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The Value of Tim Leary's Legacy

Quantum Perception

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He's been called a misguided saint. We all know that many do feel he ruined the legitimate research of psychedelics, yet his actions led us to be discussing this, for without him, we probably would have never found out about psychedelics.

So what are your thoughts on this? Was his life as Bruce Damer said "one that should never be repeated", or was it necessary and even beneficial in some way? Discuss.
 
Personally I feel he did far more damage than good and I also lean towards him being a government agent, probably on the CIA payroll. The hippie movement and all the free spirited people were quite a big threat to the establishment and it would be silly to assume that they would not be a target for infiltration. It happens with every group or movement, as history demonstrates. He made some good points but then just completely missed the mark on the final point and ended up misguiding many people.. which reminds me very much of David Icke the popular conspiracy theorist.

I certainly do not take him as some philosophical giant or genius. Even if he wasn't an agent he certainly was very egotistical and full of himself!
 
for without him, we probably would have never found out about psychedelics.
I'm honestly not sure how you came to this conclusion. What you're saying is demonstrably not true. We as a species have known about psychedelics and their potential for many thousands of years.


To be quite frank, this man dosen't even warrant as much as a footnote in the book that is the human relationship with psychedelics.
 
I'm honestly not sure how you came to this conclusion. What you're saying is demonstrably not true. We as a species have known about psychedelics and their potential for many thousands of years.


To be quite frank, this man doesn't even warrant as much as a footnote in the book that is the human relationship with psychedelics.

I was referring to lay people. Sure spiritual and academic circles definitely had knowledge of psychedelics. But in terms of average folk, they probably would have never heard of psychedelics if it wasn't for Tim's cheer-leading of its effects. Yet I don't see him as a government agent. His archive has some notes in which he complains about having a mid life crisis and not being the person he wanted to be. This is probably what lead him on his "crusade" to inform the world, the feeling of being the center of attention, rather then being a spy.

But I do feel that the government did infiltrate those hippie/alternative groups in some way for sure.

As for including him as a part of psychedelic history, whether or not you agree with his actions, you cant deny he has had a huge impact for better or worse. I mean he came up with set and setting!! If anything he deserves at the least an entire chapter. Now, whether that chapter is shown in a positive, negative, or neutral light is up for debate.
 
He was remarkable, but I agree that he did far more harm than good. He had already accomplished quite a lot in life when he started the whole "tune in, turn on, and drop out" campaign, and kids who haven't accomplished anything for themselves were following this advice blindly in many cases. He probably reacted very well to psychedelics, and his military training and years of formal education made him long for an escape like that, but it also strengthened his mind to the point where he wasn't in danger of going into a state of psychosis.

Any attempt to push these drugs on a massive scale is going to be flawed, especially when one takes such a cavalier approach to dropping out of mainstream life. Soon all these misguided head-cases with at best an 8th grade education are going to follow around the most colorful Pied Piper with the biggest platform, and no one told them that just because it's seeming to work for him doesn't mean it's going to work for everyone else.

He's an interesting cog in the machinery of psychedelics getting unleashed on the population, but he's no hero, saint, or anything else. He's got balls and some interesting sounding bullshit, which is all it takes to be any sorta politician in this country.
 
Sorry QP, but I still have to disagree with you. There were other psychedelic researchers working independantly of Leary and at approximately the same time. Before him as well. As one might say, the genie was already quite out the bottle before this man even became aware of psychedelics.

I wont even go into the whole spy stuff. Besides not being relevant, I have no information either way and I can't say I even care.

If anything he deserves at the least an entire chapter
I think we're reading different book, my friend. Perhaps I'll allow him a small spot in the index, though ;)
 
In terms of recent Western counter-cultural history, which psychedelics contributed a great deal to, you can't just resign him to a foot note, he was very influential. Maybe in terms of pure psychedelic knowledge he didn't contribute much, but he was one of the most influential, non-musician, leaders of his day.
 
^Who are some of the other popularizers who told people to take psychedelics? Besides Ken Kesey.
Terence Mckenna, John C. Lilly, R. Gordon Wasson(if I recall, this man inspired Leary), Alexander Shulgin. There are other as well, these are just a few that come to mind.
All of these people were doing research with psychedelics around the same time as Leary(I consider 10 years ± to be around the "same time").

Maybe in terms of pure psychedelic knowledge he didn't contribute much
This is more of what I meant. sorry if I was not clear. The hypothetical "book" I'm talking about is the entirety of human relationship with psychedelics and entheogens.
 
This hypothetical book would be about the history of psychedelics in the 20th century or recent history in general. lol

As for the people: Mckenna was in the shadow of Leary. Leary gave him a lot of attention when he called him one of the smartest people alive. Wasson never encouraged psychedelic use in mass or much at all. Lilly was doing his own thing with consciousness in general, not encouraging people to do it. Shulgin only rediscovered mdma, but he is not a proponent of its use or any other chemical.

So Mckenna is the only one in your list that actually recommended regular people to use psychedelics (by going out and giving talks and encouraging its use in general), and he got a lot of his fan base from Leary endorsing him. Therefore in the collective consciousness, Leary is probably the most prominent figure associated with psychedelics in general.
 
This hypothetical book would be about the history of psychedelics in the 20th century or recent history in general. lol
I will clarify, but let's not get too hung up on this detail, it was simply something fun that came to mind. What I actually meant would be a book spanning literally the entire history of human use of psychedelics. I imagine it would be several thousands of pages and quite heavy. What a read though! :D

So Mckenna is the only one in your list that actually recommended regular people to use psychedelics (by going out and giving talks and encouraging its use in general), and he got a lot of his fan base from Leary endorsing him. Therefore in the collective consciousness, Leary is probably the most prominent figure associated with psychedelics in general.
OP, I feel I haven't been as clear as I should have been. I don't care at all about people telling other people to use any drugs. I care about the people doing the research and learning about them. Whether this means doing work solo or with others is not important to me, and whether or not one is a public figure is of no relevance. The substance of the work is what matters.
And I don't personally happen to think Leary did much in these terms. He seemed more interested in his own agenda. Whatever that may have been I wont speculate.
I'm sorry for any confusion if I was not clear.
 
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^I agree that perhaps he was motivated mostly by his own agenda. I'm still on the fence whether or not his legacy was overall negative or positive. I still think that with out him most lay people would not know about psychedelics. But he ruined it's legitimate research. Such a conundrum. :?

BTW I would love to read a book that covered all of psychedelic use. But I'm sure there are books that have attempted such projects.
 
^I agree that perhaps he was motivated mostly by his own agenda. I'm still on the fence whether or not his legacy was overall negative or positive. I still think that with out him most lay people would not know about psychedelics. But he ruined it's legitimate research. Such a conundrum. :?

BTW I would love to read a book that covered all of psychedelic use. But I'm sure there are books that have attempted such projects.
It's really tough to say what would have been if this man hadn't been around. Someone else could've filled his shoes, or perhaps lay people would've discovered psychedelics another way. Maybe you're right and maybe Leary was just the person we needed at the time. Who knows?

Is it really such a bad thing that lay people not know much about psychedelics? I certainly believe that people with genuine interested in them should have access to them in a safe way. However, I also know that many people simply are not equipped to deal with a psychedelic experience. I consider myself quite familiar with psychedelics and dissociatives as a whole, having several hundred trips under my belt using dozens of individual compounds, and among my circle of friends and acquaintances there are very few who I feel are truly ready for similar experiences. This is one of the reasons I don't use them around most of my friends anymore, because it's akward and uncomfortable for me when people I know get all excited about wanting to try a drug, then I have to look like the jerk by explaining to them I don't feel comfortable with their level of experience. I hope I explained this right. I'm not trying to sound like a snob.

..I feel like I'm rambling. Sorry.

Maybe it's too easy to criticize him now, when things are already the way they are. Perhaps if I was alive in that time I would've been his biggest supporter.
 
Is it really such a bad thing that lay people not know much about psychedelics? I certainly believe that people with genuine interested in them should have access to them in a safe way. However, I also know that many people simply are not equipped to deal with a psychedelic experience.
in order for people to equip themselves, lay people need to know much about psychedelics in the first place ... the third sentence does not mesh with the first.

i think it's a bad thing people don't know much about psychedelics... if you see acid as something that tends to make people violent or psychotic, and you are shielded from the knowledge that used therapeutically with a guide they can turn almost any person from fearful to loving (in all contexts; ptsd etc), well that's just horrible for the world..

let's get leary's admittedly grandiose perspective (it is his thread after all)
NSFW:
Dr. Timothy Leary takes up his part of the tale of the tribe in a Mexican hut and brings his discovery to Harvard harmoniously and there begins the political battle. Black and white magic become publicly visible for a generation. Dr. Leary is a hero of American consciousness. He began as a sophisticated academician, he encountered discoveries in his field which confounded him and his own technology, he pursued his studies where attention commanded, he arrived beyond the boundaries of public knowledge. (One might hesitate to say, like Socrates, like Galileo?)

Poor Dr. Leary! Poor Earth!

Yet here we are in Science Fiction History, in the age of Hydrogen Bomb Apocalypse, the very Kali Yuga wherein man's stupidity so overwhelms the planet that ecological catastrophe begins to rehearse old tribe-tales of Karmaic retribution, Fire & Flood & Armageddon impending.

It would be natural (in fact deja vu) that the very technology stereotyping our consciousness & desensitizing our perceptions should throw up its own antidote, an antidote synthetic such as LSD synchronous with mythic tribal Soma & Peyote. Given such historic Comedy, who could emerge from Harvard technology but one and only Dr. Leary, a respectable human being, a worldly man faced with the task of a Messiah. Inevitable! Not merely because the whole field of mental psychology as a "science" had arrived at biochemistry anyway. It was inevitable because the whole professional civilized world, like Dr. Leary, was already faced with the Messianic task of accelerated evolution (i.e. psychosocial Revolution) including an alteration of human consciousness leading to the rapid mutation of social & economic forms. This staggering realization, psychedelic, i.e. consciousness-expanding & mind-manifesting, in itself, without the use of chemical catalysts, is now forced on all of us by images of our own unconscious rising from the streets of Chicago, where city teargas was dumped on Christ's very Cross in Lincoln Park AD 1968. The drains are backing up in the cities, smog noise and physiologic poison in food turns us to insect acts, overpopulation crazes the planet, our lakes corrupt, old riverways become dank fens, tanks enter Prague and Chicago streets simultaneous, Police State arrives in every major city, starvation wastes African provinces, Chinese genocide in Tibet mirrors American genocide in Vietnam. Alarm! Alarm! howls deep as any Biblic prophecy.

Ourselves caught in the giant machine are conditioned to its terms, only holy vision or technological catastrophe or revolution break "the mind-forg'd manacles." Given one by-product of the technology that might, as it were by feed-back, correct the berserk machine and liberate the inventor's mind from captivity by robot hypnosis, Dr. Leary had in LSD an invaluable civilized elixir. For, as Dr. Jiri Roubichek observed early in Prague ("Artificial Psychosis," 1958), "LSD inhibits conditioned reflexes." And this single phrase, for rational men, might be the key to the whole gnostic mystery of LSD and Dr. Leary's role as unique, alas solitary, courageous, humane & frank public Democratic Boddhisatva-teacher of the uses of LSD in America. For he took on himself the noble task of announcing the evidence of his senses despite the scary contumely of fellow academicians, the dispraising timorous irony of scientific "professionals," the stupidity meanness self-serving cowardice and hollow vanity of bureaucratic personnel from Harvard Yard to Mexico City to Washington, from the ignorant Sheriff's office in Dutchess County NY to the inner greedy Gordon-Liddy-haunted sanctums of the US Treasury Department in D.C. , our whole "establishment" of civilization that defends us from knowledge of our own unconscious by means of policemen's clubs, and would resist the liberation of our minds and bodies by any brutish means available including teargas, napalm & the Hydrogen Bomb.

Dr. Leary conducted himself fairly & equitably, given the extraordinary nature of his knowledge; it took an innocent courage to explore his own unconditioned consciousness, to take LSD and other chemicals often enough to balance praxis with explanation, and to attempt to wed the enormity of his experience to Reason. An heroic attempt to communicate clearly and openly through civilized technologic media to his fellow citizens, despite centuries of identity brainwash accelerated now to mass neurosis and Cold War Apocalypse Paranoia required of Dr. Leary the proverbial wisdom of serpent & harmlessness of dove. . . .

Dr. Leary was jailed for theory and practice of research on LSD & Cannabis. He took the burden of giving honest public report of LSD & Cannabis in terms more accurate & harmless than the faked science of the Government Party Hacks & therefore his imprisonment was an act of insult to Science, Liberty, Common Sense, Freedom, Academy, Philosophy, Medicine, Psychology as an Art, and Poetry as a tradition of human mind-vision.
 
^I meant people may not be equipped mentally, emotionally or spiritually for something like a ++++ experience. Contact with the drug itself isn't likely to change that.(not right away at least. Of course one needs to eventually take the drug.) Meditation or other spiritual practice is a good start though.
I didn't mean complete ignorace about the drug and it's effcts. Of course I believe the information and research about them should be available to all.


Seems like I just can't be clear about what I mean today :|
 
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Is it really such a bad thing that lay people not know much about psychedelics? I certainly believe that people with genuine interested in them should have access to them in a safe way.

How would people get into it? I can understand that psychedelics aren't for everyone, but the information should be available to the average (lay) person. So they can have the chance of coming to know if they are interested in them or not.
 
Yes, I agree that the information should be available. I have never said otherwise. Information is not bad or good, it's what one does with information that matters.

Let's just put it this way, the OP mentioned Tim Leary and others basically just "telling people to do psychedelics". I believe this is flat out wrong.

That is all. :)
 
I meant people may not be equipped mentally, emotionally or spiritually for something like a ++++ experience.
i'm not sure there is any way i could have prepared myself for my ++++ except simply having a philosophy of love and a drive to explore myself. i had used lsd 8 times previously, but not so spiritually.

with preparation with a guide who has been through it, i think many people could use a good old rebirth. i know it's not for everyone, but if you have problems, imo that's usually all the more reason to use lsd.

i'd like to point out, therapeutic use of lsd is absolutely nothing like recreational use. at all.
 
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