Detox Why does opioid withdrawal give flu like symptoms?

[Jabberwocky]

I am so sorry about your situation.
you are right about the opioid war being manufactured they have cashed in by hooking people on opiods and now are raking it in doubly by getting the money from suboxone and every person I know on suboxone is on pysch meds because I think that subs make you depressed my friends mom was on methadone the entire time I knew her even had my friend and her brother while on methadone and got kicked off for a dirty urine for weed they are in Pittsburg this is crazy bullshit which I never understood anyway if a person is trying to kick an IV drug problem are you really going to throw them off of methadone because they smoked a joint ? Thats beyond stupid but not the point. It wasn’t her first dirty UA they are purposely pushing everyone on to suboxone now she is a different person a miserable person and taking antidepressants for the first tIke in her life she is in her 60’s.
this may be that the opioid receptors that the suboxone blocks are blocking the ones that give joy too
the people I know who are getting clean by going on subs because pills are impossible to find are becoming unhappy pale versions of themselves
we know this supposed war on opiods isnt about saving lives there were more overdose deaths this year then ever before fentanyl is replacing heroin and here in ny it is almost impossible to find just dope anymore
my friend tested dirty for fentanyl at his methadone clinic and he had done a line of coke he lost his take homes and has to go in every day. I had to lecture him on how lucky he was to be on methadone and not on subs. I really think they are trying to phase it out.
their words say that they want people to be happy and free from addiction that they want to save lives but their actions say they want the population to be handcuffed to big pharma and miserable to be poly drug consumers just their drugs

and the marijuana legalization just shows how arbitrary these laws are
now weed the great gateway drug is fine

all along the worst drug of them all in my opinion has been legal; alcohol my best friend from college is a dyfs worker which child protective services but in New Jersey they call it division of child protection and permanency she always says they are the worst ones to deal with and it is the worst drug for your body. Maybe meth is worse now but it’s not really a problem here yet. It is here but it is not prevalent. Alcohol will give you wet brain in the long run and make you annoying and dangerous in the short run.

throughout history opiods have had a legal place in society

I read a book recently called drug use for grownups by a man who worked for NEDA running tests on what drugs did to humans and there was such interesting information in it. Anyone who uses drugs actually anyone should read this book. He uses heroin recreationally.

he was completely opposed to drugs and thought that they were the downfall of his community and then he realized it was the war on drugs that was the problem

he started to realize that these drug crusaders didn’t care about people they cared about keeping people from doing drugs when they didn’t want to make free testing kits available, if there was a safer way to use drugs more people would feel safer using drugs

but we know doesn’t really stop most people from using it just kills people

here in ny we now have free fentanyl test strips
I wouldn’t order them you probably go on some database to get pulled over and made to do a sobriety line dance

right now the war on drugs is killing people if there were still pain pills on the market people would be overdosing on fentanyl at a lower rate

I could literally write a novel on this subject it grinds my gears so badly so I’m going to shut up now

I am sorry that you cannot get the medication that would help you.
I wish this world wasn’t run by sharks who only care about lining their own pockets.

​

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[DeathIndustrial88]

I am so sorry about your situation.
you are right about the opioid war being manufactured they have cashed in by hooking people on opiods and now are raking it in doubly by getting the money from suboxone and every person I know on suboxone is on pysch meds because I think that subs make you depressed my friends mom was on methadone the entire time I knew her even had my friend and her brother while on methadone and got kicked off for a dirty urine for weed they are in Pittsburg this is crazy bullshit which I never understood anyway if a person is trying to kick an IV drug problem are you really going to throw them off of methadone because they smoked a joint ? Thats beyond stupid but not the point. It wasn’t her first dirty UA they are purposely pushing everyone on to suboxone now she is a different person a miserable person and taking antidepressants for the first tIke in her life she is in her 60’s.
this may be that the opioid receptors that the suboxone blocks are blocking the ones that give joy too
the people I know who are getting clean by going on subs because pills are impossible to find are becoming unhappy pale versions of themselves
we know this supposed war on opiods isnt about saving lives there were more overdose deaths this year then ever before fentanyl is replacing heroin and here in ny it is almost impossible to find just dope anymore
my friend tested dirty for fentanyl at his methadone clinic and he had done a line of coke he lost his take homes and has to go in every day. I had to lecture him on how lucky he was to be on methadone and not on subs. I really think they are trying to phase it out.
their words say that they want people to be happy and free from addiction that they want to save lives but their actions say they want the population to be handcuffed to big pharma and miserable to be poly drug consumers just their drugs

and the marijuana legalization just shows how arbitrary these laws are
now weed the great gateway drug is fine

all along the worst drug of them all in my opinion has been legal; alcohol my best friend from college is a dyfs worker which child protective services but in New Jersey they call it division of child protection and permanency she always says they are the worst ones to deal with and it is the worst drug for your body. Maybe meth is worse now but it’s not really a problem here yet. It is here but it is not prevalent. Alcohol will give you wet brain in the long run and make you annoying and dangerous in the short run.

throughout history opiods have had a legal place in society

I read a book recently called drug use for grownups by a man who worked for NEDA running tests on what drugs did to humans and there was such interesting information in it. Anyone who uses drugs actually anyone should read this book. He uses heroin recreationally.

he was completely opposed to drugs and thought that they were the downfall of his community and then he realized it was the war on drugs that was the problem

he started to realize that these drug crusaders didn’t care about people they cared about keeping people from doing drugs when they didn’t want to make free testing kits available, if there was a safer way to use drugs more people would feel safer using drugs

but we know doesn’t really stop most people from using it just kills people

here in ny we now have free fentanyl test strips
I wouldn’t order them you probably go on some database to get pulled over and made to do a sobriety line dance

right now the war on drugs is killing people if there were still pain pills on the market people would be overdosing on fentanyl at a lower rate

I could literally write a novel on this subject it grinds my gears so badly so I’m going to shut up now

I am sorry that you cannot get the medication that would help you.
I wish this world wasn’t run by sharks who only care about lining their own pockets.

​

​

Wow, how refreshing to see some one finally talking sense about opiates!!!
You are 100% correct!

I didn't go for methadone because I knew the going in all the time bullshit was gonna be hard for me to do. So I went with subs. At first they weren't that bad, they were, like you said, a paler version of what I was use to but it was "better than nothing" or dying from fentanyl at the time. But over time, this drug made me severely tired & depressed. It doesn't even resemble an opioid/opiate in a lot of ways. I even took some hydrocodone awhile back & it not only eliminated my depression for several hours, but I actually felt GOOD, like I could converse with people and enjoy life in the moment again. I never feel that on subs. I also don't feel like getting off them is the answer either, which leaves me with no other options unless I want to go out and try to find some one who might kill me with fentanyl. Which is ridiculous.

Hell even other countries offer morphine, dhc, tramadol, & even actual heroin for maintenance. But the US seems to be pretty stuck.

I have heard of that book before, but have never come across it or read it. But it sounds interesting. I've had a few people tell me about people out there who are writing books and what not sharing the exact same view that we do.

Hell, the people I use to get my heroin from had been using heroin since the 80's and 90's. These were over 40, 50 and even some 60 year olds. None of them were overdosing or had ever overdosed in all that time until around 2017 when fentanyl finally hit our area. Then they started overdosing left & right.

Everything you said is 10000% the truth. And it very much boils my blood also.
Not only does it take away a fundamental right to our bodily autonomy but it also insults us by making it look like they care about us & we're too stupid to know what's good for us.

I'm so very glad you see through all this BS. Thank you!

 

[jasperkent]

I'm glad to be off opioids for 2 reasons only: the expense and WDs if my connections dried up. Both directly caused by the criminalization of opioids.

My sources had legit scripts for oxy and hydro. If they were out, I went thru WDs cuz I was not going to take chances on pressed pills-- which are deadly as a direct result of opioid illegality.

When I had my supply I was the most stable, most productive, most content and serene I have ever been in my entire life.

Drug laws are so counterproductive it makes me sick. Literally!

And yes, Drug Use for Grownups by Dr. Carl Hart is an excellent read.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

I'm glad to be off opioids for 2 reasons only: the expense and WDs if my connections dried up. Both directly caused by the criminalization of opioids.

My sources had legit scripts for oxy and hydro. If they were out, I went thru WDs cuz I was not going to take chances on pressed pills-- which are deadly as a direct result of opioid illegality.

When I had my supply I was the most stable, most productive, most content and serene I have ever been in my entire life.

Drug laws are so counterproductive it makes me sick. Literally!

And yes, Drug Use for Grownups by Dr. Carl Hart is an excellent read.

Yes, Carl Hart was the other person I was thinking of! Thanks for reminding me! lol Thought that book sounded familiar. A little off kilter today.

 

[OrbitalCombustion]

All the other symptoms make sense. The mental symptoms, the pain/sore body. Easy to understand... but why does the body believe it is ill and start the runny nose/cough/sneezing? Does it have something to do with the immune system?

I've been sober for 19 days and still have this really annoying runny nose and sneezing which will not go away even after the other symptoms have subsided.

The sinus issues are caused by how opiates interact with histamine production.

 

[TheUltimateFixx]

Everything you just said is 100% on spot! Incredible!

It really makes you wonder why they'd want people to have more side effects (possibly permanent, life debilitating ones) rather than have them possibly feel the awful evil side effects of "euphoria" or "well-being", no way can we have that! That would be so cruel!

I know why they'd want that tho. And I truly believe that the "opioid crisis" was manufactured through artificial means (getting people hooked, then taking it away, inflating death counts by marking poly-drug overdoses as 'opioid overdoses' & then letting fentanyl run the streets). And now they're demonizing opiates & making access to them even harder because they "dont want us to be addicted". But they don't mind us being addicted to alcohol, tobacco, sugar & whatever other shitty legal things people consume on a daily basis. I truly believe they are doing it because they know how much opiates can treat a variety of issues and if they did that, then who would buy all their shitty antidepressants & antipsychotics and all the other garbage they poison us with.

They did the same thing to cannabis for the longest time. Now the world is coming around to their senses (although it's still illegal in a lot of places). But I feel like it's going to take a long time to bring the public back to reality with opiates. Especially with fentanyl killing people and ignorant masses believing "all opioids will kill you because people died from fentanyl". I try everywhere I go to express this problem to people (whether online or in real life) as I feel like being vocal is all I can do about it.

I have severe depression, have had to stop working, feel like I'm on the brink of homelessness all the time & have to stay in abusive relationships to keep a roof over my head. I also have movement disorders & other neurological and cognitive issues possibly thanks to the barrel full of psychiatric medicines I've been given over the past decade. Yet if I were able to take a few intranasal hits of diacetylmorphine a day, my life could totally turn around for the better. Or at least I'd be able to have a few moments of peace & relaxation a day.

But some how that behavior is bad, but drinking after a hard days work is okay (and in some cases, the right thing to do). I also find it peculiar that when I have opioids, my desire to use alcohol or "get fucked" totally disappears.

I do take buprenorphine, but it is not the same as a shorter acting full agonist. Those at least have a consistency to their effects when you dose, where as these mega long acting maintenance ones eventually build up to a point where no dose does anything. Some will argue that the same can happen with diacetylmorphine because of tolerance, but I found in all my years of using that once my tolerance hit a specific dosage, just taking that dosage may not have made me full blown high, but feeling "normal", like some one would if they were not depressed and what not. And I was alright with that. Plus you can adjust your tolerance a little easier with something a little shorter acting. Even when I could only use tramadol & grew a tolerance, I'd still hover around the 400mg spot and would be good for usually until I went to bed that day.

I had some one asking me the other day why their doctor wanted to put them on prozac, even though they haven't been diagnosed with any mental health problems & don't feel like they have depression. There is no doubt in my mind that this scenario happens a lot more than just this person & i'm sure they are making a killing on this shit (which a lot of also causes dependence).

Sorry, ranting here now, but I'm very passionate about opiates & think people need to have this discussion more about their benefits & all the myths and misinformation surrounding them.

If this shit was legal and produced under a state license, dispensed exclusively from specialist and again state-licensed outlets staffed by personnel with training akin to a pharmacist who could accurately advise on the effects, safe beginning dosage, risks and contra-indications of whatever substance, there is no bloody reason why it SHOULD be so dangerous. The reason it is dangerous is precisely BECAUSE it is illegalized. The illegal status and black market sourcing means the user has no idea of the degree of purity and therefore the strength, which can vary enormously and prevents accurate safe dosing. He also cannot know what contaminants his drug contains. A pharmaceutically pure opiate has no known negative effects on any of the body's organs.

Lack of accurate & rational information meanwhile ('drug education' being no such thing, but merely anti-drug propaganda limited to overblown scare tactics) leads to many users, especially novices, to be unaware of e.g. the risks of mixing an opiate with another sedative such as alcohol, or the lowering of tolerance after a period of abstinence.

The dangers of opiates are all too real in the current situation, but are not primarily due to the properties of the drug itself, but rather the conditions of illegality under which it is produced, sold and consumed. The 'drug deaths' that are a direct and avoidable result of prohibition are then cited by governments as justification of more of that same prohibition whose product they are in the first place.

 

[RedRum OG]

I'm seeing only one response with the world "histamine" ... isn't that the answer?

 

[Man67]

Hmmm, whenever I've come off opiates I can't recall runny nose, cough or sneezing, especially after a few weeks. You might actually just have a cold virus. Often during active addiction and then when coming off substances we neglect self care including good nutrition and sleep, which can lead to low immune system. So yeah you may genuinely be sick? Regardless I hope you feel better soon

Any point in taking general antibiotics?

 

[TheUltimateFixx]

Any point in taking general antibiotics?

OBVIOUSLY not.

Antibiotics only work against bacterial infections. It's pointless to take antibiotics for a common cold even because colds are caused by viruses, so an anti-bacterial agent will be entirely ineffective.

It's even MORE pointless to take antibiotics for something that's not any kind of infection. Just because some symptoms you experience mimick complaints you can get with an infection doesn't mean it's the same thing. Your body is merely thrown entirely out of whack because it's integrated the drug into its functioning and now the drug is not present. It's a readjustment, that's all. And yes sneezing and a runny nose are common. It's a physical reaction and nothing you can 'treat'.
.
PS honestly is this a joke post?! ... because you seem to lack the most fundamental educational basics of how diseases work, and why withdrawal syndrome isn't a disease process.

 

[edika]

Because of your immune system response. Your body acts like there is a foreign invader because you've removed the chemical messenger that tells your body that everything's okay, in layman's terms.

Any point in taking general antibiotics?

LOL. wut.

I wouldn't even take antibiotics for most bacterial infections, let alone any type of cold/flu. That's a surefire way to degrade your DNA/RNA and slowly kill your consciousness spark and 'zest'. To take it for something that isn't even close to a foreign invader causing you to become ill..... I think you must be joking. I wouldn't ever take antibiotics for anything unless it's incurable otherwise. No matter what. They are EXTREMELY harmful substances that should NOT be taken lightly. Deciding to take them is on the same level as deciding whether or not to get married, or to buy a car, etc. It's a extremely significant substance with significant effects, most of which are peripheral.

Opioid withdrawal sucks, but you will recover soon. There's absolutely no need, and in fact would be damaging to take anything other than comforting relaxing herbs/substances and supplements.

 

[Man67]

OBVIOUSLY not.

Antibiotics only work against bacterial infections. It's pointless to take antibiotics for a common cold even because colds are caused by viruses, so an anti-bacterial agent will be entirely ineffective.

It's even MORE pointless to take antibiotics for something that's not any kind of infection. Just because some symptoms you experience mimick complaints you can get with an infection doesn't mean it's the same thing. Your body is merely thrown entirely out of whack because it's integrated the drug into its functioning and now the drug is not present. It's a readjustment, that's all. And yes sneezing and a runny nose are common. It's a physical reaction and nothing you can 'treat'.
.
PS honestly is this a joke post?! ... because you seem to lack the most fundamental educational basics of how diseases work, and why withdrawal syndrome isn't a disease process.

Never experienced withdrawal before. Understand?

 

[Man67]

Because of your immune system response. Your body acts like there is a foreign invader because you've removed the chemical messenger that tells your body that everything's okay, in layman's terms.



LOL. wut.

I wouldn't even take antibiotics for most bacterial infections, let alone any type of cold/flu. That's a surefire way to degrade your DNA/RNA and slowly kill your consciousness spark and 'zest'. To take it for something that isn't even close to a foreign invader causing you to become ill..... I think you must be joking. I wouldn't ever take antibiotics for anything unless it's incurable otherwise. No matter what. They are EXTREMELY harmful substances that should NOT be taken lightly. Deciding to take them is on the same level as deciding whether or not to get married, or to buy a car, etc. It's a extremely significant substance with significant effects, most of which are peripheral.

Opioid withdrawal sucks, but you will recover soon. There's absolutely no need, and in fact would be damaging to take anything other than comforting relaxing herbs/substances and supplements.

At least I didn't have a CLOT JAB. Herbal supplements and alternative "medicine" are scam of the century.

 

[Man67]

Because of your immune system response. Your body acts like there is a foreign invader because you've removed the chemical messenger that tells your body that everything's okay, in layman's terms.



LOL. wut.

I wouldn't even take antibiotics for most bacterial infections, let alone any type of cold/flu. That's a surefire way to degrade your DNA/RNA and slowly kill your consciousness spark and 'zest'. To take it for something that isn't even close to a foreign invader causing you to become ill..... I think you must be joking. I wouldn't ever take antibiotics for anything unless it's incurable otherwise. No matter what. They are EXTREMELY harmful substances that should NOT be taken lightly. Deciding to take them is on the same level as deciding whether or not to get married, or to buy a car, etc. It's a extremely significant substance with significant effects, most of which are peripheral.

Opioid withdrawal sucks, but you will recover soon. There's absolutely no need, and in fact would be damaging to take anything other than comforting relaxing herbs/substances and supplements.

So you are on drugs but wouldn't take antibiotics? Interesting theory...