Vaping Tryptamines (4-HO-MIPT in particular)

[RobotRipping]

Any adverse health effects from vaping tryptamines in general? I'm speaking purely of vaping them not smoking and combusting them.

Pretty sure vaping DMT hasn't been shown to have any problems but what about some of the others?

5-meo-dalt is amazing when vaped, as is 5-meo-dmt, the 5-meo's seem to vape rather well in general, though i haven't tried 5-meo-dipt or 5-meo-amt (would never try that one).

But i read that the 4-subbed trypts do not vape well, is this really so? I can't find any god damn info on it. I did UTFSE and google but there are maybe 2 reports and they aren't detailed and a few posts saying it's a waste.

I'll be using a DMT machine and am interested in vaping 4-ho-mipt to see how it compares to 5-meo-dalt, 5-meo-dmt, DMT and 5-meo-mipt vaped. I want to vape it because i love the fast onset and the short duration and well, my nose is fucked from ethylphenidate.

Anyone ever try vaping 4-ho-mipt or even any 4-subbed tryptamines? Any ideas about dosing (thinking 5mg is a good place to start for Miprocin)

If the 4 subs aren't great for vaping, what are the best trypts to vape? Simple trypts like AMT,DET,DMT,DIPT,MIPT,MET? and/or just the 5-meo ones?

 

[RobotRipping]

so electrons are going to be removed? or that an oxygen molecule will be added? sorry i don't know chemistry or what you're getting at really lol

does that mean it'll degrade into nothing or turn into mipt? or something non-active? I need more info man!

i don't want to go try it without some info first. I only understand oxidation in terms of electronics and metals!!

 

[Solipsis]

Although oxidation is a very real risk, reports of careful vaporisation of even 4-HO tryptamines say it is succesful. I bet the potentiation from this ROA makes up for some of the product that is lost to degradation. Unless your smoking technique causes too much 'unnecessary' degradation, of course.

Whether the freebase or salt is better is somewhat disputable since a salt would be more resistant to oxidation but also requires a higher temperature to vaporise. Not sure which process 'wins out'. If you do use a salt, the fumarate would probably better yes. These are sold as fumarates often anyway nowadays.

 

[RobotRipping]

i'm actually not sure which form it's in, i'd think fumarate or freebase as most 4-subs come that way but who knows, could be HCL or even another form. It hasn't been lab tested as of yet.

is the oxidation issue something particular to 4-subbed tryptamines? It seems people have had success in vaporizing 4-aco/ho-dipt but can't find anything about 4-aco/ho-mipt. I know people have vaped 4-aco-dmt as well and it also has the oxidation issue but i'll have to look around and see if people found it worthwhile or not.

i'll keep looking around, guess i should throw my miprocin in the freezer though.

I suppose there's no harm in trying to vaporize 5mg? lol i guess i don't need to trip tho, if my nose weren't fucked i'd just snort it. Definitely not up for an oral trip today, which is why i am asking about vaporizing, as well just to be aware if there are any issues with vaping tryptamines of all sorts in terms of lung damage and such.

Thanks Solipsis, that's the consensus i seem to have gathered about 4-subbed tryptamines after browsing around for a while. I have fine vaping skills so will probably give this a shot then. I've vaped plenty of the 5-meo tryptamines many times as well as some PEAs and stimulants. I figure using a DMT machine to vape it will be most efficient, though i do have a volcano and magic flight launch box i could use.

 

[RobotRipping]

well tried 5mg, vaped really easy, not harsh at all, getting moderate tryptamine effects, seems to take a few minutes to really hit. Not bad, i checked and i have the fumarate (well should have), i'm not sure if freebasing it would make a big difference but may try it just to see. Considering how easily it vaped, i'd say it already has a relatively low melting point lol not very scientific but i was vaping some EPH and it needed a lot more heat to vape, same for 5-meo-dalt. Then again it didn't have anywhere near the rush that 5-meo-dalt does...

edit: tried 10mg this time, no rush at all, flame didn't touch it at all, 5 minutes after i just feel stimulation, a bit of psychedelia, pupils went huge but not very visual (MDMA like body buzz), so maybe freebasing it is the way to go or perhaps it's just not meant to be vaped.

ended up snorting 25mg for the sake of research (was bored) and wow it is visual and nice, so vaping the fumarate is definitely ineffective (or inefficient really) for this one! I may try to freebase it and see if it holds up any better.

 

[Solipsis]

Jesus christ, we don't really push people to take drugs here, fixing..

Anyway that said it is a reasonable method to carefully experiment with the effects but doing your homework first is always smart.

Oxidation is not unique to 4-HO tryptamines, it can happen to a lot of organic compounds. Basically if there is an unstable group or if the molecule in its entirety has a sensitivity to become excited, a generally reactive potential, but especially for oxygen (which is a pretty reactive substance) to change it... then a molecule can oxidize.
4-HO tryptamines are a good example of a vulnerable species, if there is a 4-AcO present there is a more stable distribution of energy and the acetyl protects the indolol function from reacting that way. You could say it already reacted and the possible reactions left are relatively more limited.

I think the isopropyl group stabilises the molecule somewhat, but virtually nothing that happens over there at the N-terminus could prevent a 4-HO from being reactive. Still if we consider the entire molecule, the more N-alkyl substitution there is the more that side is protected from reactions. Compared to 4-HO-DMT, 4-HO-MiPT is probably only marginally more stable.

You can test what form you have by checking how readily it does or does not dissolve in water.

 

[RobotRipping]

^thx that was the explanation i was looking for

the 4-acos don't seem to vape that well either really yet the 5-methoxy trypts are all perfect for it, because they are more stable compounds. I don't know if it's because the 4-subd tryptamines degrade and just need to be freebased but they just don't seem have that rush or oomph that 5-meo-dalt or 5-meo-dmt has or even 2c-p or 25i-nbome, it's just severely lacking from my exp with 4-aco-dmt (even freebased), 4-ho-met fumarate and now 4-ho-mipt.

don't worry about fixinahole lol i definitely do my homework before completely diving in, just wasn't sure if it was worthwhile to vape this in the first place, whether freebase, fumarate, acetate, HCL, whatever. Seems like oral/sublingual use is better suited for these guys anyway, the 5-meo-tryptamines are the ones meant for vaping

From my several attempts at vaporization, 4-ho-mipt just didn't hold up at all, whether with minimal heat or full flame, absolutely no rush, just a bit of stimulation and an MDMA type feel for about 30 minutes. So i'd say the melting point of the fumarate is just way too close to the point that it degrades the compound, if i freebase it, it may be a different story, as the melting point goes down by a fair margin with most tryptamines IIRC. I'm not likely to experiment with this though, it's a fine psych for oral use, hits fast, short duration anyway, if i want to vape a psych for a rush there's always DMT, 5-meo-dmt and 5-meo-dalt and plenty more lol.

 

[Solipsis]

That 5-MeO tryptamines pack such a punch is due to different pharmacology. Not only do they have different affinities and efficacies for 5-HT2A but they may also agonize 5-HT1A more and function as reuptake inhibitors for monoamines such as dopamine. All those factors together contribute, but the last factor may be the most suspicious as a possible reason for the extra energetic effects.
Then again I'm not really so sure if 4-HO tryptamines would resemble a 5-MeO tryptamine more if you were to inject (m)ethylphenidate or some DARI like that alongside it.

If vaporising 4-HO-MiPT isn't such a success for you I wouldn't know if this is because your dosage isn't compensating for the degradation of if you are not using a vaping technique that protects the tryptamine, such as one that employs a metal mesh element for dispersion of heat and vapor.

I definitely understand what you mean by what ROA is meant for what compound, but then again there can be benefits from using an unorthodox route. For example I am pretty curious about IM injection of 4-AcO tryptamines because it would combine a rapid form of administration which would result in less 'dilation' and more acute and dramatic effects, with a less rapid form of pharmacological action, the esters being mostly prodrugs as the theory stands and that would result in more 'dilation'.

 

[RobotRipping]

it's not so much that it wasn't a success, more that it lacks that 5-meo-dmt type punch.

i used a DMT machine, with steel wool, no flame touching, didnt take much to start vaporizing (low melting point i assume). that was my first attempt, it had effects for sure but nothing special. second attempt was with more heat and 3rd with direct flame (fuck it attempt lol). I think a dose of 20mg would be necessary even with perfect technique, it just did not feel complete compared to oral dosing. It did give a huge body buzz but completely lacked visuals. So i'm guessing it lost something in the process of vaporizing, as the character of the experience was much different (orally it is extremely visual, vaped it was more MDMA like in feeling).

i was reading about LSD and its analogues and how they have been shown to have direct effects on dopamine receptors (the dispute was on which one), the 5ht1a activity all seems related, but i'm not knowledgeable enough on this stuff to comment aside from my own experiences. Certainly may explain why 5-meo-dalt is such a strange chemical or why 5-meo-dmt packs such a monstrous punch to it.

 

[[éS]Infinite]

I've smoked 4-AcO-DMT freebase wrapped in a rizzla at the bottom of a bowl of cannabis and tobacco with a good deal of success. I only used 4 mg and achieved a definite +2 trip, so 5 mg of 4-HO-MiPT sounds like a good place to start.
I've never tried smoking any other forms of the compound, so I can't say whether or not the HCl or fumarate can be vaped/smoked successfully.

 

[RobotRipping]

i've had varied results with 4-aco-dmt, in freebase and fumarate. I couldn't count how many grams i've ingested of it but i find it unpredictable still. What gets me with vaping the 4-subbed trypts is that there is no rush at all, i know people who IVd the same batches that i've had (of 4-aco-dmt) that had insane experiences but i can't seem to achieve that with vaporization. I wonder if anyone has tried vaping 4-aco-dipt and felt a massive rush from it.

it just seems strange compared to my experiences of vaping every other psychedelic possible. I get effects from vaping 4-ho-met,4-aco-dmt and even 4-ho-mipt but they take like 30 seconds to hit and aren't DMT like or like a simple tryptamine when vaped or even like 2c-x/25i nbome. It's either my technique or just the instability of the compound with regards to heat as IVing these chems will produce a DMT like experience in terms of onset and immersion.

 

[atara]

Whether the freebase or salt is better is somewhat disputable since a salt would be more resistant to oxidation but also requires a higher temperature to vaporise. Not sure which process 'wins out'. If you do use a salt, the fumarate would probably better yes. These are sold as fumarates often anyway nowadays.

Freebase almost surely. Oxidation during smoking is kinetically rather than thermodynamically controlled, so what is important is not the stability of the molecule but how long it is heated and how hot it gets. The amount of oxygen that reaches the substrate is limited by the density of air, while the amount of substrate is limited by the much higher density of the molecule. The bioavailability of many commonly smoked drugs is quite low; nicotine averages a startling 11%:

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.152.3634&rep=rep1&type=pdf#page=49

 

[psood0nym]

To anyone who checks out this thread who has much experience converting tryptamines to their freebase forms: can most tryptamines be converted with the same facility as is enjoyed with the DPT HCl-to-freebase cold ammonia/water conversion method (where the crystals simply float on top to be lifted out by a pre-submerged metal mesh)?

The bioavailability of many commonly smoked drugs is quite low; nicotine averages a startling 11%

I've read that too. It makes me wonder what is happening to the other X percent of these drugs exactly. For example, would nebulizing the drugs result in a profoundly higher BA? If not, what's going on in the lungs to limit the BA?