Wanting to start my first cycle...

[moeyyeahyeah]

hi guys and thanks for taking the time, ive read heaps about aas and know a fair amount about them but no harm in getting more bro science..

Let me start with my stats and training history. Im 26 yo 6ft 240 ponds or 109 kg 16 percent body fat, i know 16 percent is a little bit high to be considering a cycle due to the high blood pressure water retention ectect but im gonna do it either way i believe im ready. I trained for 3 years straight 5 to 6 days. I took a year off and have been back at it for 4 months now and my strength is back at its peak basically other than my squats but it will get there as well. Its hard to explain my routine cos im constantly altering it to keep the body guessing shock tactics seems to work best for me. The fundamentals are always there though as in i always do my compound movements ie squats bench dead lifts ectect. I believe my training is down to a t i know what im doing. Im in and out of the gym in basically forty five minutes usually i dont talk in between sets i train at fairly decnt intensity. A basic rundown of a training day for me just as an example is i do a couple of warm up sets usually 2 to 3 then i proceed with my working sets. Chest and tri i do 4 excersises for chest four sets of each flat bench incline dunbel presses decline bench and cable flys followed by 3 exercises for tris four sets of each aswell close grip bench skull crushers and tricep kickbacks all working sets are carried out in the 12 to 6 rep range all end sets for each exercise are done till failure with max weight thats just an example of what i do just to give you a basic understanding for the way i train but like i said before i vary my workouts slightly every three months.

My current strength levels are fairly decent considering im tall i have long arms and legs so my body compisition isnt really set up to through massive weight around. But i can bench 320 pounds or 145 kg 6 to 8 reps depending how i feel that day im currently able to squat 408 pounds or 185kg 4 to 6 reps bicep curl 132 pounds or 60 kg i dunno how much the ezy bars weigh but thats the weight i put on them.

My natural test levels seem to be fairly high naturally and my genetics i believe to be a bit above the normal, i think this is cos i have taken alot of my dads characteristics he was a professional weighlifter and national champion for 10 years and is now 73 and still goes to the gym and hits the weights 5 to 4 days a week my hats off to him what a legend ive currently got him on creatine and whey protein isolate lol why not. My body also seems to repair at a fairly quick rate aswell i can hit each body part twicw a week with no problem. If i train chest and tris lets say at six in the evening im feeling muscle soreness by like 12 am just before i sleep whereas alot of people i know dont feel it till the next day which is good imo.

My current diet/ eating habits/ supplementation is as follows ill just tell you wjst i ate today it varys slightly day to day but carb/protine intake is the same i just mix up the sources of proteine here and there. Also i have one cheat day a week where ill go out to restaurant and enjoy a bit of the less healthier foods but i dont over do it. It also keeps me on track for the rest of the week its always on my off day my carb intake is slightly higher but it helps with my glycogen replenishment a bit i believe.

I never measure my foods but my carbs are moderate i doubt i have more than 300 carbs a day maximum and my protein is always fairly high.
So i woke up today and had

meal one: A very small plate of white rice with kidney beans and chicken breast
snack one: A apple and handful of almonds
meal two: Sweet potato and piece of fish
pre workout shake taken 45 min prior to work out 50 grams horleys ice wpi
post training 20gram dextrose 10 min later 5 gram creatine blend followed by another fifty gram wpi
meal three: One and a half hours after training little bit of brown rice and chicken breast
meal four: Chicken breast and handful veggies
snack:handful of almonds and little bit of low carb low fat natural yogurts
meal five:before bed chicken breast

this is my basic calorie/food/suppliment intake. I occasionally have joint formula and fish oil tabs and vitamins but i think that you mostly piss them out. I have tried alot of different suppliments but they are all shit imo just whey and creatine for me....

My goal of my first cycle is too put on lean mass i personally believe you can put on lean mass with most types of steroids it all comes down to your food intake.
Alot of people already ask me if im on the gear so i take it people must think that im fairly big, but im not happy with just being big i want to be fucken massive excuse the language but fuck it im bulking till i die....

I know basically all their is to know about pct and the things i should have on hand to combat gyno and side effects so thats not a problem.

This is basically what i want to run for my first time:

12 week cycle consisting of 750 mg test enanthate 1.5 ml mon 1.5 fri and propinate 100mg propinate every other day all exactly the same from week 1 to week 12 i dont think orals are good id prefer to use a faster ester injectable like prop plus most orals retain too much water. Plus i dont really care for immediate strength gains from the orals ill wait for the injectables to kick in plus the prop should boost strengh fairly quick.

Whats your thoughts on the amount i want to run it might be slightly high but i think im ready for it plus i only wanna run one cycle 6 weeks of clean calorie maintanace then a 8 week diet and just maintain.

Any input would be great guys thx for your help peace to all...

 

[mr.buffnstuff]

sounds like a bad choice for first cycle IMO! i think you need to do some more research, firstly orals give too much water retention? anavar, tbol, winny?? i think ull find more retention from test!
YOUR intending to use WAY too much gear, 750mg test E + 400mg test P, over a gram a week? you wont gain anymore from doing such a huge dose of test, just get more sides!
lower your enanthate dose to 500mg per week and use your prop from weeks 1-3 at 100mg EOD, then at the end of your enanthate add the prop in while the enanthate is clearing your body, so start after your last enanthate jab for 3 weeks. give it 2 days after your last jab and start PCT.
maybe save some money on prop and get some hcg to run through the cycle to keep your balls in check!? what will you use as an AI?

 

[Titus]

The other guys here have more knowledge than I so first and foremost my advice is to heed Guido's advice and the others (sorry guys, my memory sucks and I haven't committed the other solid bro's screen names to memory yet).

2nd: Inform your dad about TRT and get him to talk to his dr about it.

3rd: Since this is your 1st cycle I think this is important for you to know. "More" is not necessarilly better, and based on my limited understanding I think that it would be detrimental to your long term goal of getting huge. I speak more to that later

I'm not understanding what your total test intake plan is as Test E comes in different mg/ml strengths as does Test Prop. is. The ammt of ml per day or per week or 2x/per week is not relevant. It is only relevant when we know the strength of your Test E. If the bottle contains 200mg/ml this is different than if it has 250mg/ml or 300mg/ml, etc... understand? Same thing with Test Prop.

White rice intake. Why? Why this rather than another carb with nutritional value? My understanding of white rice is that it has minimal/no nutritional value, it's empty carbs so no good 4 u.

Back to the doses per day/week whatever. If you start your 1st cycle at 750mg of test per week total (I'm assuming this is your plan and don't understand the breakdown of how many mg of test e and test p your planning on taking based on the way you described it) what will your 2nd and 3rd and 4th cycles be? Since you have never done test before, and assuming your workout routine is solid and remains solid (4 months back is OK but there would be less risk of relapse into sucky workout routine consistency if 6 months of back in the gym solid...). you will get GREAT results from doing a test cycle with proper diet and proper gym/lifting routine with less test AND it will then leave you more room to do future cycles with test only or test + whatever. If you ran 500mg or 600mg of test a week total and your diet is dialed in and your workout routine is dialed in you will get GREAT results, period. Great! And then for your 2nd cycle you would still be able to run 500mg or 600mg/week and STILL get great results.

Since it sounds like your going to be running lots and lots of cycles IMO starting with 750mg/week is a pretty big mistake and I'm gussing your assuming that 750mg/week will put more muscle mass on you than 500mg or 600mg/week and I'm not so sure that is the case. Guido and the others can speak to this better than I but think that my understanding here is correct.

Also, I always suggest guys to consider running HCG DURING their cycle. It's newer science behind it but picked it up from a body building bro who is also like a bio-chemist rocket science type guy as a job. Every very experienced bb'er I've ever seen online pays attetion to what this guy says when it comes to the science behind steroids, pct, etc. He's basically a professional biochemist geek or whatever in addition to being a bodybuilder with tons of personal cycle experieince behind him. The short of it is you keep your nuts on cycle and make the transition to PCT easier, quicker, better overall for you. Last cycle I did I used it at 250mg 2x/week. Right through the cycle. I suggest looking into this as part of your cycle. A lot of bro's run it in pct but it's my understanding from this dude I'm mentioning that it's better ran during cycle. So I suggest researching that.

Also, maybe Guido and/or some other guys may talk about the test e and test p running at the same time through the cycle and the pro's cons of doing this vs jumpstarting with prop and just running test e or some other option. Test Prop injections can hurt like a bitch, seriously, where it's like hard for you to stand and sit and walk for a day or 3 after injecting in your ass. Then hard for you to move your arm around or lift it over your head for a day or 3 after a delt injection.....

 

[Titus]

lol, mr.buffnstuff's post wasn't there when I was writing mine but look at some of the stuff they have in common bro. And I only thought you were considering running 750mg/week Total. Over a gram of test a week for a first cycle is KaRAzy IMO. And total waste of money, won't get better gains and will desensitize your body to exogenous test. If you start that as your first cycle by your 4th you'll be running cycles that experienced pro's run. WAAyyyy too much test. bad bad bad. waste waste waste.

 

[mr.buffnstuff]

if hes doing 750mg test e a week in 3ml (2x 1.5ml jabs) his test E must be 250mg/ml. so that PLUS his 100mg EOD prop is a hell of alot of test!

 

[mr.buffnstuff]

if you havent already brought the prop, then dont! just buy some dbol 30mg a day for the first 4 weeks i.e from when you have your first enanthate jab. and at the end throw in another oral like anavar or winstrol 100mg a day for the last 3/4 weeks afteryour last enanthate jab then PCT
id run an AI usually adex, 0.5 E3D soo how you get on with it

 

[toned]

read the red please

hi guys and thanks for taking the time, ive read heaps about aas and know a fair amount about them but no harm in getting more bro science..

Let me start with my stats and training history. Im 26 yo 6ft 240 ponds or 109 kg 16 percent body fat, i know 16 percent is a little bit high to be considering a cycle due to the high blood pressure water retention ectect but im gonna do it either way i believe im ready. You might think you are ready, but you are not....drop body fat first , if you dont then your HBP will be a lot worst when ,you start a cycle,HBP is a silent killer....by the way whats your hbp now?I trained for 3 years straight 5 to 6 days. I took a year off and have been back at it for 4 months you only been back for 4months after a year off and want tot start a cycle???? now and my strength is back at its peak basically other than my squats but it will get there as well. Its hard to explain my routine cos im constantly altering it to keep the body guessing shock tactics seems to work best for me. The fundamentals are always there though as in i always do my compound movements ie squats bench dead lifts ectect. I believe my training is down to a t i know what im doing. Im in and out of the gym in basically forty five minutes usually i dont talk in between sets i train at fairly decnt intensity. A basic rundown of a training day for me just as an example is i do a couple of warm up sets usually 2 to 3 then i proceed with my working sets. Chest and tri i do 4 excersises for chest four sets of each flat bench incline dunbel presses decline bench and cable flys followed by 3 exercises for tris four sets of each aswell close grip bench skull crushers and tricep kickbacks all working sets are carried out in the 12 to 6 rep range all end sets for each exercise are done till failure with max weight thats just an example of what i do just to give you a basic understanding for the way i train but like i said before i vary my workouts slightly every three months.

My current strength levels are fairly decent considering im tall i have long arms and legs so my body compisition isnt really set up to through massive weight around. But i can bench 320 pounds or 145 kg 6 to 8 reps depending how i feel that day im currently able to squat 408 pounds or 185kg 4 to 6 reps bicep curl 132 pounds or 60 kg i dunno how much the ezy bars weigh but thats the weight i put on them.

My natural test levels seem to be fairly high naturally and my genetics i believe to be a bit above the normal, i think this is cos i have taken alot of my dads characteristics he was a professional weighlifter and national champion for 10 years and is now 73 and still goes to the gym and hits the weights 5 to 4 days a week my hats off to him what a legend ive currently got him on creatine and whey protein isolate lol why not. My body also seems to repair at a fairly quick rate aswell i can hit each body part twicw a week with no problem. If i train chest and tris lets say at six in the evening im feeling muscle soreness by like 12 am just before i sleep whereas alot of people i know dont feel it till the next day which is good imo.
^^^^^^NOT once you talked about cardio^, do you do any??? i also recover fast (IMO) but i can tell you when i do,chest and tries on Monday, im still sore on Thursday....by the way, im 41,and i have a routine that i change every 8 weeks, so i might be wrong, but i dont think you are working hard...

My current diet/ eating habits/ supplementation is as follows ill just tell you wjst i ate today it varys slightly day to day but carb/protine intake is the same i just mix up the sources of proteine here and there. Also i have one cheat day a week where ill go out to restaurant and enjoy a bit of the less healthier foods but i dont over do it. It also keeps me on track for the rest of the week its always on my off day my carb intake is slightly higher but it helps with my glycogen replenishment a bit i believe.

I never measure my foods but my carbs are moderate i doubt i have more than 300 carbs a day maximum and my protein is always fairly high.first mistake----you need to measure your food,or at least know the value of the food you are taking...
So i woke up today and had

meal one: A very small plate of white rice with kidney beans and chicken breast not bad but i would have oat meal,and eggs....white rice is no good
snack one: A apple and handful of almonds carbs and fat....where is the protein, you need more protein?
meal two: Sweet potato and piece of fish
pre workout shake taken 45 min prior to work out 50 grams horleys ice wpi is this horley ice wpi,proteinshake???
post training 20gram dextrose 10 min later 5 gram creatine blend followed by another fifty gram wpi IFthis is protein then fine
meal three: One and a half hours after training little bit of brown rice and chicken breast....need some fat here,from olive oil,nuts almonds etc...
meal four: Chicken breast and handful veggies
snack:handful of almonds and little bit of low carb low fat natural yogurts
meal five:before bed chicken breast....here i would have casein protein, instead of chicken...slow release protein

this is my basic calorie/food/suppliment intake. I occasionally have joint formula and fish oil tabs and vitamins but i think that you mostly piss them out. I have tried alot of different suppliments but they are all shit imo just whey and creatine for me.... my opinon bro....drop body fat first,learn how to eat clean...mean while if you want tot drop body fat look at Cyclical Ketogenic Diet....If you stick to it ,you can drop 20 pounds in no time at all

My goal of my first cycle is too put on lean mass i personally believe you can put on lean mass with most types of steroids it all comes down to your food intake.
Alot of people already ask me if im on the gear so i take it people must think that im fairly big, but im not happy with just being big i want to be fucken massive excuse the language but fuck it im bulking till i die....

I know basically all their is to know about pct and the things i should have on hand to combat gyno and side effects so thats not a problem.

This is basically what i want to run for my first time:

12 week cycle consisting of 750 mg test enanthate 1.5 ml mon 1.5 fri and propinate 100mg propinate every other day all exactly the same from week 1 to week 12 i dont think orals are good id prefer to use a faster ester injectable like prop plus most orals retain too much water. Plus i dont really care for immediate strength gains from the orals ill wait for the injectables to kick in plus the prop should boost strengh fairly quick.are way, to much gear, and why run test E,and test prop?, why not just get sust?....500mg of test e is plenty if its gear from the pharmacy, AND they less body fat then you... you dont need any thing else, for first cycle.....reason im saying this, is that i have used up to 2g a week of test from UG, and also run 500mg of test e a week from a pharmacy, and got WAY better results on gear that was not from UG....since you know about PCT...whats your PCT like.
Bro there is websites ( do a google search) that calculates the amount of calories needed to, grow muscle, or loose fat, they even teach you, and calculate for you the food you are eating at the moment....
my 2cents for now....

Whats your thoughts on the amount i want to run it might be slightly high but i think im ready for it plus i only wanna run one cycle 6 weeks of clean calorie maintanace then a 8 week diet and just maintain.

Any input would be great guys thx for your help peace to all...

 

[moeyyeahyeah]

thanks for the input guys just to clarify a few things my blood pressure isn't high i have just read that when your bf is a bit higher your more prone to it as side from the gear. in the mornings white rice seems to keep me fuller than oats for some reason thats why i use it, plus its good to have a fast digestive carb on wake up to kick start everything. @toned you say learn how to eat clean please have a look at my daily food intake there is nothing but clean eating going on. as for casein before bed it gives me gas for some reason don't like it. plus a lot of times have cooked egg whites before bed which are said to release slower than casein i was merely stating what i ate that day when i posted my thread. when i say i don't measure my food its that i don't weigh it but my chicken/fish portions I'm getting at least 40 g protein. as for cardio i forgot to mention it i do 25 min every training day so 5 6 days a week. i never said i don't feel pain days following a good workout i said i feel the pain that night so i believe i repair at a quicker rate than normal. as for pct clomid and aromisin on hand for gyno. also hcg to run during cycle. @ mrbuff and stuff i when talking about water retention and orals i was referring to using orals to kick start strength gains u would use anavar or winny to start a cycle imo i was talking about how d bold and anadrol ectect are used to kick start cycles. how about using .75 ml of test on mondays and fridays so that would be 375 mg of test e and doing the rod of prop and sorry guys when referring to the prop i was planning on using it for the first month only to kick in the strength gains then just running the test e just to clarify also I'm know from the lean mass I'm gonna put on from the cycle my bf is going to drop off a bit if i was to gain 5 kg of lean muscle i would be dropping my bf by about 4 % give or take which would put me at roughly 12 % bf which isn't bad imo also i only plan on running one cycle hopefully so want to maximise by any means so input would be appreciated ... thx again bros!!!!

 

[Titus]

White rice is garbage as far as food is concerned. Guido, mrbuff, toned, please correct me if I am wrong. I know enough to know I don't know as much as any of those guys when it comes to food. There are other carbs that will give you energy and are not garbage. White rice is IMO v. 'un clean' when it comes to diet. Maybe not as bad as eating a bowl of ice cream for breakfast, or a handful of sugar, but it's garbage, or close to it when it comes to clean eating for a bb'er.

 

[moeyyeahyeah]

are you still stuck on this white rice thing, its personal preference its what works for me ok. stop telling me about eating clean have a look at the way i eat its excellent other than the white rice in the morning.... i understand you don't like whit rice..

 

[Titus]

are you still stuck on this white rice thing, its personal preference its what works for me ok. stop telling me about eating clean have a look at the way i eat its excellent other than the white rice in the morning.... i understand you don't like whit rice..

Sorry if you misunderstood. I can understand why. But I don't dislike white rice. I happen to eat it myself. I'm simply explaining that it has NO nutritional value and am not clear whether or not you understand that fact.

 

[moeyyeahyeah]

all good brother i know white rice has very little nutrient in it i ate clean for over 3 years i know the ins and outs for bulking and cutting. white rice seems to give me the most energy and keeps me fuller for longer. just what is working for me, i have tried everything brown rice brown wheat oats the works and its just personal preference thats all....

 

[-Guido-]

stop telling me about eating clean have a look at the way i eat its excellent other than the white rice in the morning....

Brown sprouted or germinated rice is superior to white rice.

Not to be rude but if you ate clean for 3 years you wouldn't be 16% bodyfat.

 

[moeyyeahyeah]

@guido i know what the better choices are, like i said its personal preference. the body fat thing if you read my post properly which i doubt you did i said i trained for three years straight during this time i was hovering at 10 percent mark. i took a year off and i went to probably 25 percent mark because i continued to eat a calorie surplus but didn't workout. since returning back to training like i said for four months now I'm back down to 16 ill bet that I'm even 14 maybe less since posting this due to the fact that my abs are becoming visible. i measured my fat 2 weeks ago and since starting training again and eating the way i have been i been dropping roughly 3 quarters of kg a week,,,,,

 

[Voxide]

So I ventured back into this neck of the woods hoping that this subforum smartened up a bit.



Nope, still a bunch of morons.

 

[-Guido-]

@guido i know what the better choices are, like i said its personal preference. the body fat thing if you read my post properly which i doubt you did i said i trained for three years straight during this time i was hovering at 10 percent mark. i took a year off and i went to probably 25 percent mark because i continued to eat a calorie surplus but didn't workout. since returning back to training like i said for four months now I'm back down to 16 ill bet that I'm even 14 maybe less since posting this due to the fact that my abs are becoming visible. i measured my fat 2 weeks ago and since starting training again and eating the way i have been i been dropping roughly 3 quarters of kg a week,,,,,

Really is no difference between over eating and eating dirty, you end up at the same destination. So what is your body fat? You said you measured it. Lettuce be cereal for a moment, brah.

 

[Renz Envy]

So I ventured back into this neck of the woods hoping that this subforum smartened up a bit.



Nope, still a bunch of morons.

Voxide, you ought to start giving out more advice and inspiring people man. More progress pictures. It's time SD has people that can show for their knowledge.

 

[Titus]

Voxide, you ought to start giving out more advice and inspiring people man. More progress pictures. It's time SD has people that can show for their knowledge.

Is he complaining about newbies looking for advice or ppl giving advice?

 

[Renz Envy]

Newbies. Voxide doesn't like it when people come in here with low stats, asking silly questions and want to get on gear. I agree 80% of the time with him, but some people aren't going to take, "You're not ready for steroids." as an answer.

But honestly I just reread through the thread and OP did not seem too be to bad, but some of the answers were.

 

[Voxide]

Newbies. Voxide doesn't like it when people come in here with low stats, asking silly questions and want to get on gear. I agree 80% of the time with him, but some people aren't going to take, "You're not ready for steroids." as an answer.

But honestly I just reread through the thread and OP did not seem too be to bad, but some of the answers were.

It's everything. The thread starters, the advice that some people have the audacity to give, the topics, the questions.

I mean, Jesus Christ, there's people on this forum that actually believe white rice is equal in nutritional value to brown rice. There's people here who feel the need to run 2 grams of test for their second "cycle". It's only got worse since I left. I know the knowledgeable people in here mean well, but it's like 3 functional people trying to lead around 5 busloads of people who are blind. It's crazy. The people asking stupid questions like "What is a good age to run a first cycle" are the same people who've abused opiates, alcohol, and a slew of other drugs. The damage has already been done to your body. If you feel you're ready and are going to do it anyway, then what the fuck does it matter to you what an experienced bodybuilder has to say? I wish these people would just do their cycle and save the people who actually want to learn some trouble.

brb, eating "clean" for 4 years and being 16% BF
brb, taking 1g of Sus for a 1st run, and then doing 3 grams of total androgens 2 weeks later
brb, working out while high on heroin in the midst of an Anadrol cycle
brb, fucking up my HPTA for life by doing a cycle at 18 and then never posting in here again to avoid saying I made a mistake and being laughed at
brb, asking how many milligrams of Test are in a 10ml 250mg/ml bottle
brb, taking a sedative club drug and honestly thinking it does anything whatsoever other than make you more retarded and braindead with every capful.

Honestly, the things I've read in here are astounding. This subforum needs to be nuked. I'm dead serious. There's impressionable kids that post on bluelight. They'll read some bullshit from a retard who suggests 100mg of dbol per day, and they will destroy their body for life.