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Opioids Weaning off Fent Sub vs GABA/kratom/benzo

saturdayschildallgrown

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Joined
Nov 8, 2024
Messages
3
Quitting Fent: Kratom/Gaba vs suboxone

I have a 3 year fentanyl habit that I'm trying to quit. I've tried weaning off many times. I'm currently down to 1/10 of a gram of powder 3 x day (snorting). I have a prescription for gabapentin and Ativan. I'm wondering if I should try to wean off and get through withdrawals using gabapentin/ativan/kratom or go on suboxone. I will probably have to use the Burmese method to induct Sub. I can't get to 3 days at zero. I work and ha teenager, so don't have days to lay in bed...plus, the first time I quit fent before I knew I was physically addicted I went into withdrawals and it was horrible. I though I was having a manic episode. I also have a script for lithium if that would help. Would you recommend trying to wean with the help of gaba/benzo/kratom or suboxone? I'm worried about coming off the suboxone later. Is it even possible to quit without it? How long will withdrawal symptoms last? Is it possible to wean off suboxone? I've read a ton of threads but I guess I wanted to post to have some direct personal interactions. This is ruining my life and I just want my life back. Thank you all in advance. .
 
For me sub was a bitch to come off of but only because the WDs are so drawn out. I never came off a fent habit because I refused to willingly do it so I can’t say for certain but my fiancé did by using a combo of meth and sub, really only did the sub when she really really needed to so to not form another habit. I’m not recommending this in the slightest, but I also used meth to come off sub, but I’m also still on the meth lol.

Subs in all honestly aren’t that hard to quit if you have the willpower, which quite obviously most of us here do not. The first few days WDs suck but I doubt they’re nearly as bad as fent, after that they’re actually pretty mild but they last for so damn long it made it almost impossible for me to keep going because RLS/some weird night tremors kept me up all night long for days and I physically couldn’t function because I wasn’t getting any sleep. Which was a large part of the reason meth came into play, but also because it was another high and while you would think being tweaked out of your mind would be possibly the worst thing to do while in opiate WD it actually did help quite a bit, though I’ll admit it definitely made the shits the first few days of sub WD a bit more constant than without it.

Sorry to be a bit off topic but all that is basically to say I’d suggest switching to subs and try to taper the sub dose down as quickly as you comfortably can, then use the Kratom and gabapentin to come off of those. Like I said I never came off of fent so I can’t say for sure but I don’t really know if Kratom, even combined with the other drugs you have on hand is enough to successfully pull yourself off the fent habit. The few people I know that are still kicking who have actually tried to come off haven’t even really been successful even with subs. Which definitely has more to do with their willpower/willingness to get clean and not suboxones effectiveness, but if 16-24mg of sub isn’t holding them well enough I can’t imagine the amount of Kratom it would take.

Definitely let a few others voice their opinions, though. I try but I’m not always the best source of information lol
 
I'd probably go with some kratom extracts, like the commonly sold "OPMS black" liquid shots, drinking one maybe once every 4-6 hours, with the gabapentin and ativan, to help with the initial period, then slowly introduce the suboxone at tiny doses after a few days of being fent free.

Lithium won't be of much help and may only complicated the situation due to drug interactions and it's side-effect profile.

Suboxone of course is hard to quit but it's better than being hooked on fentanyl.

If you are able to switch from kratom OPMS black shots to regular leaf kratom capsules (get red bali capsules), and avoid suboxone altogether that would be a better outcome because kratom is quite abit easier to quit than suboxone.

The OPMS black shots will be expensive the first few days. Might try getting some as a test to see if they stave off fentanyl withdrawal. It's very hard to saw how much fentanyl you're actually consuming at 1/10th a gram a day, but at say at 5% to 10% purity it might be 5-10mg of fentanyl a day. But who knows, it could be .5% purity or 50% (although the former is far more likely than the latter).
 
I'd probably go with some kratom extracts, like the commonly sold "OPMS black" liquid shots, drinking one maybe once every 4-6 hours, with the gabapentin and ativan, to help with the initial period, then slowly introduce the suboxone at tiny doses after a few days of being fent free.

Lithium won't be of much help and may only complicated the situation due to drug interactions and it's side-effect profile.

Suboxone of course is hard to quit but it's better than being hooked on fentanyl.

If you are able to switch from kratom OPMS black shots to regular leaf kratom capsules (get red bali capsules), and avoid suboxone altogether that would be a better outcome because kratom is quite abit easier to quit than suboxone.

The OPMS black shots will be expensive the first few days. Might try getting some as a test to see if they stave off fentanyl withdrawal. It's very hard to saw how much fentanyl you're actually consuming at 1/10th a gram a day, but at say at 5% to 10% purity it might be 5-10mg of fentanyl a day. But who knows, it could be .5% purity or 50% (although the former is far more likely than the latter).
Did they reformulate the OPMS shots to make them stronger? The guy at the gas station I originally bought Kratom from years ago swore up and down I should try them, I’ll never go back, they get you sooo high etc etc lol so I was convinced and bought like 4-5 of them at I’m pretty sure like $30-35 each if not more. I drank the first one and was very surprised for all of about 5 minutes when it felt like a low dose hydrocodone high was kicking in, which rapidly faded and I was left with just a regular Kratom “high”. I guess I shouldn’t have been surprised, but I was pissed at mister habibi for tricking me into buying so fuckin much. I thought there had to be some truth behind them actually ‘working’ so I drank another one, just to feel nauseous with just a regular Kratom high. I’m not dumb, I know to be super skeptical about products bought in gas stations or head shops that get you “high” but the last time somebody I saw on a near daily basis that tried to convince me that hard to try something in a decent quantity was when “bath salts” first hit the mainstream market and I was getting some fire whatever the fuck being sold as “white water rapids” or “amped” lol.

I tried to return the other 2 or 3 and it was a different dude in there and said he couldn’t, which I knew they wouldn’t lol. That shit damaged the relationship between me and my gas station homie. I’m still pissed about that tbh
 
For me sub was a bitch to come off of but only because the WDs are so drawn out. I never came off a fent habit because I refused to willingly do it so I can’t say for certain but my fiancé did by using a combo of meth and sub, really only did the sub when she really really needed to so to not form another habit. I’m not recommending this in the slightest, but I also used meth to come off sub, but I’m also still on the meth lol.

Subs in all honestly aren’t that hard to quit if you have the willpower, which quite obviously most of us here do not. The first few days WDs suck but I doubt they’re nearly as bad as fent, after that they’re actually pretty mild but they last for so damn long it made it almost impossible for me to keep going because RLS/some weird night tremors kept me up all night long for days and I physically couldn’t function because I wasn’t getting any sleep. Which was a large part of the reason meth came into play, but also because it was another high and while you would think being tweaked out of your mind would be possibly the worst thing to do while in opiate WD it actually did help quite a bit, though I’ll admit it definitely made the shits the first few days of sub WD a bit more constant than without it.

Sorry to be a bit off topic but all that is basically to say I’d suggest switching to subs and try to taper the sub dose down as quickly as you comfortably can, then use the Kratom and gabapentin to come off of those. Like I said I never came off of fent so I can’t say for sure but I don’t really know if Kratom, even combined with the other drugs you have on hand is enough to successfully pull yourself off the fent habit. The few people I know that are still kicking who have actually tried to come off haven’t even really been successful even with subs. Which definitely has more to do with their willpower/willingness to get clean and not suboxones effectiveness, but if 16-24mg of sub isn’t holding them well enough I can’t imagine the amount of Kratom it would take.

Definitely let a few others voice their opinions, though. I try but I’m not always the best source of information lol
Thank you so much for responding. I'm thinking of going the sub route. At least I could regain some normalcy. I can't really tolerate kratom that well and imagine it would take a lot. I have one full script of Ativan and gabapentin which I'm keeping because I'm assuming they will quit prescribing those once I get on suboxone. I'll let you guys know how it goes. I'm terrified of PWD, and praying the Burmese method will work. Stimulants make me so anxious, I can't even imagine that route. One of my close friends is addicted to fent and meth, and I'm definitely not wanting to add an addiction!
 
Did they reformulate the OPMS shots to make them stronger? The guy at the gas station I originally bought Kratom from years ago swore up and down I should try them, I’ll never go back, they get you sooo high etc etc lol so I was convinced and bought like 4-5 of them at I’m pretty sure like $30-35 each if not more. I drank the first one and was very surprised for all of about 5 minutes when it felt like a low dose hydrocodone high was kicking in, which rapidly faded and I was left with just a regular Kratom “high”. I guess I shouldn’t have been surprised, but I was pissed at mister habibi for tricking me into buying so fuckin much. I thought there had to be some truth behind them actually ‘working’ so I drank another one, just to feel nauseous with just a regular Kratom high. I’m not dumb, I know to be super skeptical about products bought in gas stations or head shops that get you “high” but the last time somebody I saw on a near daily basis that tried to convince me that hard to try something in a decent quantity was when “bath salts” first hit the mainstream market and I was getting some fire whatever the fuck being sold as “white water rapids” or “amped” lol.

I tried to return the other 2 or 3 and it was a different dude in there and said he couldn’t, which I knew they wouldn’t lol. That shit damaged the relationship between me and my gas station homie. I’m still pissed about that tbh
Just the thought of the kratom extract makes my stomach hurt. I know that is silly coming from someone who was about to go through withdrawals. I've heard you could wean on Suboxone while weaning off fentanyl.. someone on here provided a very thorough plan with dosages and I'm tempted to try. Thank you for responding. I'll update as I go.
 
Just the thought of the kratom extract makes my stomach hurt. I know that is silly coming from someone who was about to go through withdrawals. I've heard you could wean on Suboxone while weaning off fentanyl.. someone on here provided a very thorough plan with dosages and I'm tempted to try. Thank you for responding. I'll update as I go.
Kratom definitely isn’t for everybody. I tried going that route as my new “high” when I was clean briefly and just couldn’t do it for a number of reasons. I actually had a pretty adverse reaction to white Kratom, and while it can’t really be blamed itself I don’t think it was essentially the straw that broke the camels(aka my heart) back. I had come off a long, heavy binge of coke and other stimulants and also drunk the entire time and after starting to dose the white kratom I pretty much collapsed at work. Felt like I was having a heart attack, couldn’t breath, it legitimately felt life threatening. But I survived so I didn’t go to the ER, until it happened a few more times.

I didn’t immediately recognize it as the Kratom as I’d done Kratom before, just not the white. But the white is apparently more stimulating, and while it’s not truly stimulating I’m guessing it just put more stress on my already stressed to the max heart. I switched to that Kratom because of its stimulating properties to stay away from stuff like coke and amphetamines, turned out I should’ve stayed away from everything all together lol. Tickers good now, though. Abstaining from alcohol and doing just meth is apparently the healthier option
 
Despite the recent legal hype, sublingual Bupe won't make your teeth fall out; years of addict hygiene is hard to separate out from routines of opioid maintenance that, for most of us, involved methadone at some point and last years.

A very slow buprenorphine taper is definitely the safest and most effective option. Methadone is inferior to Buprenorphine on many levels: As an agonist It doesn't block opiates (making you vulnerable to relapse), it's a weight gainer, it rots your teeth and, depending on how committed to your recovery, the clinic routine can be tedious and expose you to active addicts daily. Once on Methadone, the Buprenorphine option will quickly disappear unless you really can wait 3 days. Methadone's only advantage over Suboxone is ease of induction.

Methadone induction is painless, but tapering down from the clinics' industry standard of 110 mg daily, plus the mandatory 3 days cold turkey before introducing any partial antagonist (Bupe) or a full antagonist, is the opposite of painless. Methadone vs Buprenorphine is really no choice after all: If you're serious about your recovery Bupe films or the Sublicade shot are objectively better options.

Suboxone induction, however, is not easy. But 3 days is a very conservative wait time estimate, I think. True, Fentanyl is short acting but long lingering biologically, so the old 24 hour/8 mg to the face and you're good philosophy is dead. Gauge your perceived level of withdrawal -- this should dictate the induction process. Use a stress-free day to sleep in as long as possible 8 -12 hours is ideal. Tell anyone who asks that you're sick because it's the truth. Even better get a hotel room. Once in moderate to severe withdrawal (take a nice shit for once) start dosing in 0.5 mg amounts, wait an hour and repeat. Everyone is very different. But the longer you wait and the less you take as you induce the better. Build up to at least 4 mg during the first day this way. It sounds as if this would be enought to relieve your withdrawal symptoms.

If you start to feel noticeably better while slowly inducing Buprenorphine, the worst thing you could possibly do is get cocky and take a large amount suddenly. Don't "cake" it. (I like this expression for taking too much Suboxone too soon. But it expresses the worst case scenario.)

By the end of the first day you should feel a very good sense that you can do this! Time is finally on your side once again!


You will have make it through one pretty bad day and night most likely. 24 hours after first inducting, you can likely make your way to 8 mg quickly. I can take a full 8 mg strip the morning after induction, precips the day before or not. Then take another 8 mg strip 36 hours after first induction. From here, you can make your way down to 4 mg comfortably -- within a few days if you don't need a blocking dose or you don't require maintenance.

I want to stress that induction is the hard part, especially if you don't know how your body responds to Suboxone. My first few inductions, when I was much younger, were a cakewalk. Having become dependent on Percocet, I'd wake sick, take a strip (4-8 mg), and I was out the door. In 2012, assuming use of Rx opiates and east coast Fent/Heroin street powder, 24 hours, 8 mg, and you were straight and strong. Straight Fentanyl requires a more careful induction. From what you've written, I assume this is your first experience with Bupe induction. That's good, because it seems to get harder and harder each time. The younger you are the better, too.

Kratom, while it does take away opiate withdrawal, is problematic for a few reasons. Quality Kratom is expensive and probably not quality. Headshop and gas station Kratom may or may not be poison. If you. must, Bali is better than Meng da. Suboxone, Methadone, and Kratom all represent trading one addiction for another. But the amount of Kratom you need to consume, the horrible taste, and the probability that you'll experience a GI event that makes you never take it again, makes it a poor alternative. If you know the supply is legit it could be used as part of a taper, I guess. Kratom maks you feel a little high. FYI: People who take Kratom daily usually die from health complications in their 50s no matter how in shape they are. https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/prescription-drug-abuse/in-depth/kratom/art-20402171

Gabapentin is a great all around detox medication. 800 mg or more will ease RLS and serve as a nice sleep med. But Gaba should only be used at the end of a long taper -- when you're staggering days between 0 mg intervals. Grams of it are what we like and what really eases a Suboxone detox, but tolerance, physical dependency, and -- as I learned last night -- withdrawals, similar to those of opiates (restlessness and anxiety), can occur and will be unpleasant and counterproductive. So don't stop taking large amounts of Gaba willy nilly while you're attention should be on your primary detox.

What I'm trying to say is the best way to get off of street opiates is Suboxone maintenance followed by a long, slow, and responsible taper. Under 2 mg it's all about your own bodily chemistry. Everything is mental, but I would get down to 1/8 mg as slowely as possible ~ 1 year with little maintenance at higher doses (avoid taking more than 8 mg daily as your dose). Then start skipping days when you feel good. Skip one day, dose (1/4, 1/8, or 1/16 mg); skip two days, dose ... Skip four days, dose and you're done. You'll probably be surprised by how manageable your symptoms are on the dreaded drop to 0 mg day. I'm on day 10 without any bupe after a three week staggering situation, which didn't seem to work for me because I felt like it put me back at square one (even though I was only taking 1/8 mg every 3 days). Listen to your body and go slow; avoid methadone; don't take to Kratom. Of course Ativan is good. If the med's name ends with 'pam,' you're no detox gam? I just made that up. Do you like it?

That's a penny's worth of my thoughts on the subject. Congratulations on your nascent recovery! And the best of luck to you. You will get through this.
 
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