Misc The GHB dichotomy

[Snafu in the Void]

I remember when I first read about GHB on erowid many many moons ago it sounded like the PERFECT drug for me...

The perfect alcohol replacement that's also euphoric and libido increasing?? Sign me up!!

Unfortunately GHB was not that, ever, for me. I've found there are generally 2 perspectives on the drug:
1. Very addictive euphoric, almost MDMA like, libido enhancing CNS depressant which is way better than alcohol.
2. An effective CNS depressant but zero euphoria, no libido and generally a more boring version of alcohol that can only be used as a sleep inducer/comedown tool.

Why is there seemingly 2 vastly different effect profile from the same drug? I surely can't believe there are 2 versions of GHB going around for decades. I know for a fact I had good GHB, and I didn't like it. Also gave me sleep paralysis after abusing it for a week or two (which oddly is used to treat but known to make it worse initially)

What's going on?

 

[CFC]

I think the problem you've really identified is that most people assume that their own experiences of anything are basically the same as everyone else's. But reality is far removed from that supposition, and I think as we age most begin to accept and appreciate that we all tend to feel and experience things in quite different ways.

The same is true for drugs. The more granular subjective experience of any drug varies wildly from person to person because we're all different - among other things, our genes all vary, our brains/CNS/PNS are wired differently and have differing sensitivity to stimuli, and our own unique experiences in life frame the feelings and sensations we do experience in often quite different and peculiar ways.

 

[Snafu in the Void]

I think the problem you've really identified is that most people assume that their own experiences of anything are basically the same as everyone else's. But reality is far removed from that supposition, and I think as we age most begin to accept and appreciate that we all tend to feel and experience things in quite different ways.

The same is true for drugs. The more granular subjective experience of any drug varies wildly from person to person because we're all different - among other things, our genes all vary, our brains/CNS/PNS are wired differently and have differing sensitivity to stimuli, and our own unique experiences in life frame the feelings and sensations we do experience in often quite different and peculiar ways.

Totally agree.

It's just a bit weird to me, if there is one drug ever that I pointed to and said it was a huge disappointment based on reports it would be GHB. Every other drug I try that I don't like it's "well I can see how they described it that way, I just didn't like it". I have no idea why people describe GHB as libido enhancing. It did about as much as alcohol does for me - nothing and if anything slightly negative. Normally I'd keep such an opinion to myself but I know I'm not alone on this specific matter. I'm assuming it's a genetic issue?

 

[CFC]

Totally agree.

It's just a bit weird to me, if there is one drug ever that I pointed to and said it was a huge disappointment based on reports it would be GHB. Every other drug I try that I don't like it's "well I can see how they described it that way, I just didn't like it". I have no idea why people describe GHB as libido enhancing. It did about as much as alcohol does for me - nothing and if anything slightly negative.

The issue, I think, is that people have a tendency to couch what should be more general and nuanced descriptions of the effects of drugs in terms defined by their own personal subjective experience of said drug. This can then cause confusion when an experience most others seem to talk about doesn't manifest.

Case in point: my experience of GHB is much like your own, although I do enjoy it more than alcohol. But having said that, I've never experienced 'euphoria' from any drug ever, and likely never will. So if I started to talk about drugs only in terms familiar to my own experience, I'm not gonna make a lot of sense to most other folks.

BTW GHB is a total libido killer to me. Which kinda makes sense for me, since it's always adrenergic stuff that gets me going. Stressed as fuck and gotta write an essay in 5 hours? Let me just wank 14 times first....

 

[Snafu in the Void]

I've never experienced 'euphoria' from any drug ever, and likely never will.

........what?

dude you just made me really sad for some reason?

 

[CFC]

........what?

dude you just made me really sad for some reason?

Lol, don't feel sad, I couldn't care less about it. If anything I'm kinda pleased, since it's one less reason to become insanely addicted to something

 

[G_Chem]

........what?

dude you just made me really sad for some reason?

I find this really surprising too. Do you feel “good” off drugs at least? If not for the euphoria why else take drugs??? Lol

Most all drugs I take give me some level of euphoria, to me that’s like a baseline “must have” for a drug to be good to me.

I’d say cocaine is the only drug that I’ll keep using long past the euphoric stage and in to the dysphoric stage.

-GC

 

[Snafu in the Void]

I find this really surprising too. Do you feel “good” off drugs at least? If not for the euphoria why else take drugs??? Lol

Yeah, even if a drug isn't directly euphoric I still achieve some euphoria by taking it... which is why I take it.

Or do we have different definitions of euphoria as CFC? I certainly use the word liberally to describe any positive feeling from any drug....

 

[CFC]

I find this really surprising too. Do you feel “good” off drugs at least? If not for the euphoria why else take drugs??? Lol

Most all drugs I take give me some level of euphoria, to me that’s like a baseline “must have” for a drug to be good to me.

I’d say cocaine is the only drug that I’ll keep using long past the euphoric stage and in to the dysphoric stage.

-GC

The drugs I like can feel very nice indeed, yes. But not 'euphoric' in the way you'll see most commonly describe the experience. No tingles, no rush, no acutely overwhelming sensations or anything like that at all.

I've obviously given this some thought over the years. I was born physically hypersensitive (as in, all my natural senses can be sometimes painfully acute, and it took me most of my childhood to learn to control my reaction to them), and it's a possibility that it's a little harder to turn up the volume in parts of the CNS with drugs for those of us like that than for most others.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I don’t really feel euphoria any more from any drug. I enjoy them and have fun but actual euphoria nope. The last time I did was the first time I took meth after a four year total drug break. That was mind-blowingly euphoric (16 hours of self-stimulation resulting). But thereafter each go with meth was fun but meh as far as euphoria no matter how many months I took off. LSD gives whole body euphoria but only with a break more than 12 months between hits. I figure my circuits are just blown out either by the drugs over 30 years or by taking anti-psychotics for too long.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I remember when I first read about GHB on erowid many many moons ago it sounded like the PERFECT drug for me...

The perfect alcohol replacement that's also euphoric and libido increasing?? Sign me up!!

Unfortunately GHB was not that, ever, for me. I've found there are generally 2 perspectives on the drug:
1. Very addictive euphoric, almost MDMA like, libido enhancing CNS depressant which is way better than alcohol.
2. An effective CNS depressant but zero euphoria, no libido and generally a more boring version of alcohol that can only be used as a sleep inducer/comedown tool.

Why is there seemingly 2 vastly different effect profile from the same drug? I surely can't believe there are 2 versions of GHB going around for decades. I know for a fact I had good GHB, and I didn't like it. Also gave me sleep paralysis after abusing it for a week or two (which oddly is used to treat but known to make it worse initially)

What's going on?

Sometimes here you get GHB but sometimes I think it is actually GBL. I wonder whether there is a difference in the experience. Although GBL is supposed to convert almost immediately to GHB in the body.

 

[Snafu in the Void]

Sometimes here you get GHB but sometimes I think it is actually GBL. I wonder whether there is a difference in the experience. Although GBL is supposed to convert almost immediately to GHB in the body.

I've wondered if there was a difference too, yet doubt any significant difference as I describe.

I think people react to GHB differently.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I've wondered if there was a difference too, yet doubt any significant difference as I describe.

I think people react to GHB differently.

Isn’t it the same with most drugs. Some love ‘em. Some can take or leave ‘em. I can’t stand alcohol for example. Totally leaves me cold and I regret even taking a sip most times. Same with smack. But speedy things...I’m a fucking vacuum cleaner.

 

[Snafu in the Void]

Isn’t it the same with most drugs. Some love ‘em. Some can take or leave ‘em. I can’t stand alcohol for example. Totally leaves me cold and I regret even taking a sip most times. Same with smack. But speedy things...I’m a fucking vacuum cleaner.

totally 100%

yet still I find the descriptions of GHB to be wildly different from person to person more than any other drug by far

 

[negrogesic]

Sometimes here you get GHB but sometimes I think it is actually GBL. I wonder whether there is a difference in the experience. Although GBL is supposed to convert almost immediately to GHB in the body.

GBL is huge in Australia and is sold as GHB in significant volume.

GHB is far cleaner and more stimulating feeling than GBL.GBL is like GHB and a shot of gin with just a dash of ether.

 

[Jabberwocky]

GBL is huge in Australia and is sold as GHB in significant volume.

GHB is far cleaner and more stimulating feeling than GBL.GBL is like GHB and a shot of gin with just a dash of ether.

Is the safety profile the same for the two of them? I get offered it all the time, but I am very hesitant to sip random liquids while sitting in brothels with a wallet full of cash and a head full of meth.

 

[negrogesic]

Is the safety profile the same for the two of them? I get offered it all the time, but I am very hesitant to sip random liquids while sitting in brothels with a wallet full of cash and a head full of meth.

Yes they are somewhat similar risk wise. It is somewhat more dangerous due to the heavier sedation and extended duration but not significantly more dangerous. It does have more side-effects than GHB (nausea etc) and feels dirtier. Not particularly risky at low doses and mixes ok with meth though it increases the body load. Its a pretty good sexual drug but is sometimes unreliable in its effects. The increased disinhibition might spawn some bizarre or regrettable situations (although you seem like you're *not a likely vicitim of regret in this arena).

 

[Jabberwocky]

Yes they are somewhat similar risk wise. It is somewhat more dangerous due to the heavier sedation and extended duration but not significantly more dangerous. It does have more side-effects than GHB (nausea etc) and feels dirtier. Not particularly risky at low doses and mixes ok with meth though it increases the body load. Its a pretty good sexual drug but is sometimes unreliable in its effects. The increased disinhibition might spawn some bizarre or regrettable situations (although you seem like you're a very un-likely vicitim of regret in this arena).

Thanks. Fixed what I think you meant. Correct.

 

[negrogesic]

Yeah i just fixed it myself

*Fortunately you didn't correct "vicitim" because that was as intended