What are the main factors in opiate potentiation?

[BrodieMan13]

Well?
Is it weight? Level of tolerance? Metabolism?
Just curious to know how many glasses of white grapefruit juice I should drink with how many benadryls and tagamets. I plan on finding out what 20 mg of oxy smells like before a jam session, and would like to get the most out of them. Opiates really are the best music drugs.

Thanks

 

[TheodoreRoosevelt]

Metabolism by CYP450(sic?) Enzymes in the stomach of drugs traveling throughout the body.

Much easier to pop a pill of Tagemet/Cimetidine 200mg than a grapefruit juice. You can find it next to Tums at any store.

 

[Mr Blonde]

I plan on finding out what 20 mg of oxy smells like before a jam session, and would like to get the most out of them. Opiates really are the best music drugs.

Amen to that brother, from a fellow musician? What do you play? I'm a guitarist, but I also play bass and keyboards as well as do some producing/mixing.

Much easier to pop a pill of Tagemet/Cimetidine 200mg than a grapefruit juice. You can find it next to Tums at any store.

Ditto this advice, take one of these an hour/couple of hours before you dose up, will increase the length of your high. Feel free to wash it down with a glass of grapefruit juice if you want, when I use grapefruit juice I usually drink it an hour before I dose up but I find it doesn't add much.

Also, just take the normal dose of benadryl...it only potentiates by making the drug more sedating I believe, and Oxy is meant to be stimulating...maybe give the benadryl a miss?

 

[BrodieMan13]

I play bass with a few guys every now and then, and I've slowly been getting used to guitar. I see myself learning other instruments, as well as the recording process, though. It's a fucking blast.
Also:
So what does Tagamet do that effects the enzymes? Does it also potentate by making the drug more sedating?

 

[Mr Blonde]

I'm pretty sure that Tagamet is a CYP3A4 inhibitor; it'll work like, if not better then, grapefruit juice by stretching out the length of the high.

The Benadryl or similar meds will make the high more sedating, but like I said I don't know how well that would mix with Oxy, a stimulating opioid. That's the best potentiation they offer, I think. I know that dimenhydrimate mixed with heroin is a popular combo.

 

[TheodoreRoosevelt]

Same kind of inhibitor, but you know exactly what you are getting.

With grapefruit juice, you don't know how much grapefruit you are getting, and you don't know how much of that particular chemical in grapefruit that is the Cytosome inhibitor is in it.

In other words, who knows how much grapefruit juice you have to drink, it varies on the drink, brand, and even grapefruit used.

Plus you'll probably puke the grapefruit juice, considering how acidic it is. The point of Cimetidine is to essentially make your stomach less acidic, as those acids are the Cytosomes and other metabolizers responsible for destroying your precious drugs.

 

[Mr Blonde]

^ Thanks for clearing that up, I've always wondered why people recommend basifying your stomach to some extent before orally dosing...

 

[BrodieMan13]

Ah, I see. So acidic foods and beverages = no bueno. I'll be sure to stock up on basifying chemicals before dosing.
Damn, biochemistry is interesting! I wonder if this is my calling... now to decide between music and pharmacology...
Thank you so much for the knowledge! I'll be sure to pass it on to others.
Another question:
Is it possible to over potentate opiates, or any other kind of drug? Is there a point where you can accidentally over basify your stomach? Within reason, I mean. I'm not going to go eat 5 packs of Tagamet.

 

[f13nd]

if lowering stomach ph works with opiates like it does with amphetamines can someone just take tums? Ive never seen tagamet or cimetidine before are they in most drugstores?

 

[BrodieMan13]

I've been thinking...
All this information is great for ORAL dosing because it goes straight to your stomach, but what if I want to rectally administrate my opioid bounty? Or even insufflation?Is there any way of potentiating the drug before/during either of those two activities?

 

[sonic]

if lowering stomach ph works with opiates like it does with amphetamines can someone just take tums? Ive never seen tagamet or cimetidine before are they in most drugstores?

You mean raising the pH.. high pH = base, low pH = acid. I had this wrong myself until I forced myself to learn it properly. It does seem backwards for some reason.

Anyway, it hasn't been proven that attempting to decrease the acidity of your stomach does anything to any opiate. I don't know how much I subscribe to that theory when it comes to any drug for a few reasons. First of all your stomach acid is extremely strong, so tums aren't going to do all that much to prevent your stomach from digesting anything. Secondly, it seems that the majority of any opiate is metabolized into inactive chemicals by your liver. I agree that your best bet for "potentiation" is to attempt to take some kind of an enzyme blocker. Of course, enzyme blockers don't increase the peak of the experience, they just make the high last a little longer.

Also, the OP is going to snort the oxy, so they really don't have to worry about what's in their stomach, except for the oxy that drips down the back of their throat and is swallowed. Having an empty stomach would help for the amount that ends up getting swallowed.

 

[chicpoena]

I've been thinking...
All this information is great for ORAL dosing because it goes straight to your stomach, but what if I want to rectally administrate my opioid bounty? Or even insufflation?Is there any way of potentiating the drug before/during either of those two activities?

Tagamet (cimetidine) or grapefruit juice work to potentiate opiates in the liver by inhibiting the breakdown of opiates. So they work no matter what route of administration you use.

 

[sonic]

Yep, rectal administration bypasses "first-pass" metabolization, but the drug will still eventually be broken down by your liver.

 

[TheodoreRoosevelt]

Is it possible to over potentate opiates, or any other kind of drug? Is there a point where you can accidentally over basify your stomach? Within reason, I mean. I'm not going to go eat 5 packs of Tagamet.

No, not really. I mean there's a limit to effectiveness, but I mean after like 1 or 2 tagamet taking any more won't do anything.

if lowering stomach ph works with opiates like it does with amphetamines can someone just take tums? Ive never seen tagamet or cimetidine before are they in most drugstores?

Eh, it's not exactly raising your stomach pH that potentiates drugs. You're stomach being less acidic is the result of taking certain inhibitors, not the other way around (ie your stomach being less acidic won't necessarily potentiate drugs).

Tagamet inhibits a certain stomach acid that's responsible for drug metabolism. When you inhibit this stomach acid, your stomach becomes less acidic as a result.

Of course, enzyme blockers don't increase the peak of the experience, they just make the high last a little longer.

Quoted for the Truth: This kinda also addresses your question about "over potentiating".

 

[BrodieMan13]

Thank you all for clearing these things up.
I suppose I could've stared at countless archive threads and charts, but I'm somewhat of a lazy bastard. I'll be sure to help out next time a n00b like me has questions about opiates.

Well, it's off for some funky bass playin' for me!
Thanks Again!

 

[saveyour]

Tagamet (cimetidine) or grapefruit juice work to potentiate opiates in the liver by inhibiting the breakdown of opiates. So they work no matter what route of administration you use.

this may be true but subjectively these potentation methods have never really panned out for me. the mind is a powerful organ though, if someones believes their going to be higher because of taking an extra OTC pill then its possibly just placebo effect.

 

[johanneschimpo]

In theory the inhibiting (or sometimes inducing) various CYP450 enzymes should potentiate opiates and other drugs metabolized through the same pathways, but I too have never felt any difference in my opiates/benzos by taking them with cimetidine or grapefruit juice.

But surely placebo has helped many a young lad think his 20mg oxycodone is 25% stronger or lasting 40% longer or whatever they like to believe. More power to them.