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Thoughts On Mental Illness

CrackAndScrabble

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Well, the field of psychology and our understanding of the brain changes everyday. Mental illness has many implications and explanations across all fields of study. In America's medical industrial complex, they often push a reductionist view point that mental illness is completely biologically based.

With this model they have been able to push drugs with questionable efficiency and unknown side affects.

Does society stand to benefit from these practices?
 
Well, the field of psychology and our understanding of the brain changes everyday. Mental illness has many implications and explanations across all fields of study. In America's medical industrial complex, they often push a reductionist view point that mental illness is completely biologically based.

With this model they have been able to push drugs with questionable efficiency and unknown side affects.

Does society stand to benefit from these practices?

as far as anti psychotics I'd say yes. Some people need lithium and other crap to not completely loose their shit. But I generally must disagree with the majority of the practice, like prescribing Ritalin to kids and industry practices like paying doctors to give out prescriptions.
A lot of psychological "ills" can be fixed with a change of diet. Like I used to be severe Adhd, all the drugs they had did jack shit for me, but I stopped having problems once I cut milk from my diet. Similar goes to things like red dye and artificial sugars for other people.

You have things like depression which can also be diet related as well as needing psychotherapy rather than a maoi inhibitor and other bulshit. A lot of people just need to go out in the sun more.

in conclusion... sometimes.
 
I'm not sure we have a particularly healthy attitude to divergent mental states in the west at all. We place too much emphasis on the re-adoption of behaviours seen as "normal" and tend to treat patients as collections of symptoms rather than individual humans. The main problem mental sickness poses is whether it is debilitating, or whether the person can be safely allowed to live in the world sane people inhabit without risk to themselves or others. Beyond that, if we're talking about the really serious mental illnesses like schizophrenia, all we can do is refine our methods of treatment.

My main issue with our attitude is we rarely give credence to genuine insight if it springs from an "unwell" mind, when there are probably countless examples of individuals with mental health issues, living on the periphery of consensus reality, making profound contributions to the sum of human knowledge and cultural wealth. John Nash, Allen Ginsberg, Robert M Pirsig and Ludwig Wittgenstein come to mind.
 
The establishment for the most part really does not care about healing your mental illness. All they really want is to medicate you with their products that ensures they make a profit whilst also affording the person just enough mental stability that they can get back to work and pay taxes. Just like with regular medicine there are many simple treatments and alterations of lifestyle that would produce a much better change in the person than the solutions the establishment offers! As was said above, a change of diet is usually a good place to start. Also because of their reductionist view they have completely isolated "Mind" as a biological phenomina that occurs in the brain when infact anyone who's done a bit of personal investigation knows that mind is beyond the brain.. and because of this a totally seperate realm of health has been neglected from our science. In particular the influence of entities; there are more than enough people who claim to be possessed or perceiving an intelligence other than their own to warrant a serious investigation in regards to mental health. Unfortunately this does not happen because we know entities do not exist, because we deemed it superstition *facepalm*
 
The establishment for the most part really does not care about healing your mental illness. All they really want is to medicate you with their products that ensures they make a profit whilst also affording the person just enough mental stability that they can get back to work and pay taxes. Just like with regular medicine there are many simple treatments and alterations of lifestyle that would produce a much better change in the person than the solutions the establishment offers! As was said above, a change of diet is usually a good place to start. Also because of their reductionist view they have completely isolated "Mind" as a biological phenomina that occurs in the brain when infact anyone who's done a bit of personal investigation knows that mind is beyond the brain.. and because of this a totally seperate realm of health has been neglected from our science. In particular the influence of entities; there are more than enough people who claim to be possessed or perceiving an intelligence other than their own to warrant a serious investigation in regards to mental health. Unfortunately this does not happen because we know entities do not exist, because we deemed it superstition *facepalm*

lol

... these investigations are happening all the time everywhere.
:\

but "if such a thing was to be made public" most of the worlds population would lose their shit, not give a cats whisker drawing it up to superstition, or would just pretend they didnt hear that....denial and the Nial etc.

cacophonaut
My main issue with our attitude is we rarely give credence to genuine insight if it springs from an "unwell" mind

and most "well" minds would not be seen as so, and then stay that way for long - round and round it goes

__________________________________________
=D
Remote viewing is nothing new in Tibetan monasteries. For thousands of years remote viewing in the middle of other spiritual activities have dominated Tibetan culture. What some Indian tourists came to learn from a few Tibetan monasteries under the current Chinese rule is extremely alarming and fascinating.
...
According to the remote viewers, our earth is blessed and is being saved continuously from all kinds of hazards all the time that we are not even aware of. As our technologies progress we will realize how external forces saved us.

http://www.indiadaily.com/editorial/12-26-04.asp
N.K. Subramanium, Special Correspondent
December 26, 2004


imagining and assuming of infinite are two very different things.
 
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From a physician's perspective, a person is mentally ill if they're failing at life, and their mentations are to blame.

Every society has standards that it teaches its young and expects is citizens to follow. This includes a lot of things that people are expected to, from an appropriate age on, do for themselves with minimal help. When a person fails to reach a milestone, or reaches it and then regresses back, society labels this a problem, and deems the person in need of help to correct that problem and [re]reach that milestone. For example, in the USA, it is considered problematic and unacceptable to start neglecting personal hygiene, or to stop caring about finding gainful employment. When this happens, doctors, psychologists, social workers, and other professionals called in on the case examine the person and his life in search of a culprit. When the person's pattern of mental activities appear to be driving the unacceptable behavior, he is deemed to have a mental illness, and efforts are focused on eliminating or correcting the mentations that appear to be leading to the unwanted behavior patterns. These efforts can involve drugs, but just as often not, depending on what the mentations (and resultant behaviors) are, and how deeply ingrained they are in that person.

The point is that the notion of mental illness is based upon a concern for the greater societal good, and different umbrellas of mental illness reflect different philosophical ideas about what constitutes a good life, what constitutes an ideal society, and how an individual ought to fit into his society.

The same can really be said for physical illness. Someone is physically ill if their bodily state poses significant hindrances to their performing tasks that their society expects all people to be capable of. The controversy with mental illness comes from the fact that other people's physical states are readily observable and measurable, while their mental states are not -- all we can observe is behavior, which we assume correlates reliably to mental states.

Obviously there's much room for debate, because every society is a complicated, heterogeneous, dynamic entity. What one person considers normal and standard may not be what others feel. So we clinicians tend to boil it down to three questions:

1. Do your mental activities distress you?
2. Does the way you conduct yourself tend to distress others you encounter in your day to day life?
3. Does this distress diminish your quality of life, relative to others around you?

If yes to two of these three, then you need help. Otherwise, you are not mentally ill; you are simply experiencing life in all its painful glory, with your particular cross[es] to bear. This is not to say you're not in need of a listening ear, or that you don't deserve to be taken seriously. It means that labeling you with a mental diagnosis and treating you for it is unlikely to have a net benefit for you, or to the mental health system.

I always use the example of a patient who hears voices. My first questions to this patient would be whether or not he finds this distressing, and whether or not his hearing of voices has caused him interpersonal problems with other people (causing him to lose friends or be unable to pay attention in class, for example). I would then probe for other odd mentations and behaviors, since hearing voices is a common symptom of several types of mental illness. But if the voices didn't seem to be causing the patient any problems, and he didn't exhibit any other mentations suggestive of a diagnosable disease, I'd withhold treatment. Granted I'd warn the patient to come back and see me if either of these conditions changed. I'd document the hearing of voices and the patient education on when to come back and see me. But the point is, hearing voices in and of itself is not enough to diagnose or treat anything. Just because I don't hear voices, and nor do most of my patients, does not put me in a position to deem that mental action something worth fixing. "If you hear voices, you're crazy" would be a value judgement on my part, and just bad medicine. I'm not saying this kind of thing doesn't happen all the time. But it's wrong.

Does society care about the mentally ill? Again, ask yourself, does society care about the physically disabled? In both cases, it's not a black and white thing, it's a matter of priorities. Affluent, stable societies can afford to turn their attention to making sure all public buildings have ramps, and all public school districts have a mental health professional on the payroll. Societies faced with shortages of basic resources or capable leadership, on the other hand, tend to take a more sink-or-swim attitude toward members who can't pull their own weight, even through no fault of their own. This of course opens the door to deeming all sorts of people expendable. Therefore, I say any healthy society works constantly to ensure the basic safety, security, and material wellbeing of all of its members, so that attention can be paid to helping less able members find a niche.
 
Even though at times we get a little out of control in dealing with mental illness, I wouldn't trade the US's way of handling it to any other country. Most people in the world don't even know what mental illness is! For example, in the Middle East if you have a mental disorder ranging anywhere from anxiety to schizophrenia you are classified under 1 word and the literal interpretation of that word is "crazy". I think more people should be grateful for the effort our country is making.
 
The point is that the notion of mental illness is based upon a concern for the greater societal good, and different umbrellas of mental illness reflect different philosophical ideas about what constitutes a good life, what constitutes an ideal society, and how an individual ought to fit into his society.

Which is a fancy way of saying "get well soon and start paying taxes again". Sorry but this idea that we are doing it for the greater social good is just laughable, it has absolutely nothing to do with that and everything to do with maintaining the status quo. It was only until recently that mentally ill people in hospitals were used as guinea pigs for all sorts, including testing done by the CIA. My point is WHY should anyone be expected to pull their weight in society? Who cares? Our society is broken and run by degenerate gangsters.

I could answer yes to all three of your questions but I am not mentally ill. I am having a natural reaction to a toxic environment and toxic people. The irony is that nearly everyone who is considered normal and sane by the standards of society is actually mentally ill.. give me 5 minutes with any person and I can demonstrate it to you. But just because these people can hold down a job, pay taxes, and shop at Tesco's means they are deemed sane.
 
Which is a fancy way of saying "get well soon and start paying taxes again". Sorry but this idea that we are doing it for the greater social good is just laughable, it has absolutely nothing to do with that and everything to do with maintaining the status quo. It was only until recently that mentally ill people in hospitals were used as guinea pigs for all sorts, including testing done by the CIA. My point is WHY should anyone be expected to pull their weight in society? Who cares? Our society is broken and run by degenerate gangsters

I see what you're saying. I regret using the phrase 'pull your weight', now that you point it out. All I really mean by getting by in society is no one having a legitimate reason for feeling threatened by how you behave on a consistent basis. That's open to interpretation granted -- I think we both would tend toward the more narrow interpretations of "threatening conduct", and I think most of present company doesn't feel threatened easily. I'm talking about abiding the unwritten, unspoken social code of law that (IMHO) really governs our lives, as opposed to that clownfoolery of men in suits making election promises.

I could answer yes to all three of your questions but I am not mentally ill. I am having a natural reaction to a toxic environment and toxic people. The irony is that nearly everyone who is considered normal and sane by the standards of society is actually mentally ill.. give me 5 minutes with any person and I can demonstrate it to you. But just because these people can hold down a job, pay taxes, and shop at Tesco's means they are deemed sane.

I agree with you. You're not mentally ill. If you are just fine with the way you are, and most people with reasonable faculties for assessing you don't feel threatened by the way you interect with them and the larger world in general, then what use have you for a diagnosis or a treatment?

Some people in society are content to play follow the leader and endure letdown after letdown and trap after trap. But if no one in their world sees a problem with it, and they're content to be miserable, then it's not a behavior that merits forced modification at the hands of the healthcare system and its allied mental health professionals.

Where I think we're missing each other is the locus of 'sane'. To me, the category of mentally ill or not is bestowed on people only by the healthcare system (and downstream, the courts). It's not 'out there', or a basic property of each human being. It's merely a label that helps the healthcare system sort patients into bins for targeting of treatment. How good the outcome is depends on what kinds of funding and what kind of patient load we're talking about.
 
mental illness is type casting i feel 85% of the time.

imagine im not talking about myself, but describing a daily occurrence for anyone.

while staying at an 'in patient treatment center' i became convinced i had schizoeffective after reacting in sobriety to suppressed memories. there was no consoling me so i was feed anti-psychotic drugs. after not being sure if what i remembered was true, and being so dociel on the neuroleptics, i went along with the schizoeffective thing, it sounded interesting and meant id get to be sedated all the time....eventually i began to play into the type cast, and described my hallucinations while on psychedelic drugs as ones id have while sober, whats the difference i thought?!?

eventually, i stopped the antipsychotics.

then years later became overwhelmed with the notion that something was coming to get me and my family(after a miscarriage and extreme stress), i felt like i was being tossed around my house, spinning into a vortex, all i felt i could do was ball up on the floor and scream - until i shut down into catatonia.

that went away, but trying anti psychotics again, i wound up with arms glued to my side, drooling with my mouth wide open, i could only walk it seemed on my tip-toes, my body was a steel rod for three days straight, i tried again and the same thing happened, plus my fore arm went numb for 8 months. and yes i tried again it didnt work.
going in the bath and smoking pot did...

i tried lithium at a less then psychologigal therapeutic dose, and klonopin in the epileptic dose range...then it seemed to make sense that i was bi-polar, because of course over time i became well, more clear and in contact with my surroundings.

then, i was finally able to kick by myself 6 mgs a day of klonopin and lithium, receive situational diagnosis which i have sense shed. this is now 15-16 years later. after all the chronic pain conditions too, those symptoms are all nearly entirely gone, why? i can see no other reason then when i recognized how i see how what i love about everything else is in me, and those parts of me others love are in themselves also-all is made of love - and all that not made the same does then disintegrate out-worldly from he or she who lives this way.
 
It is my opinion that mental illness is almost all hysterical as is "neurological" illness, meaning all steming from various traumas and being "converted" into somatic or psychological symptoms.
 
Which is a fancy way of saying "get well soon and start paying taxes again". Sorry but this idea that we are doing it for the greater social good is just laughable, it has absolutely nothing to do with that and everything to do with maintaining the status quo. It was only until recently that mentally ill people in hospitals were used as guinea pigs for all sorts, including testing done by the CIA. My point is WHY should anyone be expected to pull their weight in society? Who cares? Our society is broken and run by degenerate gangsters.

I could answer yes to all three of your questions but I am not mentally ill. I am having a natural reaction to a toxic environment and toxic people. The irony is that nearly everyone who is considered normal and sane by the standards of society is actually mentally ill.. give me 5 minutes with any person and I can demonstrate it to you. But just because these people can hold down a job, pay taxes, and shop at Tesco's means they are deemed sane.

Test me, test me!

I know this is not "mental illness", but with going deaf I'm experiencing two different pulls: one toward getting "better" and trying to hear again; and one saying that there's nothing wrong with me. Society would, of course, have me back on track with a normal life, but I can't help thinking that I want a little adventure, something to keep my brain actively changing and growing.

I can imagine this is the same way it works with those who have (non life-threatening) mental disabilities. Some simply give into what their doctors tell them, some avoid getting tested altogether. But when you discuss it, most people seem to be in the area between those two sides. They think about it and rule out helping themselves, then take the drugs, hoping it will make everything go away, quick and easy. Doctors are told to push drugs, psychiatrists are told to push drugs and are probably offered incentives when they effectively "cure" said mental disability.

Yes, we are hereby forever a part of society, whether we're deeply involved or out on a farm, raising animals for food. Some of us are just given more tax breaks than others. However, I think each one of us needs to step back and take a look before we simply say "oh, boo hoo, woe is me. I have (depression, anxiety, etc) and it takes over me and I can't control it!". I'm sorry, if you can't control the way your mind reveals itself, you need to stand back and learn about yourself more, not take medication.

I had a friend at work (53 years old) tell me that "her depression" controls her life and that it's purely a biological miscalculation in the brain. I can't imagine spending money for someone to tell me that these pills you pop into your mouth cure things.

Welcome to the scientific age, I guess.
 
The irony is that nearly everyone who is considered normal and sane by the standards of society is actually mentally ill.. give me 5 minutes with any person and I can demonstrate it to you.

what kind of bullshit is this? seems like a lot of people who bash mental health treatment (i'm coming from a uk perspective) have never actually experienced the mental health system. i guess i would say i'm quite experienced with it, and it's not just "here's a pill for you" and go on your way, talking therapies are just as important for recovery, but the demand far outweighs the supply (of psychologists).

i love how people who take theraputic drugs are often stigmatized as brainwashed sheeple, while those who take recreational drugs are somehow enlightened. fuck that shit, i take both, to feel better, just like everyone else.
 
I think each one of us needs to step back and take a look before we simply say "oh, boo hoo, woe is me. I have (depression, anxiety, etc) and it takes over me and I can't control it!". I'm sorry, if you can't control the way your mind reveals itself, you need to stand back and learn about yourself more, not take medication.

I had a friend at work (53 years old) tell me that "her depression" controls her life and that it's purely a biological miscalculation in the brain. I can't imagine spending money for someone to tell me that these pills you pop into your mouth cure things.

mental illness is diagnosed by a doctor or psychologist, not by the person. who are you to judge what your friend does? if it makes her feel better where's the problem? the stigma around mental illness means it is not exactly easy to decide to get help. and i don't think it's easy for someone who has not experienced a severe mental illness to understand quite how debilitating having your own mind fuck you over can be.

yes, some criticisms of the current system are valid, but just look at how far treatment has come in 100 years, from locking people up and viewing them as spectacles, to actually trying to help them get where they want to be.
 
what kind of bullshit is this? seems like a lot of people who bash mental health treatment (i'm coming from a uk perspective) have never actually experienced the mental health system. i guess i would say i'm quite experienced with it, and it's not just "here's a pill for you" and go on your way, talking therapies are just as important for recovery, but the demand far outweighs the supply (of psychologists).

i love how people who take theraputic drugs are often stigmatized as brainwashed sheeple, while those who take recreational drugs are somehow enlightened. fuck that shit, i take both, to feel better, just like everyone else.

It's not bullshit, it's true. Maybe you haven't had the same insights but I know many who share my position.. and once you get a glimpse of what sanity really is then it becomes apparent just how screwed up everyone really is. As for mental health treatment I stand by my position, hopefully I nor anyone I care about will ever have to endure that system. As for talking therapies.. rofl.. the only reason they succeed is because people put their faith/belief in it. If they had more self-awareness just talking to a loved one or proper friend would be much more effective.. although if they had more self-awareness they probably wouldn't need to in the first place.

Never said anything about recreational drugs/enlightened, not sure where you pulled that from. And i don't agree with it either.. you can get insights and revelations, but not enlightenment. Theraputic drugs have there place but they are WAY over prescribed.. it is based on a trillion dollar industry that does not care about actually curing you. Sorry but that is the truth.
 
I have my own, strong opinions both from dealing with psychiatric (and psychological) intervention personally and from academic study of psychopathology. But here, I think that I, and everyone, will gain greater insight from others' opinions on the matter.

ebola
 
It's not bullshit, it's true. Maybe you haven't had the same insights but I know many who share my position.. and once you get a glimpse of what sanity really is then it becomes apparent just how screwed up everyone really is. As for mental health treatment I stand by my position, hopefully I nor anyone I care about will ever have to endure that system. As for talking therapies.. rofl.. the only reason they succeed is because people put their faith/belief in it. If they had more self-awareness just talking to a loved one or proper friend would be much more effective.. although if they had more self-awareness they probably wouldn't need to in the first place.

well first off, have you studied mental illness in depth? do you have a copy of the DSM-IV to hand? even if so, no reputable medical professional would perform a reliable diagnosis based on 5 minutes interaction. and you're talking about "enduring" a system that you, nor anyone you know, appears to have any experience of.

i don't see your point about talking therapies, what if someone is not comfortable talking to a loved one or proper friend? why is CBT so much more effective than just talking to someone who is close to you?

drug companies cynically do care whether they are curing you, because if they weren't effective no one would pay for their pills.
 
I think some people should count themselves lucky they don't have a real mental illness and thus can't understand how bad it really can be, rather than assuming those who get treatment are just being "put in line to be made money off of".

I was able to ween myself off my medication, and learned to recognize the symptoms of when I wasn't acting normal. Then with self-discipline could maintain a consistently appropriate and thus self-beneficial frame of mind.

Not always possible with my many mental irregularities, and I do need pharmaceutical crutches from time to time, but it is what it is.

Drugs have been saving my life since I was an infant. Changing my diet won't make my asthma go away, social anxiety go away, obsessive-compulsiveness go away, mood swings go away, or periodic complete inability to focus go away. When it comes down to it, I choose a life where I can obtain my dreams and goals, and will take whatever reasonable steps necessary. The medication my psychiatrist prescribed me had side effects I didn't want to have, but it enabled me to graduate high school, so it served a purpose. Afterwards, I quit taking them. I've since found alternatives that work far better at at helping me achieve my goals.

However I do believe all the handicaps I suffer have greatly shaped me becoming who I am, and I wouldn't want it any other way. I just don't believe anyone should suffer them if they choose not to and have the option.
 
no reputable medical professional would perform a reliable diagnosis based on 5 minutes interaction.

Aye. Nor would they accept a new patient's self-diagnosis at face value, without confirming it with their own mental status exams, no matter what sources the patient read in order to arrive at their self-diagnosis.

drug companies cynically do care whether they are curing you, because if they weren't effective no one would pay for their pills.

You've each got half the story. Drug companies want their drug to treat your problem (i.e. make it bearable), but they don't want their drug to cure your problem permanently. That way you need to keep buying more of the drug. If it's a drug that requires any kind of monitoring (bloodwork, for example) when given long term, or is a script that can't just be called or faxed into a pharmacy (I'm not sure how this works in the UK), then doctors like it too, because then they get paid for more visits from this patient.

Psych diagnoses and psych treatments seem like good examples of this at first blush, but not really. Most psychiatric diagnoses require a lengthy and regular series of visits before the patient is functioning at their old baseline again. If there are drugs involved with the treatment, most have serious side effects, most require many fine dose adjustments, and some (lithium, for example) need close monitoring of labwork to avoid toxicity. The average psych patient is very high maintenance, and sadly, for many of them, the level of functionality they seek is ever elusive. This has less to do with drug companies and doctors' financial agendas, and more to do with the longitudinal nature of mental illness and the difficulty of changing ingrained thinking patterns, plus the liability of turning loose a mentally unstable patient too soon.

I think Western medicine has made great strides at treating people whose mentations keep them from living the normal lives they desire. That said, its approach to mental health is relatively young, and still has a long way to go. By the time I retire, I predict the discipline of psychiatry in the US will be wholly unrecognizable to me, from what I remember learning in med school.

As for mental health beyond Western medicine, I think it should be recognized that many cultures have indigenous folk psychologies and traditional community interventions for members who can't mentally cope. These run the gamut from commendably affirming, supportive, and rehabilitative, all the way to the unthinkably brutal and punitive. It depends on the society we're talking, the resources it's working with, the survival pressures it's under on a day to day basis, and of course, the nature of the mental illness and the effects it has on the person and the greater community. I don't think a sweeping blanket statement can be made. Both the "wholesome community of noble savages" and the "benighted natives who shun anyone different" are gross overgeneralizations.
 
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