The desire to continue psychedelic exploring, after being awakened?

[Octarine]

Quite a simple question I guess.. If it were simple I wouldn't be asking I suppose.
But here it is: once one has been awakened to the presence of soul, and is able to perceive through this level...
Is there a point to indulging anymore?

This isn't a question I'm looking for a quick yes/no answer to, but to spark a discussion weighing both sides.
One could say, there is always work to do...
And another could say, you are awakened, so this is where the journey begins.. Therefor a spiritual "boost" isn't necessary.

I do not have an opinion on this, but would like to hear your thoughts for clarity.

Love and light to all

 

[Psyduck]

There is a very famous allegory in the history of philosophy, namely Plato Cave =>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_Cave

The basic idea is that prisoners in the cave (living in shadow, untruth, ignorance) escaped to the surface (light, truth, enlightenment). However, Plato is very subtle. In the last part of the allegory he spoke of the "return to the cave." This means, that "higher truths" in themselves are not an end-goal, but the goal is to RETURN back to the "ordinary" world with new eyes.

The "problem" with many psychedelic users is that they always want to transgress their experiences further and further. They proclaim to be enlightened and to "stand above the normal people," however in reality their desires for more and more intense experiences is a futile search (a hedonistic pursuit disguised as a search for enlightenment).

To summarize my point: taking psychedelics is fine, but if you cannot integrate those experiences again into your life, then you have a problem. The psychedelic experience eventually loses its value, and it becomes a mere transgression/escapism.

As a rule, to psychedelics users, I would say: the day after the experience, write down on a paper all the "enlightened truths" you had (love, joy, light, compassion, unity with everything) and check two weeks later whether you actually applied these experiences in your live (i.e. spreading love/compassion to other people).

 

[Octarine]

Ahh

Thank you so much, that resonates well. Before i had quite the "problem" you speak of, years ago.. Which led to me becoming dysfunctional; I didn't understand integration.

Now I am at a point where I dwell on this surface you mentioned,
and am worried about doing more harm than good, for example dosing more LSD, though i believe my eyes are already open.

I suppose it's individual, but I was looking for generalities and the examples you gave were great.
Terence McKenna for example seemed to have no interest in halting psychedelic use,
Yet he seemed to integrate rather quickly.. Though some people see him as a kook..

How do you make the distinction from escapism to a proper and useful session?
Guess that's instinct and evaluation of integration from past experience.

Appreciate you clarifying, helps a ton.
Feel free to drop more related knowledge

 

[EliCash]

There is a very famous allegory in the history of philosophy, namely Plato Cave =>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_Cave

The basic idea is that prisoners in the cave (living in shadow, untruth, ignorance) escaped to the surface (light, truth, enlightenment). However, Plato is very subtle. In the last part of the allegory he spoke of the "return to the cave." This means, that "higher truths" in themselves are not an end-goal, but the goal is to RETURN back to the "ordinary" world with new eyes.

The "problem" with many psychedelic users is that they always want to transgress their experiences further and further. They proclaim to be enlightened and to "stand above the normal people," however in reality their desires for more and more intense experiences is a futile search (a hedonistic pursuit disguised as a search for enlightenment).

To summarize my point: taking psychedelics is fine, but if you cannot integrate those experiences again into your life, then you have a problem. The psychedelic experience eventually loses its value, and it becomes a mere transgression/escapism.

As a rule, to psychedelics users, I would say: the day after the experience, write down on a paper all the "enlightened truths" you had (love, joy, light, compassion, unity with everything) and check two weeks later whether you actually applied these experiences in your live (i.e. spreading love/compassion to other people).

Platos implementation of the Allegory of the Cave has always put me off, it's a beautiful metaphor, but I can't stand the arrogance of deeming himself and his friends the only people who know the shadows are actually shadows and dismissing all others as cave dwelling idiots.

However, you just gave me an idea... the Allegory of the Cave as a metaphor for the psychedelic experience. One where the cave IS reality, the journey to the surface constitutes a psychedelic trip where one learns about fundamental truths and the workings of reality, and the return to the cave represents the difficulties of integrating what one has learned from their journey/trip.

 

[Psyduck]

However, you just gave me an idea... the Allegory of the Cave as a metaphor for the psychedelic experience. One where the cave IS reality, the journey to the surface constitutes a psychedelic trip where one learns about fundamental truths and the workings of reality, and the return to the cave represents the difficulties of integrating what one has learned from their journey/trip.

Ow yes, of course, that was exactly what I was implying, maybe I could have put it more clearly.

 

[EliCash]

Ow yes, of course, that was exactly what I was implying, maybe I could have put it more clearly.

I first read the Allegory of the Cave in a political philosophy class so I always looked at it in the context of Republic(which illustrates both brilliance but comes to the idiotic conclusion that a "Timocracy" is the ideal form of government), but I always loved the extended metaphor from a literary perspective. I was never able to connect it to my experiences in that way before though, before you brought it up there I never contemplated it outside of a political context.

 

[-=SS=-]

Well my first thoughts are, have you really awakened? It gets thrown around a lot these days, the term awakened.. and not to attack you personally but I've yet to come across a person who has clearly awakened, like "shit, this guy has mystery in his presence" (like real, mind challenging presence). I think psychedelics give you a new perspective but I'm not convinced they take you all the way to being awakened.

I think you answered your own question anyway and were really just fishing for a new slant, to get you thinking. Maybe that's not what you were thinking consciously when you wrote your post, but a deeper part of you is not satisfied with your own answers (hence the fishing). Because.. if you were awakened you would not be even considering in "indulging".. there would be no point.. waste of energy. Besides, this is just a picture show and you would know that for sure.. so there would be little desire for wanting to see a slightly more pretty psychedelic illusion. Awakened people aren't really curious about picture shows.. which includes real life.

 

[Foreigner]

Everyone is going to have a slightly different take on what awakening is. My understanding of it is that it's a breakthrough experience where there is not only a period of heightened clarity but also an alteration of the very format of perception itself. There is a precise overview of existence that feels holistic and intrinsic to everything. Sometimes it's temporary and sometimes it remains, but it's felt on all levels. It's not just mental masturbation but it's also an embodied experience, in your very presence.

I'm not sure if there really is an ultimate and supreme awakening. How much more into oneness can you possibly get? You can take as many steps back out of this reality as you think you can, but ultimately you're still in it. Any backroom you think you're stepping into is just another step forward into maya. So what are you really "awakening" from, or into? The very concept is imaginary. It implies you went from there, to here. That's duality. There's no here or there within a fixed point like present consciousness. Future and past are imagination, so where do you think you're going when you "wake up"?

As for psychedelics... they give you a lot of insight into this, but the awakenings are never ending. You take the trip, feel like you're on another plane of existence, and then you come down. Things are learned, you might feel a bit more evolved. Maybe you really integrate some of those insights and take them with you, or maybe you forget. Ultimately, it feels like there's always more... "If only I could just be in that state of mind again to get another piece of the puzzle." That's the lure.

There is no awakening. You're already awake. Psychedelics or not, life is exploring the nature of awakeness. You can't enhance something that is ubiquitously inherent. Anyone who is telling you that you need to do X, Y, Z to awaken, or to awaken "more", is trying to sell you something. There's nothing that needs to be done - no ladder to climb. Nothing is wrong.

 

[Octarine]

First off... Thank you all for the responses, didn't expect this haha.

I agree with majority of the posts here, and think Foreigner hit home the best, but ill clarify a bit.. I think awakening is thrown around loosely, so sorry if I struck a cord with someone. I don't feel the need to "prove" my awakening if that makes sense.. But I understand the importance of dialogue.
I notice a large dissolution of ego which hasn't gone away.. And of course the jazz that this is an illusion, one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively,etc.

Yes I was fishing I suppose, and getting responses helped me answer my own question. What I was fishing for, was a sense of resonance. The "lure" you mention used to be very present, but that fire has been stomped out.
At the time I wrote the post, I had a slight sense of awe in the beauty; "wow, this is really it? I've always been here.."
Ended up giving away the last dose, felt someone else could benefit more.

I've been in this perspective before, years ago, but it was cut short as I was "too excited about life".. Who I was at the time changed completely, freaking family members out, and eventually lead to being involuntarily admitted and put on stabilisers..
Needless to say that didn't work, and I started experimenting again a year after.. Integration never crossed my mind when younger, but I know it is fundamental, in order to keep "riding the wave" and not returning to the cave

Ram dass said it well by saying "psychedelics may be a miracle(to consciousness), but not the only one". (Directed at Foreigner)
After collecting all my psych experiences, I just feel it has "awakened" the "spirit" again and I cannot flip the switch off.
The best way I can attempt to describe it in words, is this is the time where collectively the experiences have lead up to a critical mass. A breakthrough if you will.. Where non-ordinary states of mind are accessible, perhaps not full blown psychedelia, but as a reference. And I am working on finding models to communicate better, so I don't sound like a loon..

Indulging seems pointless at the moment, as the awareness I was searching for with LSD and the like has transferred into daily life. Life itself is the high, smallest moments such as a snowfall will enthral me with joy and appreciation of being alive.

Where do I think I was going or am..? Well.. Nowhere I suppose haha it's just really reminded me to identify the past/future as concepts, and knowing that all is now. I see great value in all your responses, and I hope I didn't confuse things more..?

Overall, individually it helps me a great deal to have these discussions, as it gives one clarity in the sense of "I'm not nuts, this is reality"
Please, if I am not being clear, point it out. Relaying it out through dialogue adds tremendous validity. The point of me even stretching this out, is for those who are maybe on the way to awakening to feel some resonance.

Very pleased with the efforts you all have gone to, to respond truthfully. Feel free to add, you're only helping.

Just to keep the boat rolling...
It seems as if the struggle with man(humans) is that the "light" or "awakening" hasn't reached the masses on a large scale.. Similar to the summer of love and those events.

What are your thoughts on how to speed up this change?
Do we even need to try to speed it up?
What possibilities do you find realistic to turning on the switch? (Example: natural disasters causing the surrounding area to put away greed and focus on love)
And finally.. Maybe list a moment, when without the aid of a psychedelic, you were "awakened" to a new paradigm which was unexpected.

Peace and love.

 

[EliCash]

First off... Thank you all for the responses, didn't expect this haha.

I agree with majority of the posts here, and think Foreigner hit home the best, but ill clarify a bit.. I think awakening is thrown around loosely, so sorry if I struck a cord with someone. I don't feel the need to "prove" my awakening if that makes sense.. But I understand the importance of dialogue.
I notice a large dissolution of ego which hasn't gone away.. And of course the jazz that this is an illusion, one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively,etc.

Yes I was fishing I suppose, and getting responses helped me answer my own question. What I was fishing for, was a sense of resonance. The "lure" you mention used to be very present, but that fire has been stomped out.
At the time I wrote the post, I had a slight sense of awe in the beauty; "wow, this is really it? I've always been here.."
Ended up giving away the last dose, felt someone else could benefit more.

I've been in this perspective before, years ago, but it was cut short as I was "too excited about life".. Who I was at the time changed completely, freaking family members out, and eventually lead to being involuntarily admitted and put on stabilisers..
Needless to say that didn't work, and I started experimenting again a year after.. Integration never crossed my mind when younger, but I know it is fundamental, in order to keep "riding the wave" and not returning to the cave

Ram dass said it well by saying "psychedelics may be a miracle(to consciousness), but not the only one". (Directed at Foreigner)
After collecting all my psych experiences, I just feel it has "awakened" the "spirit" again and I cannot flip the switch off.
The best way I can attempt to describe it in words, is this is the time where collectively the experiences have lead up to a critical mass. A breakthrough if you will.. Where non-ordinary states of mind are accessible, perhaps not full blown psychedelia, but as a reference. And I am working on finding models to communicate better, so I don't sound like a loon..

Indulging seems pointless at the moment, as the awareness I was searching for with LSD and the like has transferred into daily life. Life itself is the high, smallest moments such as a snowfall will enthral me with joy and appreciation of being alive.

Where do I think I was going or am..? Well.. Nowhere I suppose haha it's just really reminded me to identify the past/future as concepts, and knowing that all is now. I see great value in all your responses, and I hope I didn't confuse things more..?

Overall, individually it helps me a great deal to have these discussions, as it gives one clarity in the sense of "I'm not nuts, this is reality"
Please, if I am not being clear, point it out. Relaying it out through dialogue adds tremendous validity. The point of me even stretching this out, is for those who are maybe on the way to awakening to feel some resonance.

Very pleased with the efforts you all have gone to, to respond truthfully. Feel free to add, you're only helping.

Just to keep the boat rolling...
It seems as if the struggle with man(humans) is that the "light" or "awakening" hasn't reached the masses on a large scale.. Similar to the summer of love and those events.

What are your thoughts on how to speed up this change?
Do we even need to try to speed it up?
What possibilities do you find realistic to turning on the switch? (Example: natural disasters causing the surrounding area to put away greed and focus on love)
And finally.. Maybe list a moment, when without the aid of a psychedelic, you were "awakened" to a new paradigm which was unexpected.

Peace and love.

My first "awakening" came from my first real heartbreak. I was 18 and literally a week or two short of hitting the 1 year mark my girlfriend dumped me, I didn't see it coming at all. I meditated on the situation for days, often pacing around the house talking to myself while my parents were at work, and after about a week I wrote a 1 page essay summing up my conclusions. What I learned in that week is as profound as any psychedelic experience I have ever had.

The essay focused on the inevitability of change, the extent to which your future is out of your control, and the reason these are good things. Looking back on it after years of studying psychology and philosophy I realize that essay was the moment I became aware of and accepted the Absurd.

 

[Octarine]

Ahaha that is quite beautiful! That reminds me of the end of a certain relationship..
Things weren't working and I was blissfully ignorant, but one day had an awakening in a sense..
Everything looked different, and I became aware of the prison the relationship put me into.
Without ranting on details...

It seemed like a case of spiritual emergency, as if my soul was saying "enough is enough, it's time to go"
Thank you all for replying, and also reminding me.

Stay positive

 

[Dr.FeelGoodINC]

Just posted this in another topic, but it seems to fit here as well. This is my personal life experience.

I once felt lost, and as if much of my life had been wasted, and that substance abuse had stunted my mental and spiritual growth, and ultimately led to addiction and tragedy. When I came to a point where I accepted who I was wholly I began to learn of who I was. I began to get to know myself, and see that warts and all I am exactly who I am supposed to be. I now feel that in retrospect my drug use permanently changed and broadened my outlook on society and the state of affairs in the world we live.

At this point I feel that it is no longer necessary to use drugs. They served their purpose for me and excluding a few mild herbs (maryjane not included) I can leave them alone.

I can truly say that I do not regret my past substance abuse, only some of my actions in the throws of addiction.

I once loathed myself prior to my using, but today I am proud of who I am.

In retrospect drugs and alcohol arrested much of my development for a good number of years, but in the long run has led me to more mental and spiritual growth than I ever believe would have been possible had I simply remained the sober self-loathing individual I started out as.

I am not sure why some users or psychonauts never find this point, or why I have. Maybe it is the guilt both conscious and unconscious spurred by societies stigma associated w/ drugs, and the regrets this guilt helps foster. Possibly it is the hedonistic desire for more (addiction) which some never fully give themselves a chance to escape.

Much love, stay positive, and no matter what don't beat yourself up for your desires... that definitely does not foster growth.

 

[Foreigner]

Do we even need to try to speed it up?

We couldn't speed it up or slow it down if we wanted to. This is bigger than anybody, yet it includes all of us.

What possibilities do you find realistic to turning on the switch? (Example: natural disasters causing the surrounding area to put away greed and focus on love)
And finally.. Maybe list a moment, when without the aid of a psychedelic, you were "awakened" to a new paradigm which was unexpected.

Ok, I think I understand now the kind of question you're asking. You want to talk about global consciousness and the direction humanity is going. I took it to the universal oneness level, but you're talking more in the progress/evolution level.

I've had leaps in consciousness in different situations... traumatic ones and pleasant ones. The traumatic ones were so intense and I was so distraught that eventually something just flipped on and I realized that what I was upset about wasn't even happening anymore. I could see the illusion of its image in my mind exactly for what it was. At the time I was wondering if I was dissociating somehow, but it didn't have that feeling of "stepping back" from the problem, or detachment. It just felt like someone flicked off the simulation and I could see through the whole thing.