Trying to get off opiates for good

[Em09]

Hi all, I'm looking for some advice/support on getting off opiates.
I'm a 33 year old female and I have been using for 6 years with 2 breaks of about 8 months (whilst on methadone) my doc is heroin (snorting/smoking) although I have used pain pills or methadone if I couldn't get h. I have usually used around 1g per day sometimes more sometimes abit less.

I have tried quitting a few times lately using methadone taper for 3/4 days but keep relapsing on day 5 or 6 (stupid I know).
Anyways I really want to quit as I'm over spending so much money on drugs which could be spent on much better things and I want to be a better mother and wife and just feel happy and enjoy life.

I got back on methadone 3 weeks ago and have been taking between 30-60mg 3-4 days a week and using h on the other days. I last used h yesterday and had methadone today and plan on taking for next 3 days to help with the withdrawals but I'm worried I may then get withdrawals from the methadone (as I have been taking it 3/4 days a week for 3 weeks) does anyone know if I will get bad withdrawals from the methadone when I stop in the next few days?

I'm a stay at home mum and my husband works away so I have a baby and 3 year old to look after on my own. No family or friends know about my addiction, only my husband as I have always hidden it well. I'm just so over living like this! I used to get motivated and have energy when I used and felt like a good mum and wife as I would get everything done and have so much patience but these days it just seems to make me depressed and unmotivated when I use.

I just want to enjoy life with my family. I want to be happy and healthy and exercise. As I'm busy with my kids I haven't been eating very well or exercising so I also need to work on that as I know it will help my recovery so any advice on things I can be doing would be much appreciated as well.

Thanks for taking the time to read and any feedback would be appreciated

 

[Furrfurr]

Hi there and Welcome! I to am a wife and Mom ( to 5) and currently trying to get clean. I am currently detoxing through Subs ( not through a doc, on my own). I on day 7. There's a lot of good info on these boards as well as support. I have never used Methadone only heard what I have read on the boards here. Mixed opinions on it but I seem to read people are in favor of detoxing through Subs. Have you considered that?
I hear ya on wanting to be a good mom and wife again. Drugs take us away from our loved ones and make we become selfish people.
Start taking daily vitamins and walks everyday, with your family if you Can! It will help! Don't give up! We are out there and we need to support each other in recovery!

 

[vlsol]

You seem motivated Em09. I really wish you the best.

Methadone and buprenorphine (Subutex) has more prolonged (but less intense) withdrawal periods.

There's no way to fully avoid withdrawal but you can make it more bearable through tapering. What matters most is that you're motivated and that you set the right goals for yourself, and I recon you do!

 

[Em09]

Thanks for your reply. That's great ur on day 7! I hope to be there soon.

Are u managing ok? Especially as you are a mum of 5! Are they young or older? It's hard when they are so young as they need us for everything.

I have considered subs but I'm really hoping to not be on a maintenance drug. I have used h to get off methadone in the past and methadone to get off the h so it's a loose loose and I really want to be free from them both.

I have started taking vitamin b and will start taking my baby for walks in pram whilst my 3 year old is at daycare as he is a runner. Summer is just starting here so the weather is beautiful which will help me to get out and walk. Stay strong

 

[Em09]

Thanks vlsol. I know would be best to taper and if I had been taking it daily for awhile I would however as it's only been 3 weeks and I have been not taking everyday I'm hoping that withdrawals aren't too bad.
I'm not underestimating the withdrawals of methadone as I know they can be really awful it's just wishful thinking I suppose.
If w/d are really unbearable I will just go back on and do a slow taper ?

 

[Jabberwocky]

Have you ever been stable on methadone? It sounds like you'd benefit most not from increasing your opioid intake or cutting it off either, but maintaining a steady amount allowing you to get on with other aspects of your life.

It's incredibly hard being a young mother (or parent) and having entire live humans to care for. Because with this recovery stuff, that is about learning to take care of one's self more skillfully. When you have to "be on call" for a young child or other love one, there is a lot less time for taking care of one's own needs.

Have you ever thought of integrating caring for yourself with caring for your young one? I know many a parent who either got involved in mindfulness stuff after seeing their kids benefit or their kids getting involved in it after seeing their parents benefit.

I guess my main questions revolve around what you think is keeping you from stability right now. If you want off opioids, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that - it's a very desirable goal after all. But try to look at the long game with this - getting off methadone ASAP right now might actually be counter productive to not using longer term.

As I said, stability with something like methadone can do wonders to helping you learn non-drug use approaches to managing your mood and wellbeing, and then once you have healthy lifestyle practices implemented you will more able to get off methadone (and not have to try to get off of it using heroin, as that is notoriously problematic).

One of the biggest reasons I floundered in recovery attempts for so long is because I just wanted off the merry-go-round NOW! But that isn't always the most realistic of choices, as it takes a lot of time, effort, practice and LEARNING to implement new, healthier habits that will allow you to no longer have to just rely on drug use as a means of taking care of your emotional/psychological/spiritual wellbeing.

Once I committed to doing EVERYTHING I could to the form of treatment I found most useful (in my case, after a decade of injection heroin methadone as my best option), like looking at it really as an investment in my future self even when it was a PITA (as clinics tend to be) and taking a long game approach to recovery, that was what really made the difference.

Meds like buprenorphine and methadone aren't going to make of break someone's recovery, but they can provide the stability necessary to make substantial progress mid-long term. Let us know how you're doing OP/what your plans are.

 

[Em09]

Have you ever been stable on methadone? It sounds like you'd benefit most not from increasing your opioid intake or cutting it off either, but maintaining a steady amount allowing you to get on with other aspects of your life.

It's incredibly hard being a young mother (or parent) and having entire live humans to care for. Because with this recovery stuff, that is about learning to take care of one's self more skillfully. When you have to "be on call" for a young child or other love one, there is a lot less time for taking care of one's own needs.

Have you ever thought of integrating caring for yourself with caring for your young one? I know many a parent who either got involved in mindfulness stuff after seeing their kids benefit or their kids getting involved in it after seeing their parents benefit.

I guess my main questions revolve around what you think is keeping you from stability right now. If you want off opioids, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that - it's a very desirable goal after all. But try to look at the long game with this - getting off methadone ASAP right now might actually be counter productive to not using longer term.

As I said, stability with something like methadone can do wonders to helping you learn non-drug use approaches to managing your mood and wellbeing, and then once you have healthy lifestyle practices implemented you will more able to get off methadone (and not have to try to get off of it using heroin, as that is notoriously problematic).

One of the biggest reasons I floundered in recovery attempts for so long is because I just wanted off the merry-go-round NOW! But that isn't always the most realistic of choices, as it takes a lot of time, effort, practice and LEARNING to implement new, healthier habits that will allow you to no longer have to just rely on drug use as a means of taking care of your emotional/psychological/spiritual wellbeing.

Once I committed to doing EVERYTHING I could to the form of treatment I found most useful (in my case, after a decade of injection heroin methadone as my best option), like looking at it really as an investment in my future self even when it was a PITA (as clinics tend to be) and taking a long game approach to recovery, that was what really made the difference.

Meds like buprenorphine and methadone aren't going to make of break someone's recovery, but they can provide the stability necessary to make substantial progress mid-long term. Let us know how you're doing OP/what your plans are.

Thanks for your reply it really made me think differently of taking methadone.

I have been on it in the past but probably not for long enough and probably on a too small of dose at only 30mg as I still thought about using and often did use. Recently I was on 60mg and I found that I didn't use as much or even think about it as much.

I got up to 6 days clean (no methadone either) and then used a tiny amount yesterday. I had just been feeling so exhausted with no energy and I really needed to get some house chores done so used a small amount. I feel ok today and am hoping I feel ok tomorrow after my slip up.

I know what you mean about wanting to get off the merry go round. I want it all to stop and just to be off it all NOW. My plan is to take it a day at a time and if I'm struggling too much I will just go back on methadone. Do you still take methadone? I think I need to stop viewing methadone as a legal form of dope and if the clinics/pharmacies gave out more takeaways like they used to I probably wouldn't mind being on it so much. Thanks again

 

[Jabberwocky]

I took methadone for about 2.5 years, and I successfully transitioned off methadone and all other opioids a little over a year and a half ago.

The best thing about methadone is the stability it brings once one stabilized on it though. Not having to worry about whether/how to get drugs or be involved in anything shady or illegal was the best part about the program for me.

Without the stability of methadone I never would have been able to come to terms with my opioid use, which basically involved the realization that it was possible to love what I got from opioids in terms of positives while also recognizing how my use of them has harmed me. That kind of awareness and understanding made it so much easier to let opioid or drug use go and work more on improving my QOL and accomplishing what I wanted to accomplish in my life.

Getting back on methadone with the primary goal of stabilizing on it is a really good option for you I think. It’s hard not to want to just get this over and done with, but with anyone who has had a really serious relationship with opioid use change those kinds of habits involved slow, long term growth and planning.

So I’d suggest getting back on methadone and only letting yourself worry about how you’ll stabilize on it. What dose were you most comfortable with before? Don’t worry about the particular number amount of the dose you stabilize on. Some people need over a hundred mgs to get over cravings for other opioid use. Other needs less, others yet more. It all depended on what works you as an individual. There is no ideal dose amount for everyone.

Once you have stabilized on methadone for, I’d say a minimum of six months, where your waking life hasn’t revolves around struggling to manage cravings, at that point and only then is it really worthwhile thinking about getting off.

After six months of stability on methadone, only then start working on coming off. It depends on the dose and how long someone has been on methadone, but for most people it seems like we need to spend at least a year tapering. But again, it’s more important to manage the taper skillfully than it is to rush coming off. With the taper you don’t want to move any faster than you can manage with relative ease. That means taking breaks from the taper when you really notice dosage reductions, as well as lowering the amount you drop by. It might sound totally overwhelming, but tapering no fast than 1mg per week is really ideal for most situations.

Generally I think folks are best off spending at least as much time tapering as they were stable on methadone. I found it useful to spend more time taper than I spent stabile on any dose though. The time spent stable as well as comfortably tapering is actually really important in another regard, in that it gives your the opportunity to do work outside ORT or even recovery specific treatments. For me that ended up meaning learning how to practice mindfulness based stress reduction and related stuff, and to really integrate it into my life. And that is another important reason to prioritize comfort in any effort tapering.

This isn’t a sprint, much more so a marathon. But more so it isn’t even a race, it’s about taking the time you need as someone with a unique set of causes and condition coloring your life, and figuring out what you need to do for yourself in terms of continuing to grow as a person, overcome your problem areas, and develop healthy coping mechanisms.

After all, gettirn of methadone will require you to rely heavily on the coping skills you’ve cultivate while taking your time with methadone. When I got off methadone, I cannot begin to tell you how useful having healthy ways to regulate my mood and take care of myself was. Doesn’t matter what it ends up being for you, the point is to find what works for you in terms of taking good care of yourself. It will also help you big time when it comes to taking care of those you love most in the world.

The stigma surrounding methadone treatment and ORT is really shitty though. IMO it is largely what conditions is to want off methadone so fast, to wish our problems would just resolve overnight. With long term habits though, this kind of thinking is just really unrealistic however. Very rarely is anyone able to over come great challenges and turn them into oppertunities for growth overnight. It’s far more a developmental kind of process, it involves a LOT of learning, trial and error, a willingness to explore and try new things and make mistakes, and learning how to cultivate resiliency and pick ones self up after making a mistake.

The bottom line is, there is absolutely nothing wrong with taking medication like methadone. According to all the research that has been done in various treatments for severe opioid use disorder, it is actulally the single most effective form of treatment available to folks who struggle with this condition in the US.

If you’re gonna use it, and I do suggest you try again, be serious about your commitment to using it properly, working with your case manage and clinic director, and use it however you need, without regard for any of the bigoted haters out there (and there are lots in the recovery game who vilify and misrepresent what methadone or ORT is), only with consideration for your own needs and what or does not work well for you.

Getting back on methadone won’t be a walk in the park, I can guarantee you that. But it also doesn’t have to be super difficult - generally speaking it will only be as difficult as you allow it to be. If you can learn to use the treatment in a more skillful way, the potential for benefiting long term are beyond description.

And if you find it impossible to stabilize on methadone, which with enough trial and error I would doubt, well then and only then can you try and figure out a better approach for yourself. But with enough patience I am confiden you’ll be able to stabilize on methadone for six months or more and then move into a successful taper and transition off when you’re ready, in your own time.

It essentially a matter of try, try, try again, like anything else when it comes to recovery and learning turn unhealthy habits into oppertunities to integrate healthier habits into your daily routine. There are some tips, such as what I’ve laid out with how your initial goal should only concern stabalizatuon or how you can successfully taper off. If you have any questions or concerns please don’t histate to ask. I’ve been around the block with this for myself and countless others, and I’m happy to offer feedback and support anytime at all.

And btw as long as you aren’t failing UAs past the initially stabilization (so after the first month or three you are in it again), all clinics over ever been familiar with will start giving you takehomes. With longer periods or no dirty UAs they will give you more taker homes. I think I ended up with four in the first four or five months on it l, as I hadn’t failed any UAs. And in some major cities you can probably find clinics more willing to give out more take homes even when you do slip up and fail a UA.

But what I’m trying to say is that with enough clean time you’ll get your take homes, and as long as you don’t try to double or triple dose with them all the time take homes definitely make things a bit easier.

 

[CBNJ2357]

Honestly, if you have the opportunity I'd go to a well recommended detox place that way you're not suffering through the withdrawals. Then try vivitrol. I was extremely reluctant, but it did help with cravings immensely to the point it was almost non existent. When the thought did pop in my head, the thought that I couldn't get high was enough to keep me from trying. Lasts a month (which helps cus I know plenty of people including myself who simply stop taking their subs for a couple days) and was somewhat expensive for me, but I thought shitttt I'd spend that in a day or two on the streets anyway.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Honestly, if you have the opportunity I'd go to a well recommended detox place that way you're not suffering through the withdrawals. Then try vivitrol. I was extremely reluctant, but it did help with cravings immensely to the point it was almost non existent. When the thought did pop in my head, the thought that I couldn't get high was enough to keep me from trying. Lasts a month (which helps cus I know plenty of people including myself who simply stop taking their subs for a couple days) and was somewhat expensive for me, but I thought shitttt I'd spend that in a day or two on the streets anyway.

In the specific case of the OP that is horrible advice.

 

[CBNJ2357]

I'm just curious but with the exception of her being the only one around to watch her baby and 3 year old, why do you feel this would be horrible advice?

Seems methadone helps her somewhat but the ability to still get high coupled with the fear of physical withdrawals keeps bringing her back to relapse.

 

[Jabberwocky]

It has to do mainly with two things. Methadone is great for cravings, even at low doses. Naltrexone does almost nothing on a pharmacological level compared to methadone (ULDN may, but that isn't what Vivitrol is). The second thing is that transitioning from methadone to naltrexone would be incredibly difficult given her situation. Making it very impractical.

The OP would be better off working outside drug treatment specific stuff to stabilize. What is it that makes her want to use on top of the methadone? Work on figuring that out, slowly taper off if she wan't off, and manage the taper/detox appropriately.

Naltrexone may come into the picture once she is well off methadone, but most definitely not before (and even after, it's a big if - naltrexone just doesn't work that well for most people, particularly someone in the OP's position in terms of circumstance).

The more she can do to address the issues she's having underlying her drug use problem, the more manageable the drug use aspect will become.

 

[CBNJ2357]

Good points

 

[Snowbird39]

I feel you I'm in same boat but out of town. Working here lonely boredbores a d want a better life . pm phone numbers