Bupe What the hell happened to me ? Suboxone IV

[kanyeknievel]

Okay, so I am fine now .. but I was scared to shit last night and thought something was seriously wrong and just hoping I would be okay.

Thankfully I am.

But what in the hell happened and why?

I was reading up on suboxone FILM STRIP and IV and I wanted to try to get a high off of suboxone (I am prescribed it, but take Kratom.. but still can't get 'high' off a high dose of suboxone) so I tried it out. I have taken 32mg both rectally and sublingually (some of both) one night, so I am able to handle a high dose of Bupe.

I had started off with 2mg because I read that was the best thing to do, and I wasn't sure what would happen. I IVed 2mg.. nothing . I then did 4mg, then 2 and then 2.. a few times throughout the day thinking okay..THIS time it will work.

THEN the LAST one I had, before I was going to sleep.. to hopfully put me to sleep, it was the best shot I did all day (I am not good at shooting, I missed some yesterday but I knew I was missing so I immediately stopped and I have no lumps) . I had let 2mg sit for 20 minutes, I then put cotton in.. filtered that out.. then put it into another cotton and put that liquid + some water into the syringe (Since suboxone strips are hard to shoot due to them being thick and not going through the tiny hole.

SO.. I did that last shot with absolutely NO problem, it went in perfectly and no mark could be seen. After about 10 minutes my legs started, very very gradually, to tingle.. then into my foot. At this point I was worried since this heat/tingling has NEVER happened with ANY drug i've done, and that is basically all of them. It kept getting more and more intense.. then it spread through my entire body and I was scared. I had this tingling/heat sensation that spread and gradually got more intense.

I had JUST take PM pills (to sleep) as I always do about 45min before the shot.. so by the time it was in full effect, I could have fallen asleep (maybe).. I felt the best thing to do was wait it out.. hoping it would disapate slowly. I reassured myself a bunch of times, and I ended up ... cold... not COLD... but a weird chill/cold feeling throughout my body with the tingling and such. I thought things like blood clot, or some type of heart / respitory problem that would maybe cause me to have a heart attack or complications.. I had no idea what was happening.

I ended up scared, in a fetal position on my bed waiting it out.. trying to look on the laptop at the same time but gave up with that. I was cold, but not COLD. I was thingly/heat sensation all over my body and that was all I could do... eventually it went away. But what happened???

Needless to say, I won't be IVing suboxone or anything else again for that matter.

 

[clubcard]

Sounds like the naloxone got you. I've known others shoot the pills & after 20 minutes feeling shit, the buprenorphine (which had a higher affinity to the mu receptors) might just have taken it's own sweet time.

Glad you are OK - lesson learnt.

 

[kanyeknievel]

Sooo.. given 'clubcards' post, I figured that it was Nalxone .. but I don't believe this is the answer because.. it happened AGAIN LAST NIGHT??

So I didn't use suboxone since Friday, that was when this first... tingling, cold.. but I wasn't cold, spreading through-out my body thing happened. BUT then last night, two days after suboxone use it happened again.

I have had Fentanyl Matrix Patches since saturday, I have( had) 3 75s and I know how to use them responsibily and know what to do and not to do. I chew them, but not all at once obviously. I was pretty high I'd say during this, and I had just the normal amount chewing/buccal , and I was sitting at my computer playing Dota 2, but stopped to watch Walking Dead. Suddenly, the tingly feeling came back into my legs first, then feet.. and I knew it was the same thing as the other day.

I sat there and slowly I tingled and got this "cold" feeling, but I wasn't cold. My skin was cold it felt like, but that was it. I ended up impulsively like crossing my legs together tightly because that was my body's response. Then it lead up all the way through my arms and body , and I didn't freak out because I knew this happened the other day and it would go away soon.. But I had goosebumps like CRAZY on my arms and body. I was sitting in my chair and hunching over cause I couldn't sit with my back straight.. I needed to like curl up sort've. This caused my lower back to hurt a lot because it was very tense and the muscle tension from basically doing a sit-up/crunch type of position.

I couldn't do anything besides it in the chair and cross my arms and crossed my legs and pressed them together fairly hard, and having to keep hunching over with muscle tension in my back. It was so weird.. it was very very very uncomfortable, but I knew it would pass soon so I was okay. But it lasted about the same length as the other day, it started slowly.. gradually spread and got more intense then disappated fairly quickly after 20-30 mins.


What the hell is happening? It wasn't withdrawal or precipitated withdrawal, or anything like that. All I had done the entire day was , just one time see if IVing adderall did anything ( it just worked quick , no rush. I double filtered it as much as possible, but that was in the morning. Besides that all I did was clean my entire room, play guitar a little, then dota 2 and chewing/buccal fentanyl the whole day.. I don't understand what this is since it clearly wasn't the Naloxone .

 

[hydrobliss]

Sounds like Cotton Fever to me.....Obtain different cotton..... it is caused by tiny microbiotics that inhabit cotton... isnt dagerous or fatal but is absolute hell when its severe

 

[Non Nobis Solum]

Histamine release.. Try taking a anti-histamine with your opioids/opiates.. I am not saying put them in a rig and shoot them up together.. Take the anti-histamine 20-45 minutes before dosing.

 

[RTrain]

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/612706-Would-you-describe-this-as-Cotton-Fever

This thread has someone describe a pretty similar issue, but they are IV'ing heroin. So cotton fever seems quite possible, though there is the fact that you only IV'd something in the morning. Seems unlikely cotton fever would hit you so long after injecting.

One of the Mods mentioned that too much heroin could be the person in the above thread's cause for their symptoms. I also think this could be a possibility.

Not sure how one would deduce the OPs problem is a result of a histamine release. There is no mention to any pruritus, hives, or breathing issues.

 

[Tommyboy]

So you didn't IV anything for a few days and then it happened again on its own? Maybe you have an infection or something that started last time you IV'd, and the symptoms come on in waves.

 

[THE_REAL_OBLIVION]

Sounds like Cotton Fever to me.....Obtain different cotton..... it is caused by tiny microbiotics that inhabit cotton... isnt dagerous or fatal but is absolute hell when its severe

yep, the getting really cold/chilly like from fever reminded me of cotton fever right away.

 

[Slum Survivor]

sounds more like PW to me... but i dont have much exp with cotton fever.

but the OP is certainly PW... he was mixing kratom in with bupe... so the bupe started taking over the receptors. same with the fent patch. once that fent peaked, u still had bupe in your system so it became the dominant drug once enough fent was there and gone. i believe you had PWs both times. they suck dont they?? u should have told us if your pupils were big or bigger than normal for the light given. any GI issues?? any bad anxiety?? u should have checked your temp too... if u had a fever u would tell easily by checking your temp. PW is much more likely.

its not the naloxone that gives PWs the naloxone is not part of this most likely. it wears off fast, and bupe has a higher binding affinity for the receptors. only thing is, bupe passes the BBB slowly, i believe... but u IV'd it. so naloxone REALLY cant be part of it then... the bupe and naloxone would "hit the brain" at the same time when u IV. thats why u can IV suboxone and not just subutex. at least i think so... only thing im unsure of is the BBB thing and how fast bupe hits your brain even thru IV. cuz subutex didnt kick in ANY faster for me than suboxone when IV. ever... always felt exactly the same.

dr's and pharmacists are stupid as all hell, or at least brain-washed, for believing that the naloxone has any of the effects that they think it does, except negative side effects in certain individuals who are "sensitive to naloxone" as the industry puts it. i got in a HUGE argument at the pharm recently about it. it really pissed me off, and the lady was like "u shouldnt believe everything u hear on the net" stupid bitch. i wanted to go back there and crack her upside the head, for real. trust me i embarassed her tho. asked her a few Q's that she stumbled on and tried to feed me lies. asked her if she ever heard of the NAABT or Dr J. she tried to say yes, but it was obvious she was trying to rush me away. she didnt know the NAABT from the NRA. dumb bitch.

either way... u certainly could have gave yourself cotton fever too. shooting subs makes that easy to happen. and it sounds like u werent very sterile.
u could have had PW and CF... dont shoot subs. dont even plug them or snort them. gawd. there is no reason. u can use vodka to raise the BA of taking subs the way you are supposed to sublingually (imagine that).

u just put a fraction of a shot's worth of decent vodka(any liquor, vodka being best) in your mouth along with your sub tab/film and let it sit in there together and dissolve as normal. it worked for me the very first time, i was able to cut my dose in half. i continued to lower it easily doing that too. now i have a ton of extra subs, and dont need to do anything crazy like plug or shoot.

plus IV subs wear off much faster. just do the vodka subL thing people. please. dont shoot bupe. its not worth it. no difference to speak of. ive done it plenty of times... im trying to get people to stop shooting these subs... only advantage is speed of onset (which still isnt instant) and full-filling a needle fetish. pretty soon they will end up making them into some damn hard as concrete pill concoction if people keep showing up in ER's and losing limbs because they chose to shoot they're subs and screwed up once, or one too many times. plus it KILLS your veins. quick.

any Q's just PM me. or use the awesome SEARCH in the upper left corner. its a google bluelight only search. great feature of BL. i wish i could afford to donate. this site taught me most everything i know about this and many other topics. very useful tool. very good HR site when used properly.

but i think u got PWs man. dont IV subs again. lesson learned. however:

if this persists u need medical attention, regardless of anything u read here or elsewhere on the net.

 

[ohiojosh09]

*not being sarcastic or hypocritical..why are you going IV with stuff?? are you bored and entertaining yourself?

 

[Slum Survivor]

yeah u have bad IV habits it sounds like... that will give u an infection easily. goto a dr if u dont get better man. or better yet the ER. and be honest with them.

 

[-Guido-]

You can't IV Suboxone. There is a reason they put Nalaxone in it. It's to prevent IV abuse. You can only get away IVin'g straight Bupe.

When you take Suboxone orally, the Bupe gets absorbed while the Nalaxone really doesn't. When you IV it, the Nalaxone manages to make it's way you receptors 100% and has a much higher affinity to the receptors than the Bupe so you go into withdrawal. Whatver other opiates or oiods you have in your system the Nalaxone kicks them off the receptors.

It's the same reason why you go into withdrawal when your a heroin addict and then IV you Nalaxone (Narcan). I remember years ago when I fell out, as I came to as the paramedics were prepping a shot of Narcan. I tried to tell them to fuck off but they wouldn't listen and it felt like I was being dipped in liquid nitrogen and my heart rate went up, and skin got clammy. Luckily for me by the time I got to hospital it wore off and I was back in Noddingham Palace and well enough to sneak out.

 

[RTrain]

Not caused PW's or naloxone because he had the same issue while sitting there high on Fent, days after last using any Subs. It seems most likely a result of a infection from IV'ing or something odd going in in the brain from a high dose of opioids. It could also be from something completely unrelated to the drugs at all, or an underlying with symptoms exacerbated by drug use.

 

[Blind Melon]

I'll tell you the problem. You're shooting a drug with no recreational value. How do you expect to get high? I take Bupe to get through my day.... but if I wanted to catch a buzz I'd sooner swallow Dramamine (oddly enough I like it at medium doses, but deliriants scare me at higher doses, plus I don't really enjoy them that much). All that to say, Suboxone don't make junkies high my friend. If you wanna have your cake and eat it too I suggest you get on MMT, with a quickness. Plus, I hope you know suboxone/Subutex/bupe has a ceiling dose. The company says its 32mg. In my experience it's 24mgs. I'm currently taking 12-14mgs a day, and if I eat an extra sub on top of that I feel absolutely no different. But if I was to just take 8mgs I'd be sick. I hate this drug, but now I'm trapped until my finances improve and I can hop back on that sweet, sweet Methadone. Man I miss Methadone, took that everyday for 5 years straight, and every single time I got high (you see---you can do Opiates everyday your whole life and live healthy, it's the needle and the cuts in the smack that fuck you, not the Opiates---they mean you no harm, just let them love you).

 

[Uber_Penguin]

Good lord, I don't want to be a naysayer, but you're getting some trash responses here.

First off, to respond to what guido and club said, the idea of not being able to IV suboxone is entirely bullshit. People regularly IV suboxone with no problem whatsoever, I've done it before, you can absolute IV suboxone and despite what some idiotic doctors who just parrot what they're told may say it will absolutely not put you into withdrawals. As slum indicated, buprenorphine has a higher binding affinity than naloxone. When they're both present the buprenorphine wins out, the naloxone may as well not even be there. Plus, the idea that IVing would somehow cause withdrawal is even more retarded because both chemicals would absorb either way. It doesn't matter if you take it sublingually, snort it, or shoot it, you'll still be getting both buprenorphine and naloxone regardless.

Actually, I believe I recall being told that the reason naloxone is in there is allegedly because it gave reckitt benkisser (sp?) the ability to renew the patent on suboxone due to having changed the formulation, which would disallow the creation of a generic for another 5 years or whatever it was. That may not be true or I could be remembering incorrectly, but I figured I'd throw it out there.

As to what slum said about precipitated withdrawal though, that doesn't make much sense. First off, I'm pretty sure kratom does not work through activation of opiate receptors, I believe it works through some other very strange conglomeration of receptors. I'm almost positive I recall reading and being told that you can take both substances at the same time.
Either way though, Slum's claim about the fentanyl and precipitated withdrawal would just straight up not work; the only time one gets put into PWs is if they took a full agonist opiate AND THEN took suboxone. It does not work the other way around; in that case the suboxone would simply block the effects of the other opiate to a degree. Taking suboxone then taking another opiate does not cause PWs. Therefore, unless you took the fentanyl THEN took suboxone afterwards, it is impossible that suboxone would've been causing precipitated withdrawal.

Of course unfortunately, with cotton fever and precipitated withdrawal out of the equation, I don't think that leaves very many options, and the ones that ARE there aren't very favorable. For example, when a person talks about getting chills the first thing that always comes to mind for me is infection of some sort, and seeing as you sound like you don't have terribly good IV practices (or possibly very good judgment in general...), my limited medical knowledge would make me wonder if you didn't have some kind of infection in your circulatory system or something along those lines.

It's very tough to say though. If I had to make a judgment call I'd say to see if this phenomenon continues, and if it does or especially if it gets any worse don't be afraid to go see a doctor. They're doctors, they aren't legally allowed to rat on you and they're trained to deal with this kind of stuff, it's not like any doctor hasn't dealt with drug users and their issues so ya don't have to feel weird going in there. I realize that it's tempting to just try to ignore stuff like that as it's a big pain in the ass having to go to the doctor, but whenever IVing is involved at any point it's usually best to make time. Shooting can lead to a lot of relatively serious complications, and there are a lot of people out there who blew off visiting a doctor when they recognized that something was wrong and wound up really, really regretting it.

Sorry if this is all a little disjointed, it's very late and I'm nodding off a tad, so I'll end it here by saying that no matter what you do good luck and be careful.

 

[boundforglorywt]

You can't IV Suboxone. There is a reason they put Nalaxone in it. It's to prevent IV abuse. You can only get away IVin'g straight Bupe.

When you take Suboxone orally, the Bupe gets absorbed while the Nalaxone really doesn't. When you IV it, the Nalaxone manages to make it's way you receptors 100% and has a much higher affinity to the receptors than the Bupe so you go into withdrawal. Whatver other opiates or oiods you have in your system the Nalaxone kicks them off the receptors.

It's the same reason why you go into withdrawal when your a heroin addict and then IV you Nalaxone (Narcan). I remember years ago when I fell out, as I came to as the paramedics were prepping a shot of Narcan. I tried to tell them to fuck off but they wouldn't listen and it felt like I was being dipped in liquid nitrogen and my heart rate went up, and skin got clammy. Luckily for me by the time I got to hospital it wore off and I was back in Noddingham Palace and well enough to sneak out.

what do you mean you CAN'T IV suboxone.. I've been IV'ing it going on 3 months straight, both strips and pills (depending on what my shit insurance decides to cover that month) at anywhere from 3-4mg per shot about 3/4 times a day.

In my 3 months of doing so I have never encountered any sort of problem, I also personally know 5 other people who do it and never had and problem, they've been doing it a lot longer then I have.

 

[RTrain]

I'll tell you the problem. You're shooting a drug with no recreational value. How do you expect to get high? I take Bupe to get through my day.... but if I wanted to catch a buzz I'd sooner swallow Dramamine (oddly enough I like it at medium doses, but deliriants scare me at higher doses, plus I don't really enjoy them that much). All that to say, Suboxone don't make junkies high my friend. If you wanna have your cake and eat it too I suggest you get on MMT, with a quickness. Plus, I hope you know suboxone/Subutex/bupe has a ceiling dose. The company says its 32mg. In my experience it's 24mgs. I'm currently taking 12-14mgs a day, and if I eat an extra sub on top of that I feel absolutely no different. But if I was to just take 8mgs I'd be sick. I hate this drug, but now I'm trapped until my finances improve and I can hop back on that sweet, sweet Methadone. Man I miss Methadone, took that everyday for 5 years straight, and every single time I got high (you see---you can do Opiates everyday your whole life and live healthy, it's the needle and the cuts in the smack that fuck you, not the Opiates---they mean you no harm, just let them love you).

^This is straying off the OP's topic, but I can relate. Bupe is not a good option if you are still craving the high, it really doesn't help with cravings that much. Although, I will say that Bupe does give me something along the lines of an opiate buzz. Thing is you get that first buzz in the morning, which lasts around 2 hours, and it takes like an hour for me to even feel it, then it builds for 1/2 hour, plateaus a few hours and drops off over the next 5-6. After that re-dosing doesn't really hit you like that first dose of the day, it does do a little something. The longer you wait the better you feel it, also taking smaller doses(1-2 mg)...I think they allow for peaks and valleys in your Bupe levels so when you dose you notice the slight high from the Bupe, rather than being steadily over the ceiling effect so you always feel the same. With time the "high" from Bupe goes away, too. I have found Bupe is better than nothing, no doubt about that, but its not been enough to keep me clean and continuously going back to dope.

Of course unfortunately, with cotton fever and precipitated withdrawal out of the equation, I don't think that leaves very many options, and the ones that ARE there aren't very favorable. For example, when a person talks about getting chills the first thing that always comes to mind for me is infection of some sort, and seeing as you sound like you don't have terribly good IV practices (or possibly very good judgment in general...), my limited medical knowledge would make me wonder if you didn't have some kind of infection in your circulatory system or something along those lines.

It's very tough to say though. If I had to make a judgment call I'd say to see if this phenomenon continues, and if it does or especially if it gets any worse don't be afraid to go see a doctor. They're doctors, they aren't legally allowed to rat on you and they're trained to deal with this kind of stuff, it's not like any doctor hasn't dealt with drug users and their issues so ya don't have to feel weird going in there. I realize that it's tempting to just try to ignore stuff like that as it's a big pain in the ass having to go to the doctor, but whenever IVing is involved at any point it's usually best to make time. Shooting can lead to a lot of relatively serious complications, and there are a lot of people out there who blew off visiting a doctor when they recognized that something was wrong and wound up really, really regretting it.

Sorry if this is all a little disjointed, it's very late and I'm nodding off a tad, so I'll end it here by saying that no matter what you do good luck and be careful.

Yea I didn't want to jump out and say it, but, an infection involving the vascular system has to be taken into consideration here. Not trying to scare you OP or anything, just wouldn't be surprised if an infection involving perhaps the Tricuspid Valve (the most common are of infection in IV related endocarditis) only would be causing intermittent symptoms. Might be wise to see if your heart is doing messed up stuff (yeah thats a real medical term, I believe) when these episodes occur? Like skipped beat, crazy fast beating, really hard beating or anything seemingly out of the ordinary. Yet again, not trying to cause fear, but don't neither do I want the OP to just think its cotton fever or PW related because a few posters threw it out there. Like Uber_Pen mentioned, those causes seem to be written off here so its really hard to say and some possibilities are not favorable.

 

[Tommyboy]

You can't IV Suboxone. There is a reason they put Nalaxone in it. It's to prevent IV abuse. You can only get away IVin'g straight Bupe.

When you take Suboxone orally, the Bupe gets absorbed while the Nalaxone really doesn't. When you IV it, the Nalaxone manages to make it's way you receptors 100% and has a much higher affinity to the receptors than the Bupe so you go into withdrawal. Whatver other opiates or oiods you have in your system the Nalaxone kicks them off the receptors.

It's the same reason why you go into withdrawal when your a heroin addict and then IV you Nalaxone (Narcan). I remember years ago when I fell out, as I came to as the paramedics were prepping a shot of Narcan. I tried to tell them to fuck off but they wouldn't listen and it felt like I was being dipped in liquid nitrogen and my heart rate went up, and skin got clammy. Luckily for me by the time I got to hospital it wore off and I was back in Noddingham Palace and well enough to sneak out.

Wrong. Just read through this thread and you will see that plenty of people IV suboxone. I've done it plenty of times before I actually got it prescribed and decided to take it correctly via sublingual route for a taper off.

The bupe actually has the higher binding affinity, and when people are overdosing from bupe they need like 8x the normal dose of narcan for it to work. People will go into precipitated withdrawals whether they take straight bupe [subutex] or suboxone while they still have another opiate/opioid on their receptors.

It seems like you are buying into the bullshit that R&B spewed to the doctors when they pushed suboxone on them. "Don't worry, we put naloxone in it so it can't be abused." Yea right, there's even a thread in here with a poll asking if people that IV'd suboxone went into precipitated withdrawals, and pretty much everybody didn't.

 

[cdin]

As to what slum said about precipitated withdrawal though, that doesn't make much sense. First off, I'm pretty sure kratom does not work through activation of opiate receptors, I believe it works through some other very strange conglomeration of receptors. I'm almost positive I recall reading and being told that you can take both substances at the same time.
Either way though, Slum's claim about the fentanyl and precipitated withdrawal would just straight up not work; the only time one gets put into PWs is if they took a full agonist opiate AND THEN took suboxone. It does not work the other way around; in that case the suboxone would simply block the effects of the other opiate to a degree. Taking suboxone then taking another opiate does not cause PWs. Therefore, unless you took the fentanyl THEN took suboxone afterwards, it is impossible that suboxone would've been causing precipitated withdrawal.

Ok, i have to take issue with a few of these claims. 1. (from the wikipedia entry on mitragynine) Mitragynine itself acts primarily via μ-opioid receptors, though its oxidation product mitragynine pseudoindoxyl, acts as an even more potent and selective μ-opioid agonist with less affinity for δ or κ receptors.[2][3] Another alkaloid with a major contribution to the μ-opioid activity of the kratom plant is the related compound 7-hydroxymitragynine, which while present in the plant in much smaller quantities than mitragynine, is a much more potent μ-opioid agonist.[4] - so to say kratom works by "some crazy receptor group" is COMPLETELY false. Just because of the tryptamine structure, make NO mistake it is indeed a μ-opioid agonist. and 2. That you can only cause PW by taking suboxone AFTER a full agonist.
Feel me out here, OP reported injection a kindof INSANE ammount of bupe. The first bout of PW was quite likely from using it over the kratom, which as we have just learned is indeed an opiate agonist. He IV'd at LEAST 12mg of bupe with a tolerance where kratom is still useful. I'd wager there was quite a bit left in his system a few days later, just not enough to fully blockade the fentanyl effects. However, once the short half life of the fent moved it out, the suboxone would be coming back full force, effectively making it like "taking bupe AFTER an opiate agonist" just my .02 and wanted to clear up the misconception about kratom.

 

[Tommyboy]

Ok, i have to take issue with a few of these claims. 1. (from the wikipedia entry on mitragynine) Mitragynine itself acts primarily via μ-opioid receptors, though its oxidation product mitragynine pseudoindoxyl, acts as an even more potent and selective μ-opioid agonist with less affinity for δ or κ receptors.[2][3] Another alkaloid with a major contribution to the μ-opioid activity of the kratom plant is the related compound 7-hydroxymitragynine, which while present in the plant in much smaller quantities than mitragynine, is a much more potent μ-opioid agonist.[4] - so to say kratom works by "some crazy receptor group" is COMPLETELY false. Just because of the tryptamine structure, make NO mistake it is indeed a μ-opioid agonist. and 2. That you can only cause PW by taking suboxone AFTER a full agonist.
Feel me out here, OP reported injection a kindof INSANE ammount of bupe. The first bout of PW was quite likely from using it over the kratom, which as we have just learned is indeed an opiate agonist. He IV'd at LEAST 12mg of bupe with a tolerance where kratom is still useful. I'd wager there was quite a bit left in his system a few days later, just not enough to fully blockade the fentanyl effects. However, once the short half life of the fent moved it out, the suboxone would be coming back full force, effectively making it like "taking bupe AFTER an opiate agonist" just my .02 and wanted to clear up the misconception about kratom.

That's not the same as taking it after it. Once it latches onto your receptors it's there for however long depending on the dose and half-life. Yes it can still be there after another drug comes and goes, but that doesn't mean it's being re-introduced to your system, only that it's been there the whole time.

As for the kratom thing, idk I feel like I've heard of a lot of people using it at the same time as suboxone and not having any issues. I know that tramadol is used along with suboxone and it's an opioid too, so I think that's why he was saying it's weird, but yea it's not some 'crazy receptor group' thing.