it out.
Tolerance advice on all other drugs would be VERY welcome.

 

[johnboy]

Oh dear. This thread is becoming a scary cliche. I don't know where to begin.
Swapping one drug for another is never advisable, but especially not going from from a relativly benign, non-habit forming one (MDMA) to a potentially destructive, extremely habit forming one (cocaine. It's just asking for trouble.
Yes the cocaine high only lasts half an hour or so. It is also extremely expensive. In Australia you will most likely go broke or be dead before you feel any real tolerance to cocaine, but it does happen.
It is threads like this that turn me into a nanna, making me want to just cry "What's wrong with being high on life!?"

 

[Pendulum]

hey all.
While I would agree mostly with the fact that it is tolerance, I also must agree with the fact that 'set and setting' make just as big a difference.
The more you take ecstacy, even after your first time... you learn to know what to expect from your experience. This is bad, because nowadays when you take a pill, you analyse and wait for each stage to come.
My best advice is to completely forget about the pill once it is down your throat (or up your bum). Once you have it.. go.. be gone... party like its 1999!!
the less time you spend thinking about the pill... the more easily it will come on, and you will be more relaxed and not anxious or depressed - being anxious and depressed is like the opposite of having seratonin released (in lamens terms).
remember small feelings, anxiety, excitement even, can alter the way MDMA can feel to you.
Also.. it is true that the mind can remember the feeling of ecstacy.. and you don't necessarilly need a pill to feel it.
Example: you are out at a club or rave.. and you hear the most uplifting trance song you have ever heard... while peaking.. and you are so high and euphoric it is amazing.
Then... the next time you hear that song.. in a CD shop.. at a bar, club, rave or whatever.. AND you are straight.. you will find yourself subconsiously remembering how it felt.. and all of a sudden you will feel that sensation again! I have done this so many times.. just walking into * when a good song is playing makes my jaw clench! Sounds strange.. but it is because that is what I would normally be doing on the dancefloor if I was peaking!
As for moderation.... this is the key. For a couple of reasons. First, Physically.. you do build up a tolerance to MDMA.. but having pills every 4 or more weeks is best. I have had 4 months off.. or even longer.. and normally I do it once every 7 - 12 weeks. I keep my tolerance down...
Secondly.. you build up a mental tolerance. You take the sensations for granted because you feel them so often. (addiction in a sesne). Taking pills less regularly keeps the novelty factor up.. and since you aren't doing it so regularly.. you almost kinda forget what it feels like!
I hope I made sense!?!?
Just some thoughts for you all - from my own personal experience.
Cheers
Pendulum
[Edit: Venue details removed. BigTracer]
[ 27 February 2003: Message edited by: BigTrancer ]

 

[Cowboy Mac]

the thread i started here may be of significance to you. it discusses at what point physical and psychological circumstances come into play.

 

[boom]

Dude why dont you just try going to an event straight, if you really love the music so much i think you will be surprised as to how much fun you'll have. SUre you wont be high but you are still in an environment where you can do what the fuck you want, cut up the dance floor, talk to a stranger, help someone who is aa tad to messy etc.
Going straight isnt as bad as it seems imho.
Or you could take a little speed just to help you dance through the night, and to keep you awake (think of it as a cup of coffee in your pocket)
As johnboy said it seems sad that you need to replace xtc with another drug. Just get high of the music :D And if your a trance fan then your already 1 step ahead as trance is so uplifting anyway

 

[Aussie Andrew]

Going to an event straight is definitely on the cards, I missed out on * over the weekend because I didnt think it would be enjoyable without drugs and I certainly didnt want to be one of the 5 people drunk at the venue, but looking at the photos, what an experience I missed out on, it was * all over again even better some have said.
Ill definitely be going to events straight, maybe a little whip but thats it.
id like to know how anyone else has found "straight" events to be.
andy
[Edit: PLEASE stop posting venue details - read the Guidelines! BT]
[ 06 March 2003: Message edited by: BigTrancer ]

 

[KeenSydGuy]

Originally posted by Aussie Andrew:

id like to know how anyone else has found "straight" events to be.
andy
For me it's about the music. Drugs sometimes help, sometimes don't. Going out straight, i could of recalled every track but 3 of armin's set @ *'s. I remembered 8 (out of close 2 25). For me that is devistating. I live for these songs, know every build up, every high hat, and I only remembered 8. Was a good night shite yeah, but for me it's about the music and straight is the only way for me. I've been pilling for a while, and have been to other events but this time it really hit home.
--KeenSydGuy
[Edit: Venue details removed. BigTrancer]
[ 06 March 2003: Message edited by: BigTrancer ]

 

[nzboyz]

You say you took your first pill last August, and the buzz wore off after about 20 times? That means you've done at least 20 pills in the last 6 months - over 3 per month... if it takes (as most people seem to agree) 3-4 weeks to get your serotonin levels up, not wonder you're not rolling properly... I'd go for taking a break

 

[Runner]

Could it be the group of friends you hang around with has changed and it's just not the same any more?
I find my pill experiences totally different when I am in a company of different people...

 

[gOOgster]

Im trying to have a break from MDMA, which has been a little difficult, but Im certainly getting there after developing quite a significant tolerance.
Anyway, one thing I have learnt though, is that when I am in my usual haunts, and after a few drinks, I find I can get into that "off tap" mindset. Whilst I certainly wouldnt go so far as to say that I am off guts, I can certainly recall/ remember the empathy and all the loved up feelings. By thinking along these lines, its certainly helped me cut back on my consumption and still have a really good night out - I guess its a matter of kind of fooling yourself into thinking that your off guts.
As far as being straight at big events, in trying to take a break, I have steered clear of them. I have been enjoying one bikkie and a few drinks at bars and some smaller clubs instead. That way if I do stuff up and indulge, its most likely that it will only be one or two, instead of six or seven, not to mention the sleep deprivation and the afterparties that inevitably follow (how I miss those afterparties...). But anyway, thats the choice I have made for now and im not suggesting that you need to do the same thing, its just my modus operandi.
PLUR

 

[hoptis]

Going out without pills, especially on a Saturday night is something I'm struggling to come to grips with too. My consumption and tolerance has hit the point where I know doing it every weekend is stupid and a waste of money (diminishing returns) and brain cells for less and less return.
I've found that I can have a good night straight or with a line of speed. It's especially harder for me because I don't like alcohol. I've found it helps to go out to music I really like and you can get into it without a pill.
I've pilled every weekend this year except last weekend. Last weekend I went out, had a line of speed, danced my arsed off and picked up. I know that every night like that is a step in the right direction. It's a matter of retraining your brain to enjoy going out without MDMA and leave it for one a month or so.
Plus, I miss the magic.