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The God of the Bible loves us and is for us not against us: discuss

Insightful journeyman but you cannot presume that I carelessly handed over my brains at the door marked Christianity. So many posts on this site have quite rightly cited the true horrors of 'Christianity gone awry' but that only highlight the frailty of man, not the frailty of the God they originally met with but who then got lost along the way. Most organised religion is complete bs but a personal relationship with Jesus can never be described as that. What caused you to jettison your faith, unless it wasn't a living faith but a church attendance thrust upon a child with no choice in the matter who then witnessed a load of crap along the way whilst also missing out on playing with his mates? Just musing. I'd certainly find that a hard one to swallow.
 
I agree about organised Religion, (whenever you see me use an R for the word I am talking about the organised version) but even teh Jesus story is fraught with misinterpretation. Like other messiahs, gurus and prophets he apparently said it is a personal journey or path - which would imply the 'Believe in me' part of the message may be an addition from 'other' sources.

The reasons I walked away from the church I grew up in and eventually all churches are but they began with the hypocrisy of 'Christians' and the idea of knowing things to be 'true' with zero evidence. Even as a 10yo that seemed a little too convenient for the guy up front collecting the tithes. :D

The other issue is, unless we go back to the Christianity that existed immediately after the Christ, we cannot say Christianity went awry in any way - it acted exactly as it was designed to. I'll probably get flack for this but the chief architect of such a Church was Paul/Josephus and if you look at how he structured the early Church, it is easy to see how it went the way it did. Lay down rules with the authority of God behind them and it will ALWAYS go badly for anyone who disagrees.
 
The God of the Old Testament is most definitely not a loving God..

Rape, murder, slavery, etc etc..

And Journeyman was spot on.. God created Adam and Eve knowing they would disobey him, condemning everyone else to be born with original sin.. He created man knowing that man would sin.. He knowingly condemned billions of people to eternal torture.

Jesus is iffy, too. He spoke in parables so not everyone would understand his message, again condemning people to hell. His lil speech about turning a household against each other was unnecessary and his message about people who love their family more than him are not worthy of heaven sounds like a bit of his dad coming through.. He also didn't seem to see much of a problem with slavery.

Here is just a few of many, many fucked up shit that Yahweh says / orders
NSFW:

Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

Kill Witches
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

Kill Homosexuals
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

Kill Fortunetellers
A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

Death for Hitting Dad
Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

Death for Cursing Parents
1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)
2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

Death for Adultery
If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

Death for Fornication
A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

Death to Followers of Other Religions
Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

Kill Nonbelievers
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Kill False Prophets
If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)
 
Cool notion. So in this case, how should we conceptualize the "good of the whole"; what is the character of a non-anthropocentric ethics, and what undergirds it?

ebola
 
protovack said:
Extended out, there is no reason to assume God favors man over the good of the whole.
Click to expand...

This would be the elementary flaw of God that most have the most probem with...that he can sacrifice the individual for the whole...and it can hurt so much (for the individual).
 
ForEverAfter said:
To those who don't understand the Old Testament, sure.
Click to expand...

Isn't that the problem though? Writing such stories that are so ambiguous and open to interpretation, to the point that these stories can mean almost anything... Or nothing. It seems a really odd and non beneficial way to promote an ethos.
 
^^ Yep, sure thing. But I don't think they were meant to promote an ethos. They were to give a people a mythos that let them think they were superior even though they'd just got their arses handed to them in Egypt.

There's also the encoding (IMO) of messages left by a people who saw a disaster coming and didn't want everything to be lost.
 
You can't expect people who wrote something 2000 years ago to understand the long-term consequences.
 
^That's true, but we now know. That is all that matters.
 
Most people fail to understand high art, that doesn't make it demonic.

It may appear demonic to those who misunderstand it, and that is unfortunate.

That's all I was saying.
 
Ransom itch said:
How, in today's world, does one defend the idea that the Creator of Heaven and earth as described in the Bible has a heart of compassion and love towards us His created ones? How would you argue for or against this idea?
Click to expand...
Ive read thru much of the bible, I was raised catholic, but in my adult years, I dont really know what to believe...I DO believe something greater than us created us and everything in this world, but not entirely sure its the god the bible talks about, as there are many things in the bible that seem to suggest 'God' is very violent, few verses encourage people to literally go out and kill other people, sometimes for something simple as blasphemy, one verse, it instructs people to kill ENTIRE towns if ONE person there has blasphemed God, kids included!

One other verse, a bunch of kids were making fun of this older bald guy, God got so mad, he sent 2 bears to kill all the kids...JUST for making jokes about this guy?!!

This verse though, makes me wonder what 'God' is truly about...

Matthew 10:34-36

34 "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did
not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn
" 'a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her motherinlaw—
 
Jesus was a rebel / terrorist.

He wanted change.
Notice how the quote is generational.
He wanted a new generation to rebel against the old ways.

Judaism was full of meaningless ceremonies.
At the time of Christ, they had lost the point and were just going through the motions.
Some of the laws in the OT needed updating / revising.

Jesus specifically addresses the passages in the OT that need reworking.

Funny thing is, now that the same thing has happened to Christianity, we need another Jesus.
 
fizzymk said:
Matthew 10:34-36

34 "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did
not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn
" 'a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her motherinlaw—
Click to expand...

Modern interpretation would be to say that Jesus will destroy all bonds besides that held with him. Jesus replaces the family, he brings discord in his righteous revolution to reinstate god.

Or it could be advocacy of family violence.

Dangerously ambiguous IMO, unworthy of being ascribed to.
 
I'm more inclined to believe the OT vs NT theory. Research Cathars. God of material world vs God of spirit world. General christian view on this differs to the point that God gave Satan rule over this world, so he can take it away. If and when he decides to do so.
 
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