Why do drugs help ?

[rocko]

For the past 2-3 years, I have been trying to figure out why drugs help and I am beginning to believe more and more it must be neurobiological problems.

I have had anxiety and depression problems going back into my early teens where there my whole perspective of the world and life went down the pan. Loss of enjoyment, interest, confidence, social interaction etc. It was like my brain chemistry just got all screwed up and the whole world seemed a horrible place and with that it never got better and has remained ever since. I am now 23 yrs old.

Over the years, I eventually got help and went to therapy and was put on antidepressants. This helped somewhat for a while. But inevitably, the antidepressants caused more problems such as emotional numbness and mental and physical fatigue. I got off them in the end but the newly added emotional numbness and physical fatigue problems remained.

More recently I discovered opiates after being prescribed them for surgery of a separate health issue. I found both with Tramadol and Codeine that they gave me a new lease of life. I was felt energised again both mentally and physically and I became interested and happier about things again. It felt as though something was finally fixed in my head. But of course, this led to abuse of opiates and in turn meant I had to eventually come off them. So now, my life has gone back to being as it was before opiates.

I am wondering if anyone else here can share their experiences, as I think it would be interesting to know the correlation between health/mental problems and recreational drugs working/helping people.

 

[Help me please]

Rocko, I started on Vicodin before knee surgery and then, after the surgery was deemed a mess, I went to norco and then oxymorphone with norco for BT pain. A few weeks ago I asked my PM Dr to get me off all this stuff and am now down to Morphine Sulfate IR 30 mgs every 8 hours. I hope to get off it all 100% in the next few months.

I do vaguely recall prior to my surgery getting a bit of an energy boost from the Vicodins. After surgery, my dose was doubled and all I did was sleep but I was leaking spinal fluid for a few weeks so that was a good thing! I never got any "buzz" off of any of these opiates at ll. Yesterday I spoke to a woman who works at an in house rehab and she said she finds it hard to believe that the oxymorphone did not get me stoned!

All I can say is if I knew what WD would be like I would never have taken any of these pills. I thought WD was for heroin! My family does enjoy telling me I am a drug addict. I am not a kid! My kids are all adults! If I don't jump when they say jump them it's because mom is stoned! Part of why I want off these pills is to stop them from being able to say shit even though we all know it's not true. I will live with the severe pain and then maybe get the knee replaced in January if I can find a surgeon to do it with a spinal.

It isn't worth it to start down this road. Even with people simply taking the pills under a doctor's care it still leads to addiction and bullshit. I talked to a guy at the doctor's office who has kids that steal his pills and he hides the shit too! He said he lied to the doctor to get him to up his BT meds so he has more than he needs so he has enough to cover his pain. That's not a way to live life!

Sorry I can't say a thing about recreational use.

 

[Ixchellian]

Rocko, I started on Vicodin before knee surgery and then, after the surgery was deemed a mess, I went to norco and then oxymorphone with norco for BT pain. A few weeks ago I asked my PM Dr to get me off all this stuff and am now down to Morphine Sulfate IR 30 mgs every 8 hours. I hope to get off it all 100% in the next few months.

.......

It isn't worth it to start down this road. Even with people simply taking the pills under a doctor's care it still leads to addiction and bullshit. I talked to a guy at the doctor's office who has kids that steal his pills and he hides the shit too! He said he lied to the doctor to get him to up his BT meds so he has more than he needs so he has enough to cover his pain. That's not a way to live life!

Sorry I can't say a thing about recreational use.

Exactly right. I got started on tramadol, and then percocet by the Army docs. Then one day I mentioned that they didn't seem to be working as good as when I first started, I got put on morphine IR & ER, 15mg each, x4 a day. From there, 30mg, then by the time I got out I was on 30mg MS IR "as needed for breakthrough pain", and 60mg MS ER x3 a day. And yeh know.... my back & knee still hurt like a sonofabitch, AND I had a raging morphine addiction. (I was taking waaay more than perscribed)
Guess what.... I had been playing by the rules at the start, then starting on morphine kicked dope-fiendish-ness into high gear.

The docs get you dependant on opiates, then when it's obvious you're a "drug-seeker", they'll cut you off cold turkey. Not fun. Then it's our fault that we have to turn to street drugs.

I decided I had a problem after slamming a meth/heroin speedball, smoking more shards, eating two tabs of mescaline, and smoking a lot of grass.... all in about 2hrs. My back STILL hurt. And I realized that I'd just ingested an amount of drugs that would kill an opiate/ampetamine-naive person..... like me, just a little over a year before. And yet I just felt.... tripping, because that mescaline was really good.

Sure, drugs help... Opiates like morphine are a godsend for people with horrific wounds. While I was in the hospital waiting to get flown out, my section was right across from the trauma ward/tent, and they brought in an Iraqi missing a leg. He was thrashing and moaning from the pain, until they stuck that spike straight into the IV shunt and gave him a shot of the good stuff. Definitely morphine, and probably a sedative too. Anyways he went completely calm.... conscious, and trying to talk to the docs working on him. You could tell he was still in pain and distressed, but wow, the switch-over from agony to managable pain with/without heavy sedation was impressive.

But for chronic pain? At what point is a doctor breaking the Hippocratic oath by refilling a chronic pain sufferers' script, when they should damn-well know how opiates cause dependancy? If opiates are withdrawn and a substitute is needed, what then? But dare not to ask for a substitution, 9/10 times you'll get labelled a drug-seeker for being dependant and having built up a tolerance.

Hmmmm.... it's a conundrum of a conundrum.

 

[mdmantpa]

There are studies out (i dont have the links handy) showing opiates being as effective if not more effective than typical antidepressants. The codiene class of opiates seems to be most effective as an AD. As for the past AD's losing effectiveness do you mind sharing which ones you tried? I have jsut recently gotten back onto Wellbutrin XL and I swear by it, after taking every SSRI, SNRI, and A few Tricylcics I found Wellbutrin to be amazing. It works on the Dopamine and Norepinepherine instead of the serotonin in the brain.

If you could go on a low dose of oxycodone...about 5-15mg max per day for use offlabel as an antidepressant studies have shown that it works more effectively than the other classes of AD's.

HOpefully some of that might of helped ya :/

 

[Help me please]

But for chronic pain? At what point is a doctor breaking the Hippocratic oath by refilling a chronic pain sufferers' script, when they should damn-well know how opiates cause dependancy? If opiates are withdrawn and a substitute is needed, what then? But dare not to ask for a substitution, 9/10 times you'll get labelled a drug-seeker for being dependant and having built up a tolerance.

Hmmmm.... it's a conundrum of a conundrum.

Exactly Ix. I think for someone like me the PM dr should ask me to take a drug break to see how bad the pain is without any opiates. I did a lot today and am in pain. Yes, it is more than when I was taking the oxymorphone and a month ago I would have been taking 2 norco right now. I'm not though! I don't think I have seen any obvious drug seekers at the dr's office yet. Most of us have appointments the same day and times so we talk in the waiting room. I'll definitely say I am the person who looks most like an addict, lol. Never judge a book...

 

[a2lambretta]

I have to say that it is very easy to become sick of taking pain medication. Although I think that many people forget the situation they were in at the beginning of the medication. Honestly, withdrawal is bad, but if done properly it isn't really that bad.

My formula is to go onto a high enough dose of Suboxone, up to 24mg/day at the beginning, tapering that down to less than 1mg/day within 1 month. Then to get through the 2 or so weeks of Suboxone withdrawal, have a sufficient amount of Hydrocodone. Then if you have the will power, it is fairly easy to just stop taking Hydrocodone if you are careful about it.

 

[TJ5]

Yes I'm going through the very same problem you're complaining about. Granted, I've been a binge user on & off 27 years & am very much an addict BUT I always eventually returned to my baseline energy level up until mid 2008. This meant I could binge on meth & 3 days after stopping I'd feel halfway human & in 3 wks fine without drugs (ADD symptoms aside off meth.) It's the same with my Rx pills I've been taking on & off many years. During a daily heavy use for 1, 2 yrs+ it took a while several months before I felt ok without dope.

I got clean off all drugs/alcohol Dec 2006 & stayed clean 2007 but took Tramadol in 2008 for a couple wks - biggest mistake of my life. I struggled for a year to get off of them, but unlike traditional meth & opiates I never did get my physical energy level back & lost the ability to experience enjoyment from doing the things I enjoyed doing clean prior to the Tramadol use & I tried 9 months to taper until finally I couldn't tolerate the suffering of being tired 24/7 no matter how much sleep a day I got or didn't get. I was tired from the second I woke up until I went to bed again.

I tried Weight Watchers, regular exercise 3 x a week, going to NA 3 x a week, telling my MD who ran a shit load of blood work totaling $600--my portion after insurance that is & she couldn't find anything wrong. Out of money to spend on tests & working at a job that does not give paid sick or vacation days, I did what I had to do to survive having to maintain a job 5-6 shifts/wk & to be awake without feeling like a depleted joyless wad fighting to keep from falling asleep on the job in spite of having slept 9 hrs before work.

My threshold for suffering had been reached knowing for a fact that although I'd have to maintain an ongoing habit, I would nevertheless be granted relief for the day. Thats been the case with me since my official relapse in March of 2009. Financially it sucks having to buy Rx & my weekly allottment of meth, but it sucks less than even the thought of feeling the way I did before meth/opiate Rx & after tramadol. I've been contemplating asking doc for a script for vyvanse to treat both chronic fatigue and ADD. I won't get high on vyvanse, as it's a much weaker drug than IV meth. Still, I'm willing to forego the IV meth in favor of legitimate, legal "treatment," but then again I'm not counting on it. For all I know I'll be perceived as a drug seeker & doc may frown on giving me vyvanse when she's already had me on my Rx for ongoing migraines. I've stuck with one Rx for pain only, as oxy, heroin, percs, methadone don't touch my pain, yet curiously enough fiorinal/codeine (my Rx) works like a charm for pain and/or cop a buzz as well as help temporarily restore my brain chemistry so I can tolerate, even enjoy merely going about activities of daily living & work.

There's a defininte difference from the days when I was suffering w/ds that sucked but eventually went away after a couple weeks or months, whereas after tramadol this crap went on continuously 9 months until I said fuck it. Enter meth & painkillers. Exit fatigue/ADD/apathy cursed existence....for a day at least. After which = another day, another dose. It's preferable to the apathetic killjoy quality as the alternative though.

 

[b4rd]

You are flooding endorphins, and the point of "painkiller" medications are to not make you feel anything. So, on opiates, you are not feeling like your normal, sober self.