The futility of communication?

[being]

Hi!

This posts idea might seem somewhat paradoxical, but bear with me. ^__^

I used to be moderately active on this and another forum (a Buddhist one). By being active, I mean I really tried to read and understand a lot of posts on P&S and answer, if I thought I had anything to share. I had another account, before I created 'being'.
But lately I've kinda given up on both (reading & answering), since all this activity has changed my view greatly. Nowadays I feel, that most of the time people are mostly just interested in expressing their own ideas and understandings. Even if someone is clearly hinting otherwise. I feel as if most of the time the posts are egotistically motivated. "I'm gonna tell them, what's right/how it's done" or "I'm gonna prove that he's wrong (to feel better about myself)".

So it feels like there's a lot of people, who think they know and want to share their great understandings, but no-one actually listening. A one-sided communication.

And this is only a part of it.

The another thing is... even if people read other peoples posts, there's gonna be as many perceptions of the post as there are readers. We're all conditioned differently, so we will also understand same sentences differently.
And often times the one who's writing the post, lacks the best ability to put his/her own thoughts into the most perfect words. I have experienced this in communication often. For example I tried to explain an interesting insight I had, but it took me like half an hour (on msn) to get my thought across to my friend, because I kept using words, which made him non-receptive. But using the same words another friend got what I mean just instantly. It's not because one of the friends would have been dumber or something. It was just different conditioning.


And the reason why I am discouraged from reading other peoples posts as much as before, is maybe that I have on some level realized the fact, that intellectualizing (describing the world on the level of thoughts), is just another form of seeking, which will never get me, what I am seeking for, since there is nothing to get. ^_^

So maybe I feel as if I have kind of figured it out and there's nothing which could be read or heard that would somehow help me immensely?


But I still enjoy a good conversation for some reason (one with an open-minded partner) .


The reason I am writing this, is that I am really interested if this is something, which other people have thought about and felt the same way towards communication.

It could very well be, that this is just my very subjective experience or view.

 

[ColtDan]

its a normal part of what some people are like... waiting to speak, not listening, self centered, etc. not giving a shit about other peoples views etc and not bothering to try and understand them. trying to ram their opinions into other people. alot of people only give a shit about themselves

 

[being]

its a normal part of what some people are like... waiting to speak, not listening, self centered, etc. not giving a shit about other peoples views etc and not bothering to try and understand them. trying to ram their opinions into other people. alot of people only give a shit about themselves

I can understand how my post could have made you write this, but this is also a good example of what I was talking about in my first post.

The stuff you are describing is not something I am really worried about or what I meant to discuss with my OP.

I do not want to make this into a 'me vs them' thread, where I claim myself to be the saint, who always listens to everyone etc. And where other people can come in and say 'yeah, fucking self-centered bricks, they never listen'. This is just another form of this egotistical behavior I was describing before. Just another angle of the ego finding something to bash others about to make itself feel better.
This was totally NOT the intention of the OP. -__-

 

[Dedbeet]

It's more futile than you think, as thinking is meaning-making.

Which is fine, lotsa fun, well worthwhile IMO.

"But" -- (the following is a biblical quotation)...

The lessons that I'm giving you on the power of the blood came direct from the heart of God. God let me see the blood as a mighty river flowing.

And as it flowed from God's heart across the arena of human experience, there was a great big barrier in the way, a barrier of sin.

But the mighty river broke loose from heaven when Jesus died.

This body here is a space-time location.

Thus, it isn't located anywhere.

It can't both have a location, and be a location.

It's "had" location is imaginary, a matter of relationality and reference in the
ever-changing sphere of spacio-temporality.

It's actual location isn't located anywhere, because space-time isn't located
anywhere.

If you want to find me, and spacio-temporality happens to co-incide, you
probably will.

If it doesn't, you won't -- for example, I might be five minutes behind you, and
we're not in the same sphere at all.

As like now, since I wrote this message at least five minutes ago by the time
you're reading it.

Does it make more sense now why the human psyche feels alone?

Except for the fact of one-ness with space-time, beyond the psyche.

It's carrying you -- you don't have to do a thing, except whatever you happen to do.

And the dam broke and that mighty river of the blood of Jesus and the life of Jesus flowed and it swept away the barrier. So that was reconciliation by the blood.

So that was the first important thing that swept away the barrier between God and man.

Peace...

 

[Changed]

Zen tells us that words are insufficient.


In 'my' experience, human beings are severely limited by language. Thinking about experiences in my life where non-language communication > language-based communication: mushroom trips in large groups where positive energy is shared, without having to speak a word; making love to someone else in the dark; engaging in group sports, where intuition and spontaneous reaction separate the wheat from the chaff, etc...

More personally: those videos you sent me from Jeff Foster and Adyashanti really showed me where I was going wrong in my thinking... Their message was: 'not perceiving through the lens of ego' -> happiness/peace/sanity --> all is one ---> nature is emptiness ----> all is insubstantial -----> life and everything in it is a game.

Once you've come to certain realizations, there is no need for verbal communication, really. Educating others through your actions rather than words will have infinitely more impact in the long run...

 

[superelephant]

Hi!

This posts idea might seem somewhat paradoxical, but bear with me. ^__^

I used to be moderately active on this and another forum (a Buddhist one). By being active, I mean I really tried to read and understand a lot of posts on P&S and answer, if I thought I had anything to share. I had another account, before I created 'being'.
But lately I've kinda given up on both (reading & answering), since all this activity has changed my view greatly. Nowadays I feel, that most of the time people are mostly just interested in expressing their own ideas and understandings. Even if someone is clearly hinting otherwise. I feel as if most of the time the posts are egotistically motivated. "I'm gonna tell them, what's right/how it's done" or "I'm gonna prove that he's wrong (to feel better about myself)". So it feels like there's a lot of people, who think they know and want to share their great understandings, but no-one actually listening. A one-sided communication.

I feel that this is a good thing.

..a multitude of views on any particular subject doesn't really help someone who isn't entirely a layman on said subject, but the wealth of knowledge presented can really help someone with no general understanding at all formulate their own beliefs, and do so in an informed manner.

And this is only a part of it.

The another thing is... even if people read other peoples posts, there's gonna be as many perceptions of the post as there are readers. We're all conditioned differently, so we will also understand same sentences differently.
And often times the one who's writing the post, lacks the best ability to put his/her own thoughts into the most perfect words. I have experienced this in communication often. For example I tried to explain an interesting insight I had, but it took me like half an hour (on msn) to get my thought across to my friend, because I kept using words, which made him non-receptive. But using the same words another friend got what I mean just instantly. It's not because one of the friends would have been dumber or something. It was just different conditioning.

This is why it's optimal for everyone to post their own understanding, it covers the most ground that way.

And the reason why I am discouraged from reading other peoples posts as much as before, is maybe that I have on some level realized the fact, that intellectualizing (describing the world on the level of thoughts), is just another form of seeking, which will never get me, what I am seeking for, since there is nothing to get. ^_^

So maybe I feel as if I have kind of figured it out and there's nothing which could be read or heard that would somehow help me immensely?

This is what is realized after reading all of those different understandings, which, imo, is a good thing.

The reason I am writing this, is that I am really interested if this is something, which other people have thought about and felt the same way towards communication.

I have, I think communication is only as useful as throughly explaining it's own insufficiency, but that is a use, and a worthwhile one at that.

 

[superelephant]

It's more futile than you think, as thinking is meaning-making.

Which is fine, lotsa fun, well worthwhile IMO.

"But" -- (the following is a biblical quotation)...



This body here is a space-time location.

Thus, it isn't located anywhere.

It can't both have a location, and be a location.

It's "had" location is imaginary, a matter of relationality and reference in the
ever-changing sphere of spacio-temporality.

It's actual location isn't located anywhere, because space-time isn't located
anywhere.

If you want to find me, and spacio-temporality happens to co-incide, you
probably will.

If it doesn't, you won't -- for example, I might be five minutes behind you, and
we're not in the same sphere at all.

As like now, since I wrote this message at least five minutes ago by the time
you're reading it.

Does it make more sense now why the human psyche feels alone?

Except for the fact of one-ness with space-time, beyond the psyche.

It's carrying you -- you don't have to do a thing, except whatever you happen to do.



Peace...

Great post.

 

[Jabberwocky]

this is just ridiculously ironic.

without effective communication humanity would not have got so far. those capable of listening to, internalising and understanding the views of those who went before put themselves in a position to 'see further by standing upon the shoulders of giants.'

i think a lot of it comes down to intelligence. if someone is too stupid to realise they can learn from other people they wont listen to them or respect their views. though obviously there are intelligent people who're just very arrogant...

 

[Raw Evil]

Any communication is necessarily a crude approximation of the thoughts which it represents. We can't telepathically share ideas, so talking is the next best thing. But however you encode your thoughts - whether English or Hebrew or Mandarin - the idea that your words bring about in the minds of others will never be the same as the idea you had, even if it is equivalent.

Such is the nature of serialization.

 

[B9]

Being strikes me as a gentle soul which is nice - I have nothing to push, I like a good view & laughing - why so serious ?


This post was brought to you by the astral twins Mild Confusion & Good Intention who can be found in a unnamed constellation in a distant galaxy

 

[sssssssssss]

u justify ur existence through other's reactions to self.

basically u r u because u r everything but urself which logically doesnt make sence
you absorb everything around you and your environment and release what you do not understand (what you are not)

just like red is red because it absorbs every color except for red
counsiousness is a refracted ray absorbing its surroundings, while emitting what it does not understand because counsiousness that does understand it is attracted to what it already knows. which is why you percieve things how you want to

i also feel like everything works in 4s
4 states of matter
4 steps in conciousness.. imo, you feel with your body, you find your voice to gain understanding, you then gain understanding, then you share it.
where a solid is condensed and ignorant of its surroundings; its stubborn and uncreative
it endures struggles and becomes a liquid so it can flow through its environment generating more ideas, can be a little curious but still weighted down.
it endures more struggles and becomes and gas and floats through its liquid state to see above itself, gaining more understanding. it is faster and adapts much easier but it can become arrogant and satisfied, thinking that it is top shit
but if enough struggling is done you can eliminate all strugles, you can rip away from your electrons making you a positive ion. you can go whever you are needed and defy gravity. you are the essence of the universe and all knowing as you can oversee it all ---> plasma.

just like intuition starts with a feeling, that deserves a reaction
you learn from reacting to your feelings as you share it with the world around you and recieve attention
you then understand and develop a system of solutions to fit your feelings and can become convinced that your surroundings are satisfied
but can you eventually know the answer to everything? is death the ultimate struggle?

 

[Pythagoras]

this is just ridiculously ironic.

without effective communication humanity would not have got so far. those capable of listening to, internalising and understanding the views of those who went before put themselves in a position to 'see further by standing upon the shoulders of giants.'

i think a lot of it comes down to intelligence. if someone is too stupid to realise they can learn from other people they wont listen to them or respect their views. though obviously there are intelligent people who're just very arrogant...

This

Perhaps you are looking for a discussion that is more dialogical than dialectical (Thesis v.s. Antithesis = Synthesis)

The tool of communication, here a turn by turn written interaction, open to all may not be the best suited for what you are seeking.

Just a thought.

 

[malakaix]

Once you've come to certain realizations, there is no need for verbal communication, really. Educating others through your actions rather than words will have infinitely more impact in the long run...

I've come to understand this more in recent times.

 

[Changed]

I've come to understand this more in recent times.

Right.

And it seems that people desperately cling to their ability to communicate (verbally or non-verbally), simply in order to reinforce that egoic-state. If you take away 'a person's' ability to communicate, you isolate them from their 'peers,' and force them to be alone with themselves-- many times people simply can't be in solitude with themselves-- they have to be chattering away, even if everything they are saying is substance-less (or even a strict repetition of what they've already talked about in the past).

On the other hand, during the few times that I've done a self-imposed period of silence, I felt amazingly invigorated and empowered-- not by the silence or absence of my voice, but by the sheer volume of noises created by the 'outside universe.' Birds chirping, tree leaves rustling in the wind, cars passing by, other people talking in the street, water lapping on the docks, etc...

Sometimes we just need to shut-up and listen.