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Social Justice Universal Health Care Discussion Thread

JessFR

JessFR

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This thread has been created to discuss matters of public health care, and particularly the idea of American universal health care, after the discussion came up in the black lives matter thread.

Since the discussion seems worthwhile and it had dragged the original topic off course, this thread is being created to house that discussion and similar ones of the merits of a universal health care systems.
 
JessFR said:
It's because we are brainwashed from a young age to believe that we live in the best country in the world and that everywhere else in the world dreams of coming to America.

Americans otherwise don't think too much about the rest of the world so they often don't realize how subpar things actually are compared to the other wealthy western countries.
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There might be things here and there other countries have better but overall quality of life it’s hard to beat amarica. Actually it’s the opposite the youths brainwashed by liberal nutjob teachers that America’s evil. U should probably give a heads up to all those people trying to come here to turn around because it’s so horrible lol
 
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There’s a lot of countries where you can do everything right and still be starving. In amarica if you finish school, don’t have kids before your career and stay out of trouble there’s an overwhelming chance you will be successful. Amarica’s providing a good life for a lot of people take a look at the average income of the world then what the average amarican makes. I don’t like the direction this countries going because everyone wants crap for free now because they feel entitled and we’ve had it good
 
alasdairm said:
^ just simple curiosity but do you spell it "amarica" deliberately? what's the reason?

alasdair
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Accident, at work and multi tasking. Honestly this craps a waste of time everyone has there mind made up but it just baffles me how little respect people have for this country these days. There’s people fleeing third world countries that failed them that have more pride in there country then a lot of Americans, makes no sense
 
@bmf666

If you compare the US to wealthy Western countries it doesn't look so good, IMO. Obviously if you compare it to third world countries, it's going to look great but that doesn't mean anything. There's a reason that US cities basically never make it into the top 10 most liveable cities in the world. Australia is basically America Plus. Free healthcare. Low homicide rate. Politicians who aren't insane. I don't see any advantage of living in the US, other than Disneyland... and the quality/availability of cocaine.

Having said all that - sure - some people in the US take the country for granted but there's also a lot of national pride.
 
Well I’ve been to Australia and I remember beer costing $13 a pint. The cost of living is really high. I dated a girl in Melbourne and when she’d visit she’d always comment how much cheaper everything was and seemed pretty happy to be over here. It’s not hard to leave America, I agree things can be better but that’s mostly because we don’t take advantage of our position. We’re losing in every trade deal we’re in, pay way more for medicine then the rest of the world allowing them to get the same stuff while we’re paying for all the r&d as well as spend a ton on our military so other countries can contribute the bare minimum. Imagine if Russia or China was the super power do you think we’d be better off? How much do we contribute to nato and give away in foriegn aid?
 
I agree and I disagree. $13 is a crazy price for a pint. That's not normal. I paid $7 for a pint last time I went to the pub.

The cost of living is higher in Australia, but there is also a minimum wage and a much better welfare support system than the US. Medical costs in America are outrageous. If you get sick, your fucked. This is more significant than paying a bit more for a beer.

The existence of the US is good for the world. Many people on BL would probably disagree with me on that, but it's true. Australia relies heavily on allies for security and the US is our most important ally in that respect... but that doesn't mean I want to live there. It has nothing to do with liveability.

What baffles me is why people choose to move to America instead of Australia/NZ, especially considering how destabilized it has become politically. I am probably biased, but I fail to see the appeal.
 
If your goal is to rely on a minimum wage then yeah it can suck in America. You literally have to apply zero effort and not give a crap to make minimum wage. I’m an electrician and make $51 an hour and I’ve made tons of mistakes in my life. The damn sweeping ladies on our job site don’t even speak English and they make $15 an hour. I really hope America doesn’t go to free healthcare. I don’t see why everyone wants to cater to the people that don’t even care about themselves. It’s not hard to get a job with benefits, if someone doesn’t care about there health why should everyone else foot the bill. Having great health coverage is a nice perk to my job I made sure I had. Everywhere I hear that has free healthcare is extremely backed up and as big as American is and the fact we let everyone in it would be a nightmare. If we actually enforced our borders it might no be that bad but the way things are there’s no way I want to pay for other people that don’t give a shit.
 
bmf666 said:
pay way more for medicine then the rest of the world allowing them to get the same stuff while we’re paying for all the r&d
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Why are you blaming foreigners for the framework surrounding prescription drugs, when it's domestic elements which created that framework? The USA doesn't "allow" anyone to get away with anything...so we're supposed to have this incredibly f-up healthcare system we have because, we're just too charitable and nice to foreigners? As opposed to the more prosaic explanation of, I don't know, pure greed?

The idea that R&D determines the high cost of Rx drugs in the USA is pure unadulterated propaganda from the pharmaceutical industry. In reality a lot of these major pharma companies, most infamously Valeant Pharmaceuticals (but many others too), devote only a fraction of its total revenue into R&D (and even then much of the R&D is done in regards to minor alterations of existing drugs)
 
@bmf666

I don't earn minimum wage. I'm happy for my tax dollars to ensure that my fellow citizens don't go broke if they get cancer. With all due respect, you don't seem like the most compassionate person in the world... As I said earlier, I don't believe it is beneficial long-term (for most people) to give them "free money". I do - however - think healthcare is a basic human right.
 
Burnt Offerings said:
Why are you blaming foreigners for the framework surrounding prescription drugs, when it's domestic elements which created that framework? The USA doesn't "allow" anyone to get away with anything...so we're supposed to have this incredibly f-up healthcare system we have because, we're just too charitable and nice to foreigners? As opposed to the more prosaic explanation of, I don't know, pure greed?

The idea that R&D determines the high cost of Rx drugs in the USA is pure unadulterated propaganda from the pharmaceutical industry. In reality a lot of these major pharma companies, most infamously Valeant Pharmaceuticals (but many others too), devote only a fraction of its total revenue into R&D (and even then much of the R&D is done in regards to minor alterations of existing drugs)
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Yeah and our government let’s them rape us. By charging the shit out of us there able to sell there products for cheaper elsewhere. I agree it corruption so not sure what we’re arguing here. The fact is we pay way more then everyone else and the evil Americans are once again footing the bill
 
Honestly good day we’re obviously so far off all this crap does is get me mad not wasting my time
 
birdup.snaildown said:
@bmf666

I don't earn minimum wage. I'm happy for my tax dollars to ensure that my fellow citizens don't go broke if they get cancer. With all due respect, you don't seem like the most compassionate person in the world... As I said earlier, I don't believe it is beneficial long-term (for most people) to give them "free money". I do - however - think healthcare is a basic human right.
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So all medical should be free? Anytime someone wants to go to the doctor they can? Man that would be a nightmare. Guess you just got more faith In people. If everyone was honest and did the right thing I’d be fine with that. The truth is I know I do and a lot of people don’t so I’d be paying for people drug hunting and going to the doctor or every little thing. If they had to pay out of pocket they’d probably not go because it wasn’t that important but since it’s free people would abuse the hell out of it. The military is a pretty good example of how it would go in America. There’s no way health care would be on that level because we spend an insane amount on our military and since I’m retired I have free games healthcare but I choose to use my union insurance because they suck. Guess I feel some things are worth paying for

‘Free va healthcare’ spellcheck put games for some reason

I put it in another post on this board but after the military I got a bs job at Lowe’s just to stay busy. If you worked full time they gave u health coverage yet there was a ton of them that refused to work full time since they’d lose there free healthcare and benifits. I bet you that’s the reality of 90% of these poor people you think need to be helped. I guarantee very few of them legitimately can’t do it and most of them are just taking advantage of the system. There was this young white girl there that was a manager after 9 months and worked her butt off. The leeches that wouldn’t work full time had been there for years and did the bare minimum
 
bmf666 said:
There might be things here and there other countries have better but overall quality of life it’s hard to beat amarica. Actually it’s the opposite the youths brainwashed by liberal nutjob teachers that America’s evil. U should probably give a heads up to all those people trying to come here to turn around because it’s so horrible lol
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Of course America is a better place to live than a lot of the world. But that is not the point. The point is that most if not all of the rest of the developed first world is beating us on pretty much every measure of quality of life. Better health care, better education, better opportunities.

And it shouldn't be, the United States has so much wealth, we should be leading the world in these respects. But we're not and it's not helped by people pretending through blind misguided patriotism that things are better than they are. Assuming America is the best and thinking that doesn't have to be maintained is why America has fallen so far behind.
 
bmf666 said:
So all medical should be free? Anytime someone wants to go to the doctor they can? Man that would be a nightmare.
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That's exactly how a lot of the western developed world works, if not free then enormously subsidized. And the health care statistics speak for themselves.

America is NOT the best country in the world. It should be. Maybe it used to be, and I wish very much that it still were. But it's not. And a lot of that falls on people like you who refuse to see how far behind we really are.
 
JessFR said:
That's exactly how a lot of the western developed world works, if not free then enormously subsidized. And the health care statistics speak for themselves.

America is NOT the best country in the world. It should be. Maybe it used to be, and I wish very much that it still were. But it's not. And a lot of that falls on people like you who refuse to see how far behind we really are.
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Man you are so wrong I’m just going to leave it.
 
Blind? I’m living pretty good and I never went to college and wouldn’t exactly say I’m an over achiever. So because you live in a rich country you’re entitled to other peoples crap? Only problem I have with this country is I pay to much in taxes to pay for all the free crap you people cry about. You want free healthcare join the military or he’ll work at Starbucks. Again it’s not hard to leave this country kinda funny how few people end up leaving here but people with way less means manage to make it here
 
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