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What is a Breakthrough?

g1zzl3

g1zzl3

Bluelighter
Joined
Mar 4, 2009
Messages
762
Location
Bristol, UK
A Breakthrough - I have seen and heard this mentioned many times but still wonder what it actually is? Is it where you do so much you breakthrough the drug and are more normal than tripped out? or what?
 
You know the day destroys the night
Night divides the day
Tried to run
Tried to hide
Break on through to the other side
Break on through to the other side
Break on through to the other side, yeah

We chased our pleasures here
Dug our treasures there
But can you still recall
The time we cried
Break on through to the other side
Break on through to the other side


Yeah!
C'mon, yeah


Everybody loves my baby
Everybody loves my baby
She get
She get
She get
She get high


I found an island in your arms
Country in your eyes
Arms that chain us
Eyes that lie
Break on through to the other side
Break on through to the other side
Break on through, oww!
Oh, yeah!


Made the scene
Week to week
Day to day
Hour to hour
The gate is straight
Deep and wide
Break on through to the other side
Break on through to the other side
Break on through
Break on through
Break on through
Break on through
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNUT5DuIKok
 
The action of some drugs, like DMT, DXM, and Ketamine, does not increase in a linear fashion, but rather in "stages," or "plateaus." Think of a staircase as opposed to a ramp.

When you "breakthrough," you ascend to the next step, or plateau.

Most commonly, the word is probably used regarding DMT, for entering "hyperspace," a vastly different experience than the subtle distortions of lower doses. :)
 
Everything they said is spot on ^^^^^^^^^^^^

I guess it could be compared to a +4 experience. Though with a +4, an over the top dose isn't always needed.

The breakthrough experience is something new to an individual from their previous trips. Maybe not always more intense, just a new way of seeing things as well.
 
Its when your world fades/breaks/explodes into another and you are no longer where you were.

Its like going to heaven.
 
junctionalfunkie said:
The action of some drugs, like DMT, DXM, and Ketamine, does not increase in a linear fashion, but rather in "stages," or "plateaus." Think of a staircase as opposed to a ramp.

When you "breakthrough," you ascend to the next step, or plateau.

Most commonly, the word is probably used regarding DMT, for entering "hyperspace," a vastly different experience than the subtle distortions of lower doses. :)
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This is the closest I've seen so far to a non-redundant meaning for the term. It's an experience that, unlike a plus four, is repeatable and highly contingent on the dose of a drug. You cannot "breakthrough" sober but you can have a plus four sober.

The biggest issue I have with this conception is that moving from the first DXM plateau to the second could be called "breaking through," because the second is qualitatively distinct from the first. This isn't really in keeping with the spirit of how it's used. It also can't just be a new experience while tripping because that's just "a new experience." I'd add that the distinct stage that someone breaks through too is both intensely transporting and has a radically different quality to it.

Re: "Hyperspace"
I've heard this term used to describe a wide variety of DMT breakthroughs, yet because of the meaning of its mathematical sense I think it should be reserved for describing breakthroughs that are characterized by higher spatial perception (Klein bottle stuff), as opposed to those where one figuratively travels to another dimension. Similarly, there is more than one type of salvia breakthrough. For example, an experience where you are utterly depersonalized and unaware of yourself or surroundings is distinct from an experience where you believe you are someone or something else, but both are breakthrough salvia experiences.
 
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Whilst its commonly used to refer to drugs such as DMT/5-MeO-DMT/salvia, it can be applied to most psychedelics. I have personally broken thrugh on DPT, mushrooms, ketamine, 2C-E and LSD in fleeting glances. I think the term, breakthrough, refers to one actually entereing a completely different subjective reality, not neccesarily connected to consensus reality. Essentially, your everyday-surroundings are non existsent, and all that is in existence is hallucinations.
 
Yes, what swilow says: a breakthrough means reaching a new level of immersion.

The immersion is actually what most people including myself underestimate(d) when they have never tripped before. After you had your first experience it's hard to imagine what it was like not to know, but I guess it was like thinking that a trip is like a movie all around you that doesn't really affect you. Like seeing a smurf run around pasted in normal reality, leaving you feeling the same otherwise. Like a very benign unrealistic version of a delerium.

Of course the "reality" ( :D ) of the matter is that tripping is immersive, it becomes clear that what you perceive around you is projected from inside of you and when you experience psychedelia it influences every bit of your consious experience. The difference between inner and outer gradually fades and you are affected so, that everything becomes dynamic rather than static and the now is dilated into eternal depths and profundity.

A breakthrough experience takes that and revolves it completely: your state of consciousness is fundamentally different whatever one of the infinite possible things that means.
 
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Last week I had a great mushroom trip.
Allthough I had alot of things on my head I was mentally prepared for the trip
and it had a very cleansing effect. Psychedelics really can break through habbits of thoughts and habbits of action.

Later that night when it was time for nitrous oxide I realised how everything tends to slip in a pattern called the golden spiral, even our very existence. It was really trippy
and it let the energy stream through my system more smoothly, even now a few days later.

I really look back at a good trip. Not very intense but just what I needed.
 
Solipsis said:
A breakthrough experience takes that and revolves it completely: your state of consciousness is fundamentally different whatever one of the infinite possible things that means.
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so a breakthrough is typically psychomimetic in nature? I've only had a breakthrough of that nature on salvia. There wasn't even the most remote idea of who i was, where my physical body was, my surroundings, but what i was experiencing was definitely 'real', and happening at that moment.
 
I'd say it's another expression for "peak experience"...
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no
many drugs don't have breakthrough doses, even during very powerful peaks

like explained, for some drugs, it's when the linear progression is replaced by a teleportation to another state of consciousness

When you have a breakthrough on DMT....you'll know it...trust me lol
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that

if you say "i think i had a breakthrough", then you didn't
if you have one, you don't have a shadow of a doubt about it... even if you were not aware of the notion of breakthrough
 
so a breakthrough is typically psychomimetic in nature? I've only had a breakthrough of that nature on salvia. There wasn't even the most remote idea of who i was, where my physical body was, my surroundings, but what i was experiencing was definitely 'real', and happening at that moment.
Click to expand...
If by "psychomimetic" you mean mimicking psychosis then... possibly. If you mean that a drug is necessarily involved then yes; I think for "breakthrough" to have its own useful meaning--as opposed to being equivalent to another terms like "peak experience," which it isn't--it has to occur during a drug experience.

It seems to share qualities of visions, in that the experience is far more immediate and immersing than dreams or sober waking existence. Though unlike traditional visions it isn't the product of conscious intention or focus but of the spontaneous drug induced breakdown and replacement of the quality of consciousness that preceded it. It doesn't necessarily contain symbolic content of any recognizable relevance, but sometimes does or seems to (in my experience the "faster" the drug the less likely I am to recognize anything applicable to myself or the world in the breakthrough experience). Though it can occur on many drugs and have various qualities, to my mind the characteristic salvia breakthrough is the most fully realized instantiation of the concept. For those who are sensitive to salvia the breakthrough is--more often than with other drugs--dose-dependent, repeatable, and entirely removed from worldly recognition both during and after the experience.
 
yea, that's what i meant. from what i understand, people in a psychotic state of mind aren't aware that what they're experiencing is real(at least objectively), that's how i felt on salvia.
 
Both ketamine and DMT are associated with schizophrenia, probably at least in part because of sigma receptors so derealization may be an issue. Makes me wonder if this is also the reason DPT (as well as DMT of course) and ketamine are said to have such unbelievable synergy...
But if you are talking about trancendental experiences then the term psychotomimetic does not seem appropriate. Breakthrough experiences are more like when you think you are abducted by aliens while trancendental experiences - as the term suggests - go beyond both real and unreal worlds.
Just saying: keep the two seperate.
 
full-on immersion, transportation to a completely new level of consciousness, as everyone has said...i guess its just like how you feel after ur first trip, like Wow, I can't believe that was possible, and all of this is going on around me...except even as a regular tripper a breakthrough may still leave you dumbfounded as to how in the universe (or multiverse for fun) could THAT have been possible? and then whats the next level of consciousness? complete transcendence, i think may be part of a breakthrough. Is there more? another level? an infinite hierarchy of awareness?
 
jam uh weezy said:
yea, that's what i meant. from what i understand, people in a psychotic state of mind aren't aware that what they're experiencing is real(at least objectively), that's how i felt on salvia.
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If experienced from a drug, a psychotic episode of the kind some unfortunate mentally ill individuals experience would, I suppose, count as a "breakthrough" experience. Then again, I think most would be reluctant to count eating datura then running around naked through town being chased by "intergalactic police" because they started masturbating at the bowling alley as a "breakthrough" experience. Yet it's hard to argue that such an experience isn't a new level of immersion and qualitatively distinct from lower dose datura experiences. Perhaps we're reluctant to think that because so often the breakthrough experience is beautiful, or has powerful and ultimately positive repercussions for the way we think of ourselves and the world. I guess "breakthrough" is ultimately just a categorical term, to which many experiences--drug induced: hyperspatial perception, identity substitution/death, ecstatic visions, belief that we're bending a Martian harlot over lane 10's ball return, etc.--all belong.
 
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