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Why did I get a bad interaction from MDA + Ketamine?

L

lab slave

Bluelighter
Joined
Sep 13, 2011
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I am a veteran drug user and I like to think I know what I'm doing. However two nights ago I went to a party and took two doses of 80 milligram MDA, so in total 160mg. I was totally floored but had a great time. Later in the morning about 6am I took a low dose of ketamine, approximately 80mg. I had already tried this ketamine the week previously, along with several friends, and although it was a little trippier than expected, I put it down to being s-isomer heavy. The duration, taste, look etc was all consistent with ketamine. On this occasion however, the k-trip just didn't end as expected. The fuzziness of the ketamine wore off and left me wired awake. Time crawled, the daylight hurt my eyes, it was absolutely awful. I was expecting to feel tired and sleepy but I was painfully, super awake to the world. My friend who did exactly the same drugs as me didn't experience this at all, she was fine and went to sleep. I struggled for the next few hours, with no real change in symptoms, in fact at 12.00pm I couldn't detect any improvement from 8am. My anxiety levels were off the charts. Eventually I got hold of enough valium to knock myself out. I slept for many hours and I feel much better today, although far from 100%.

I'm wondering if this was a mild form of serotonin syndrome, maybe triggered by a bad drug combination. Or could it have been some adulterant in the ketamine? What can I do to avoid this in future?
 
It was the MDA combined with the energy some feel after a ketamine experience. That’s a decent dosage which meant a rough comedown was likely coming, and the R isomer just lingers and lingers. I remember one MDA experience I could hardly sleep afterwards despite feeling tired and rough, it’s why I don’t use it alone anymore. Better mixed with MDMA.

Also I notice with ketamine the afterglow quickly changes to comedown if you’ve used it recently enough.

That’s my take on it.

-GC
 
Mjäll said:
Maybe it's a glutamate rebound after ketamine combined with serotonin depletion causing non-cozyness galore
Click to expand...
Thanks all for the responses! What's a glutamate rebound exactly? I did a quick google search and couldn't really turn anything up, although apparently glutamine rebounds are due to alcohol withdrawal. If you point me in the right direction I'll look into it.

I love that you guys came up with an esoteric neurochemistry answer for my question, though. What a quality forum this is. Respect and thanks.
 
lab slave said:
Thanks all for the responses! What's a glutamate rebound exactly? I did a quick google search and couldn't really turn anything up, although apparently glutamine rebounds are due to alcohol withdrawal. If you point me in the right direction I'll look into it.

I love that you guys came up with an esoteric neurochemistry answer for my question, though. What a quality forum this is. Respect and thanks.
Click to expand...

It's a sloppy way for me to express that because ketamine acts counter to some mechanisms of the excitatory neurotransmitter glutamate, one may get excess glutamate signalling as the ketamine wears off. Glutamate is related to stress and neurotoxicity, even the onset of dementia with prolonged elevated levels. To use ketamine and similar drugs is to play with this neurotransmitter system. The immediate effect is blissful, but i think heavy use can cause something like receptor upregulation and disturb the natural balance so that one's sober state is a bit over-excited as the nervous system anticipates and expects ketamine. Similar things happen with many drugs of abuse. If used occasionally, it's probably more of a learning experience than a health hazard. At least that's what i choose to believe.

This is a fellow drug nerd guesstimation and not a researcher talking.
 
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Mjäll said:
It's a sloppy way for me to express that because ketamine acts counter to some mechanisms of the excitatory neurotransmitter glutamate, one may get excess glutamate signalling as the ketamine wears off. Glutamate is related to stress and neurotoxicity, even the onset of dementia with prolonged elevated levels. To use ketamine and similar drugs is to play with this neurotransmitter system. The immediate effect is blissful, but i think heavy use can cause something like receptor upregulation and disturb the natural balance so that one's sober state is a bit over-excited as the nervous system anticipates and expects ketamine. Similar things happen with many drugs of abuse. If used occasionally, it's probably more of a learning experience than a health hazard. At least that's what i choose to believe.

This is a fellow drug nerd guesstimation and not a researcher talking.
Click to expand...

This pretty much.

Ketamines euphoric afterglow effect also likely comes from a quick maturation of neurons, similar to the antidepressant effect of neurogenesis but immediate. Problem I’ve found is those mature neurons will eventually die and there will be a slight dip in mood a week or so after use.

I say this as I’ve found after the initial boost in mood of one dose, I don’t usually get much mood boost following a dose if I use the next week or two. “Ketamine afterglow tolerance” takes awhile to abate.

If you hadn’t used K prior to this experience you may have faired better from that neuron maturation and subsequent antidepressant effect but as you know..

Perfect storm of MDA comedown, glutamate rebound, and tolerance to ketamines ability to quickly mature neurons.

-GC
 
I've found that some indica and a few Coronas work infinitely better than K for mdxx comedowns. K just prolongs the recovery time. It smooths it out for sure but I get the mild spins. Next day after 140+84+84 mdma then a few beers and bud and I'm raking the leaves instead of listening to Godflesh and Sunn0))) all spaced out and dizzy 😵.
 
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