-
The Dark Side 💕 Welcome Guest 💕
Posting Rules Bluelight Rules Notable Threads Urgent Hotlines Bereavement Mindfulness Suicide Support Anger Management -
TDS Moderators: AlphaMethylPhenyl | paranoid android
Mental Health Wellbutrin (Bupropion) for ADD?
- Thread starter BlueBull
- Start date
BlueBull
Moderator: MDMA
What a fraud this woman is... Her intentions with the venlafaxine were, according to her, to target norepinephrine. She says attention disorders also have problems with this neurotransmitter and so she wanted to influence this with the venlafaxine. What the actual fuck... Furthermore she says the side-effects are negligible from her experience (yeah right). I proposed to try methylphenidate but she refused again, without a good reason actually, I think she fears the addiction potential this substance has but when I countered and said that that is presumed to be a lot less than with amphetamine she didn't really react to it. According to her as methylphenidate is an amphetamine derivative it must have the same properties, addiction potential and side-effects, which according to the info I found is definitely not true but what do I know... Quick question: is methylphenidate actually derived from amphetamine or is it a different class of substance altogether but with properties of amphetamine? I always thought the latter was true but according to her it isn't (I must admit I am not sure, she could be right)
She did refer me to someone with experience in attention disorders so at least some good came from today's session. But I left that office quite furious. It was clear to me she didn't want to treat me anymore and wanted me gone. She didn't even ask if I wanted a next appointment, just wrote me down some referral info and almost shoved me out the door 20 minutes before the session was supposed to end.
She did refer me to someone with experience in attention disorders so at least some good came from today's session. But I left that office quite furious. It was clear to me she didn't want to treat me anymore and wanted me gone. She didn't even ask if I wanted a next appointment, just wrote me down some referral info and almost shoved me out the door 20 minutes before the session was supposed to end.
Last edited:
pinpoint
Bluelighter
This is ridiculous.
LOL, who the fuck gave her a degree? Pfizer's marketing department?
This is true, they are both of the phenethylamine class. Their mechanism of actions are somewhat different. Amphetamines cause vesicular transporters to dump their cargo of dopamine in the synaptic cleft in addition to inhibiting reuptake whereas methylphenidate only performs the latter.
Get a new PDOC.
BlueBull
Moderator: MDMA
Yeah you'd think. Upon prescribing me the effexor I did not get any information whatsoever. Just "take this once a day in the morning". If I hadn't researched it I would've thought it was a benign drug used to treat ADD. Furthermore as soon as she prescribed it she whipped out a sample pack (2X15 pills I believe) and didn't charge anything for it. So yeah you'd really think that
Ah I see. I did not know that. I always thought methylphenidate (ritalin) was a different class of substance with less drawbacks than amphetamines (insomnia, addiction, abuse potential, neurotoxicity,...) but with roughly the same stimulant properties, though milder. That's why out of all the drugs that exist to treat ADD that one seemed the safest and least influential of the bunch. As I now know they are the same class so I suppose the truth lies somewhere in the middle. They can be harmful and dangerous too, in the same way amphetamines can, though to a less extent? I conclude this because of the double action mechanism of amphetamines vs. the single action mechanism of methylphenidate, though a completely uneducated guess. Going to do more research soon
As for the new PDOC I've been referred to a specialist concerning attention disorders. Going to call soon and see what's what
Geaux Tigers!
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2010
- Messages
- 393
She's felicitous, some patients with attention disorders are purported to have a norepinephrine imbalance; however, the prescribing of venlafaxine to extenuate a NE imbalance is WTF, indeed.
Medications such as Strattera (atomoxetine) are indicated for ADHD and, as you might be aware, address NE by acting as reuptake inhibitors. Atomoxetine's Ki value (NE) is 5* whereas venlafaxine is 2,480 (the lower the number, the stronger the inhibition).**
As you can see, venlafaxine is not an appropriate psychotropic for you. I hope you receive proper therapy from your new PDOC.
Best wishes!
*Atomoxetine - Wikipedia
**Comparative affinity of duloxetine and venlafaxine for serotonin and norepinephrine transporters in vitro and in vivo, human serotonin receptor subtypes, and other neuronal receptors [Neuropsychopharmacology 25(6): 871-880]
Last edited:
Targetting NE is not ridiculous at all. Acting upon NE over DA with no reason is ridiculous.
Augmenting stimulants with NRI's isn't ridiculous at all. Staring on an SNRI with no reason to is ridiculous.
Methylphenidate is a phenethylamine, not an amphetamine. Bupropion (Wellbutrin) is a phenethylamine. (nor)epinephrine and dopamine are phenethylamines.
Phenethylamines =/= amphetamine.
It's impossible to say Methylphenidate has less drawbacks than amps. There are plenty of people who react worse to Methylphenidate and prefer Amps, especially in regards to PNS effects.
If you're so worried about dexamp why not try lisdexamp first? It's a pro-drug, so your body turns it into dexamp. Again, some people prefer dexamp to lisdexamp but it shows you're not looking to get high.
I suggest checking out the amphetamine neurotoxicity/tolerance prevention thread in "Neuroscience and Pharmacology Discussion"
Have you tried looking into other ways of dealing with your ADHD?
Stimulants are only effective for so long..
Augmenting stimulants with NRI's isn't ridiculous at all. Staring on an SNRI with no reason to is ridiculous.
Methylphenidate is a phenethylamine, not an amphetamine. Bupropion (Wellbutrin) is a phenethylamine. (nor)epinephrine and dopamine are phenethylamines.
Phenethylamines =/= amphetamine.
It's impossible to say Methylphenidate has less drawbacks than amps. There are plenty of people who react worse to Methylphenidate and prefer Amps, especially in regards to PNS effects.
If you're so worried about dexamp why not try lisdexamp first? It's a pro-drug, so your body turns it into dexamp. Again, some people prefer dexamp to lisdexamp but it shows you're not looking to get high.
I suggest checking out the amphetamine neurotoxicity/tolerance prevention thread in "Neuroscience and Pharmacology Discussion"
Have you tried looking into other ways of dealing with your ADHD?
Stimulants are only effective for so long..
BlueBull
Moderator: MDMA
The reason I'm so worried about regular amps is the fact that I lost a few very good friends to them that were doing them recreationally. I've seen firsthand what they can do to you when abused and it is NOT pretty. I've just recently visited one of them after not having seen him for about 4 years and he has to take around 8 pills a day just to be "normal". He hears voices, sees things, is constantly confused, has no teeth left,... I know that there's much less chance of that with therapeutic doses at carefully monitored time intervals but because of my past I'm just naturally very prejudiced against amphetamines.
And yes I have looked into that. I went to the psych to get a bit of cognitive therapy for social anxiety and to get some simple answers about my attention problems, not to be medicated for it. But as soon as I mentioned I self-medicate with cannabis to stay focused she wanted to prescribe drugs for it, which was not my intention. But the cannabis made her think I needed medication. It's very strange because I get opposite effects from cannabis than most people. For me it is a stimulant. My focus goes up, energy goes up, appetite goes away, sleep goes away, my reaction times increase, I drift away less mentally,... And because of this she came up with the drugs because according to her I am doing something very harmful by medicating this way and pharmaceuticals for focus would be less damaging. I still have to see the first proof of this, because according to me there exists nothing which focuses me but has even less drawbacks and side effects than cannabis. But I am only a layman so I was willing to test this by trying a few different drugs and seeing what the consequences were...
About the NE imbalance that's something I knew. But first targeting DA and when that doesn't help try to target NE (and by doing that serotonin also) is in my humble opinion like throwing things at the wall to see what will stick. It's even more ridiculous when you try to target NE only without DA
Anyways that's all in the past now. Going to call the new PDOC soon and he should be a lot better at his job than my previous one as he specializes in attention disorders in adults so he should be just the PDOC I need...
And yes I have looked into that. I went to the psych to get a bit of cognitive therapy for social anxiety and to get some simple answers about my attention problems, not to be medicated for it. But as soon as I mentioned I self-medicate with cannabis to stay focused she wanted to prescribe drugs for it, which was not my intention. But the cannabis made her think I needed medication. It's very strange because I get opposite effects from cannabis than most people. For me it is a stimulant. My focus goes up, energy goes up, appetite goes away, sleep goes away, my reaction times increase, I drift away less mentally,... And because of this she came up with the drugs because according to her I am doing something very harmful by medicating this way and pharmaceuticals for focus would be less damaging. I still have to see the first proof of this, because according to me there exists nothing which focuses me but has even less drawbacks and side effects than cannabis. But I am only a layman so I was willing to test this by trying a few different drugs and seeing what the consequences were...
About the NE imbalance that's something I knew. But first targeting DA and when that doesn't help try to target NE (and by doing that serotonin also) is in my humble opinion like throwing things at the wall to see what will stick. It's even more ridiculous when you try to target NE only without DA
Anyways that's all in the past now. Going to call the new PDOC soon and he should be a lot better at his job than my previous one as he specializes in attention disorders in adults so he should be just the PDOC I need...
Last edited:
While amphetamines are dangerous, I would think that somebody who is getting very little sleep and eating very little/has a low blood sugar would be at a higher risk of health problems (including psychosis) than somebody on low-moderate doses of dextroamphetamine.
Is this to say amps are healthy? No. I'm just trying to show that the classic amphetamine addict "look" would not occur if they were eating and sleeping.
Amphetamine psychosis is only encouraged by not sleeping.
It's really hard to say how much each factor contributes, so I'm not even going to attempt to, and not being on amphetamines is always healthier than being on amphetamines.
Cannabis is probably the healthiest stimulant there is. I also find Cannabis to help me focus, and there are other reports of Cannabis helping people with this sort of thing.
I would highly recommend Cannabis over stims.
To be honest with you man, targetting any of the neurotransmitters (DA, NE, SERT) "is a bit like changing the oil in your engine by pouring oil all over the engine block. Some of it will dribble into the right place, but a lot of it will do more harm than good." (paraphrased from this video you should watch)
To reiterate, I high recommend Cannabis over stimulants for you.
I am not a doctor, but it's pretty obvious to me which is healthier (and no it's got nothing to do with Cannabis being "natural")
Is this to say amps are healthy? No. I'm just trying to show that the classic amphetamine addict "look" would not occur if they were eating and sleeping.
Amphetamine psychosis is only encouraged by not sleeping.
It's really hard to say how much each factor contributes, so I'm not even going to attempt to, and not being on amphetamines is always healthier than being on amphetamines.
Cannabis is probably the healthiest stimulant there is. I also find Cannabis to help me focus, and there are other reports of Cannabis helping people with this sort of thing.
I would highly recommend Cannabis over stims.
To be honest with you man, targetting any of the neurotransmitters (DA, NE, SERT) "is a bit like changing the oil in your engine by pouring oil all over the engine block. Some of it will dribble into the right place, but a lot of it will do more harm than good." (paraphrased from this video you should watch)
To reiterate, I high recommend Cannabis over stimulants for you.
I am not a doctor, but it's pretty obvious to me which is healthier (and no it's got nothing to do with Cannabis being "natural")
BlueBull
Moderator: MDMA
Problem with the cannabis is that it enhances my focus but in the long run it eats away at my motivation, which is causing me some issues the last few years. I'm now up to a point where the benefits hardly outweigh the downsides anymore. That's why when she told me my self-medication was unhealthy and she knew a few good prescription drugs to replace it, I became curious. To my former uneducated self it seemed like she meant those drugs would have even less downsides. Which I think (for me) can be the case, but certainly not with the drugs I was prescribed
As for the cannabis increasing my focus, yeah I find that very very curious too. I've always had that, since I started smoking. Everyone around me became more lazy, quiet and cough-locked as the night progressed and I only got more energetic the more I smoked. I know of one other person that has the same effect from cannabis as me and only recently found out he has been diagnosed with severe ADHD years ago. I think there is a correlation there. And if my former psych's opinion is still worth something it has to do with differently functioning dopamine systems in people with ADD/ADHD. Anyways it's refreshing to know I seem to be far from the only one. Does your appetite pass when you smoke, too? Do you find it hard to get to sleep when you just smoked? Does your hearth-rate go up, too? Do you get this stimulant-like body buzz from it? Sorry for the questions, just curious
I'm not going to reply to this thread anymore after this as this is turning into my own private questionnaire, which isn't the point of this forum. All my questions have been answered vigorously and thoroughly and I thank you all for that! I'm again much wiser than I was before starting this thread. Kudos!
As for the cannabis increasing my focus, yeah I find that very very curious too. I've always had that, since I started smoking. Everyone around me became more lazy, quiet and cough-locked as the night progressed and I only got more energetic the more I smoked. I know of one other person that has the same effect from cannabis as me and only recently found out he has been diagnosed with severe ADHD years ago. I think there is a correlation there. And if my former psych's opinion is still worth something it has to do with differently functioning dopamine systems in people with ADD/ADHD. Anyways it's refreshing to know I seem to be far from the only one. Does your appetite pass when you smoke, too? Do you find it hard to get to sleep when you just smoked? Does your hearth-rate go up, too? Do you get this stimulant-like body buzz from it? Sorry for the questions, just curious
I'm not going to reply to this thread anymore after this as this is turning into my own private questionnaire, which isn't the point of this forum. All my questions have been answered vigorously and thoroughly and I thank you all for that! I'm again much wiser than I was before starting this thread. Kudos!
Last edited:
When I smoke Cannabis I feel more in touch with myself and reality, really. Thoughts will actually occur, introspection and analysis come to me much easier. I can actually appreciate music/movies/art. I can focus on something for longer than 10 minutes.
I do get the munchies, though on/off. In fact, a lot of the time it's an increased desire to eat tasty food than it is actual hunger.
I do find it harder to sleep stoned than sober, and I feel it's a waste. Falling asleep 2 hours after I last smoked, where I'm no longer high in any way but not quite sober either is my ideal time to sleep.
Sometimes I get more energy, a bit of a buzz but I wouldn't go as far as to call it stimulated. My ability to recall information/memories is improved when stoned.
I'm not sure about heart rate nor BP.
If you're going to try stims, a good regime is tuesday-friday on and sat-mon off, or on/off/on/off if you get on like that.
Whatever works for you, do some experimenting, but try to give yourself breaks and not get into the habit of daily use.
Best of luck
I do get the munchies, though on/off. In fact, a lot of the time it's an increased desire to eat tasty food than it is actual hunger.
I do find it harder to sleep stoned than sober, and I feel it's a waste. Falling asleep 2 hours after I last smoked, where I'm no longer high in any way but not quite sober either is my ideal time to sleep.
Sometimes I get more energy, a bit of a buzz but I wouldn't go as far as to call it stimulated. My ability to recall information/memories is improved when stoned.
I'm not sure about heart rate nor BP.
If you're going to try stims, a good regime is tuesday-friday on and sat-mon off, or on/off/on/off if you get on like that.
Whatever works for you, do some experimenting, but try to give yourself breaks and not get into the habit of daily use.
Best of luck