Benzos Valium dependency switched to Xanax?? Safe? Alternatives?!

[SincereSoul]

Hello,

Firstly, I'm thankful for this site like so many others because it's really like a shoulder to lean on in the dark

As for my question, is it normal or safe, or even recommended that someone who was on valium over an extended period of time (4 years - 20mg) to be switched over to Xanax?? I'm GREATLY wanting to come off of this demon of a med - benzos in general and I'm having a real difficult time.

My hisorty: about four or five years ago I was injured in a car accident and it caused a sever chronic spasm in my neck. I was prescribed valium as a sort of muscle relaxer. It worked better than anything else I could find, soma, etc, you name it - none of that stuff touched my neck muscle spasm but they did put me out! Well, one day I thought I was better and I tried to quit taking the valium cold turky = BAD IDEA = caused me an instant sever panic attack, I mean I thought I was going to black out and impending doom was surrounding me.... very scary stuff to say the least. After that I started taking the valium regularly, monitored, in hopes of tapering down later. Well, I got into so party days around that time and I was doing other dumb things, experimental stuff on drugs but nothng too much.

Now I'm 28 years old and I've been taking 10-20mg of valium for the past few years and vicodin for the past 2 years. I've been reducing the vicodin a lot and am not down to about 5mg and about to start tapering down from that to be completely off of them. I was starting to abuse them towards the end, snorting them and such... really dumb stuff I know but we also know how easy it is to fall unconscious to our own actions and make these types of mistakes.

My short question on this matter is a) could a lot my increased anxiety be from school stress, jobs latest stressors, and of course the sudden decrease from vicodin? The doctor thought I came down too quickly from 20mg to 7.5 to 5mg in the past two weeks. But at the same time he's saying don't worry it's probablyl NOT that?? WHY THE HELL ARE DOCTORS SO WISHY WASHY??!

Long story short, the doctor is trying to tell me that I need them for life most likely and he prescribed me a replacement benzo Xanax and told me to completely stop taking the valium. He said it would mess with me as the valium would be like a shot of whisky and the xanax a shot of vodka. I was concerned about switching the drugs because of all I've read about switching meds, or any sudden stops in taking Valium...

I'm in the dark here and scared out of my mind. I took the xanax for the first this morning in place of my valium an I just didn't like the way it made me feel. Helped a little with the anxiety but also made my really heady and cloudy, almost like I was rocking back and forth inside my head - as well as a mild head ache that's now passed. I know some people actually ENJOY this type of side effect but I literally hate it. I just want to be healthy and indepedently healthy and I truly believe I can be - just don't know what to do guys?

I'm a spiritual guy, not super religious but spiritua and I meditate a lot, etc.

SO what I'm thinking is that I should stick to the valium for now, keep taking my regular dosage while these vicodins get out of my system and then try cutting down from the valium? There were a few nights where I was feeling like I could have taken less valium but since my latest drop in vicodin the anxiety is up - which again - the doctor is telling me isn't possibly on my low dosage????

The best place I can look for real answers is a place like this where real people who have had these experiences can share some light. Plus I understand that there are doctors and nurses who post stuff here to help so ANYTHING would help me!!!

Also, I'm an artist and I've got a big show coming up and my anxiety has been boosted because of the worry and stress of the show. What should have been a happy looking forward to type of experience only became one headache after another as the curator I was working with kept screwing up things and such... just a total head ache.

So am I crazy guys? Should I switch xanax? and can someone like me with the history I've explained to you all - can I really taper off of the valium myself? I've got the on and off again chest tension and the on and off again excellerated heart rate, sweaty palms and sweepy foggy-ness. It's horrible and I'll tell you this much folks, as an artist and a human being, if and when I get the hell off of these poisons I'm going back to my roots of centering myself in my own being - i.e. becoming more meditative, and relaxing in nature, etc. I'm a big believer in the power of nature to heal.

Thanks for listening to my long ramble but I'm just scared out of my wits and feeling like a prisoner in my body.

I went to the ER the other day and they felt that I was weening too quickly and they said that 20mg of valium was REALLY HIGH... and that's something that depending on whom I speak with changes vastly. One doctor will say, ah, that's not a high dosage! while another says it is...

I'm considering not taking the rest of my daily newly prescribed xanax and just using the valium. Maybe I should keep a little bit around just incase I have another bad panic attack or something? But again, I hate the way they make me feel. Less anxiety but more heady crappy feelings

Okay, okay, enough from me!

Tony

 

[B-Diesel-More]

Ok man, first off 20mg of valium isn't a super high dose. Also valium is a very long acting benzo whereas xanax is a short-acting benzo. Valiums half like is something like 24-36 hrs or something and xanax is like 4-8hrs or something like that. Xanax per mg compared to Valium is alot strong. Something like 1mg of xanax is equal to about 10-20mg of Valium. But that is really besides the point. Benzo withdrawl will cause increased anxiety, seizures (can be deadly), insomnia and many other bad side effacts. Also when they want to ween people off benzos Valium is usually what they use because it is so long acting. You could ask your doc for Clonazepam , Klonopin(brand name), which is another long acting drug like valium. If I were you I'd stick with the smae valium dose and taper down very slowly by either cutting the pills in half and going down like 2.5mgs a week or something very slowly. But the best advice is to talk to a doctor who knows alot about benzos and how to taper down from them, perhaps a psychiatrist. I'm assuming you get your Valium script from your PCP or GP. Also it is strange that if you told your doctor you were looking to get off your Valiums that he would prescirbe a short acting benzo to taper you off, that is not how it is done in any benzo taper program so he most likely does not know what he is talking about in regards to benzos. Well I hope this helped you out somewhat. Good luckas

 

[SincereSoul]

Reply

Thanks for the hastey response. That's what I thought, that I should just continue to taper off the valium. I was doing well with just periods of feeling like I needed more. About a month ago I was sometimes up to 30mg a day as it was easy to take another half or so if I had severe anxiety. So in a way, I think my body quickly got used to that extra bit and might be responding a little... plus, as I said I'm coming off of the vicodin and I can feel that it's doing something. You know I've irratible bowls, some clammy hands, etc. I weaned down quickly from 20mg to 5mg - might this be too quick and causing the increased anxiety?

And do you think it would be okay to take a little something extra "IF I HAVE TO" while I'm weaning off?

Also, my doctor did prescirbe a Extended Release formula of xanax... but as I said, it just doesn't feel the same. Maybe it's helping the anxiety but it makes me cloudy headed beyond my control.

any thoughts?!

 

[MiamiRoxi30s]

Thanks for the hastey response. That's what I thought, that I should just continue to taper off the valium. I was doing well with just periods of feeling like I needed more. About a month ago I was sometimes up to 30mg a day as it was easy to take another half or so if I had severe anxiety. So in a way, I think my body quickly got used to that extra bit and might be responding a little... plus, as I said I'm coming off of the vicodin and I can feel that it's doing something. You know I've irratible bowls, some clammy hands, etc. I weaned down quickly from 20mg to 5mg - might this be too quick and causing the increased anxiety?

And do you think it would be okay to take a little something extra "IF I HAVE TO" while I'm weaning off?

Also, my doctor did prescirbe a Extended Release formula of xanax... but as I said, it just doesn't feel the same. Maybe it's helping the anxiety but it makes me cloudy headed beyond my control.

any thoughts?!

It's not a race to taper down...you've been on valium for 2 years
so do yourself a favor and go SLOW otherwise the anxiety will be to much and you will fail.

Stay away from xanax...period

Start by reducing 1mg a week and continue and in 5 months you will be free and clear with little to no withdrawl symptoms

Take it easy/take it slow...why torture yourself only to fail

 

[Vaya]

Valium's half-life is actually closer to 80-100 hours.

"Pharmacokinetics: Diazepam is rapidly absorbed. Oral bioavailability is approximately 100%, and close to 99% is bound in plasma. The half-life of diazepam is 43±13 hours, but ranges from 40-100 hours if the contribution from active metabolites is included. Diazepam is metabolized to nordiazepam which is an active metabolite with a half-life of 40-99 hours."

From: http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/PEOPLE/injury/research/job185drugs/diazepam.htm

That having been said, I, too, was on Valium for nearly five years until November '09, where I safely and successfully switched to Xanax (which I have been on, without incident, since).

However, the logic of your doctor is entirely flawed. Diazepam is a *much* safer benzodiazepine to taper down to nothing from, precisely because it has by far one of the highest half-lifes of any benzo. The longer the half-life, the less pronounced the shift between dosages will be.

With an accumulated tolerance such as yours, Xanax's half-life of a mere 4-6 hours makes it conversely one of the worst choices for cessation of benzodiazepine dependency. In my case, I simply switched because diazepam was causing me to be far too tired for my day-to-day activities.

And, yes, you were moving too rapidly according to the Valium taper schedule you provided! 20mg to 5mg is a huge jump, potentially a dangerous one. There was a time in my life, about 3 years ago, that I decided one and for all to kick benzos. Although I did not succeed, I became intimately acquainted with the wisest tapering schedule I have ever tried.

For my then-five year dependency on valium, my doctor recommended moving from 20-15mg daily doses with 2 weeks between each 5mg drop (25mg for 2-3 weeks, 20mg for 2-3 weeks, 15mg for 2-3 weeks). The determination regarding whether it was 2 or 3 week intervals was left up to me and how I felt physically and mentally after the new shift.

After that, it went by 2.5mg drops every 2 weeks; I had to hover at 2.5mg for about a month after that.

Sadly, I chose to resume my use of benzodiazepines due to uncontrollable anxiety attacks. That's my personal psychopharmacology, though, and NOT a discouragement to get off them. It DOES mean that you should anywhere from 6-12 months to become benzodiazepine free if your resolve is truly there.

I want to finish this post with this: GOOD LUCK my friend! I have been a slave to benzos of all varieties and quantities for going on eight years now. It's been very difficult for me, but I am consistently inspired by good friends of mine who, gradually, are each achieving success at full-on freedom from them. Work the schedule correctly and you will succeed. As with most things in life, however, your situation warrants that patience be the virtue.

~ vaya

 

[Chainer]

20mg is not a high dose... I'm not sure what doc would say it is. For reference, a person with no tolerance would feel a nice recreational high from 20mg valium but not much else. I know people who can take well into 100mg without issue. Personally, I've take 65mg in one go and remembered most of my night.

I've been taking 25mg valium for over a year now. I can not dose for a day or two and feel no ill effects. Sometimes I don't dose at all for a week or two to help reduce dependency risk.

I'm not sure why you were switched to xanax, that's odd because valium is much easier to taper off of because of its half life and it's dosage form (2mg, 5mg, 10mg). Years ago, I made the jump from xanax to valium for tapering, and it worked perfectly.

The cloudiness from xanax is normal. It's still a benzo like valium, however it is stronger on the mg to mg dosage and contains different properties. It should deffinatly manage your anxiety.

In all honesty, I don't know why your PCP didn't tell you to slowly ween off of the valium. You could have easily cut down to 10mg in a few weeks, and then lower from there without any physical W/Ds

 

[SincereSoul]

response

Thanks for all the wonderful responses! This site is a fine resource.

To clarify my doctor wanted me to take 'break through' dosages of xanax in replace of valium for panic attacks etc, and also he prescribed me an 'extended release' xanax for longer durations + an anti-depressant. SO... I walk in asking for help getting off of valium and he tells me that I will need it the rest of my life and then writes me three other prescriptions!

At that point, I just walked out. Having studied up on valium it seemed to me that it would be safer to just keep on my program of 20-25mg a day and then taper down. Seeemed to make more sense and seemed more safe to me.

My addiction from valium was a result of a car accident actually, I was prescribed them for a muscle disorder and then tried to cold turkey them and had no idea what I was doing! I almost blacked out, it was my first panic attack. Quite scarey.

So I don't feel that I began taking them for anxiety but now because of how they react in our bodies, I've gotta keep taking them or else I feel the anxiety! And this is again something my doctor told me would be a life-long thing. He said that some people 'just need them, like a diabetic needs insulin'. While this may be true, I don't feel that I fall in that category. I truly believe that my addiction to valium caused my anxiety as I've never had anxiety prior.

On top of this I was taking vicodin for pain for the past few years. This got out of control and I stopped taking them (after weaning down). I started a few weeks ago and now haven't had a vicodin in four days. I feel the crummy effects of the withdrawal and I am hoping that as soon as my body levels out from this little demon (vicodin) that I will be able to better focus on my valium addiction. In the mean time, I'm just trying to not go up in my dosage but it's been difficult because --- how do you come off of something that feels like you NEED more to take in order to alleviate withdrawals!!

Ahh... it's hell I tell you all!

But I figure, one day at a time, one stressor at a time. A couple years ago I almost weaned completely off of valium with success until I smoked some marijuana and it triggered an anxiety attack! I never thought marijuana could induce someting like that. But it did and I back slid... ended up taking more than I had started with

So again, this is my thinking - let the vicodin run its course of withdrawal, address individual stressors one day at a time and then just slowly (1mg) ever 1 - 3 weeks, wean off of the valium. I know the anxiety will be there and it's going to be difficult but I'm happy with life, I want to live life and I feel in my heart that my addiction honestly is a side effect of a long term tolerance build up. So wish me luck guys and I will do you all the same!

What inspires me is hearing others who contradict the doctors and say, "YES, there is a life managable after benzos! Hearing some your stories really inspires me, I see people who were on far more than me for far longer and to hear that they were able to wean off and become independently healthy again is a blessing and I can only hope I'm one of those blessed.

I will say this, I changed my dosages. I still take my 20mg but instead of getting up and taking 10mg in the morning and then one in the evening, I take 5mg in the morning, 5mg in afternoon and for some reason my anxiety seems more pronounced at night so that's where the other half comes into play.

And again for anyone who smokes pot and is on benzos and also wanting to come off - IF the pot is making it difficult to quit the valium then I strongly suggest you quit smoking for a while. Yeah, life is going to seem a little screwed up for a bit but I have faith that it will level out. Hell, the other night I had a strong anxiety sweep over me and so I had to take an entire 10mg tab and it almost put me asleep! It's been a long time since I felt that way which is telling me that my tolerance is already lowering, at least on a dosage level...

Is this a wise thing to do?!

thanks again

20mg is not a high dose... I'm not sure what doc would say it is. For reference, a person with no tolerance would feel a nice recreational high from 20mg valium but not much else. I know people who can take well into 100mg without issue. Personally, I've take 65mg in one go and remembered most of my night.

I've been taking 25mg valium for over a year now. I can not dose for a day or two and feel no ill effects. Sometimes I don't dose at all for a week or two to help reduce dependency risk.

I'm not sure why you were switched to xanax, that's odd because valium is much easier to taper off of because of its half life and it's dosage form (2mg, 5mg, 10mg). Years ago, I made the jump from xanax to valium for tapering, and it worked perfectly.

The cloudiness from xanax is normal. It's still a benzo like valium, however it is stronger on the mg to mg dosage and contains different properties. It should deffinatly manage your anxiety.

In all honesty, I don't know why your PCP didn't tell you to slowly ween off of the valium. You could have easily cut down to 10mg in a few weeks, and then lower from there without any physical W/Ds

 

[SincereSoul]

Weaning off of Valium (are break-through dosages okay?)

Thanks so much for your advice. I've indeed been taking it slow. But my anxiety is still going up and down... and my question is 'is it okay to sometimes take more while weaning for those REALLY difficult times when it's just nothing but haze and/or we're concerned about our heart rate or blood pressure?

There's so many negative side affects to coming off of valium...

The last thing I want to do is wean to quick and also the idea of having to some days take more while trying to wean only seems like I'm fighting an up-hill battle

To my thoughts, I attribute the additional anxiety to the fact that I was on vicodin (abusing it a little towards the end) for a couple/few years and I came off of it in about a month - this being my fifth day without any dosage of Vicodin. But this morning I had so much darn anxiety I had to take a full 10mg of valium instead of my morning (new plan of taking 5mg).

Is this a bad idea or should I begin looking for alternatives or do you guys who have been through this see this as a given - due to my circumstances of possible vicodin withdrawal and a hella lot of stress going on in my life?

I REALLY want to beat this but the doctors have me scared telling me that it's like having diabetes and that once you're on something like valium you only get more addicted, etc.. they really have a way of scaring the hell out of us dont they!!!

The thing that scares me the most is that my heart rate will often jump up a bit and even my blood pressure. Other than that, my digestive track has been back and forth from solid to... well you know!

I just want to make sure I'm doing everything I can.

ALSO: I looked into the plan of reducing by 1mg a day until weaned off but again, what about the break through anxieties that happen? Is it back pedaling to take an extra dose instead of staying in a state of high anxiety?!!

Thanks again everyone!

It's not a race to taper down...you've been on valium for 2 years
so do yourself a favor and go SLOW otherwise the anxiety will be to much and you will fail.

Stay away from xanax...period

Start by reducing 1mg a week and continue and in 5 months you will be free and clear with little to no withdrawl symptoms

Take it easy/take it slow...why torture yourself only to fail