Tryptamines The Big & Dandy DMT Thread - The 6th Recursion

[Kaleida]

Yeah ive done that alot actually and did really enjoy it, when i first got into Salvia i got four ounces of plain leaf and smoked it off and on for like a year or two. I had some trips actually were i became the chair in my room for instance that were super interesting.

And yeah the stuff was kinda bizarre but at those dosages it was pretty manageable. When you get into the 20x extract its a whole other ballgame and i just wasnt mentally prepared for how mindblowing that was about to be. And to think that people smoke 60-80x extracts, well that is just insane. I did smoke a pretty decent size bowl when i did it, i probably should have done less.

Ah, that’s cool. Yeah, I really like it too. The craziest trip I’ve had yet on plain leaf was actually totally out-of-body but still calm and controllable, and it’s become one of my favorite experiences for how manageable and accessible it is. I even smoked it while sick recently as a pleasant disorienting painkiller and it totally worked.

Yeah, the way salvia is used to me is… kind of nuts. Frankly, I’m not sure why anyone expects any less than what it is (except when they’re new to drugs and don’t know anything about salvia, of course). Mushrooms 60X or LSD 60X wouldn’t be any less extreme or traumatizing if someone did that for their first time. Even Cannabis 60X would definitely have the capacity to make someone jump out a window with no tolerance, I’m certain of that. It’s a super weird scene that I think people treat more like spicy peppers than they do like other drugs, and I just don’t get how it started out that way. It’s definitely still impressive at that level though. I haven’t returned to extracts yet since I started using plain leaf but I’ve got some 10X sitting around for when I feel like it. But yeah, I’m definitely going to start with just some sprinkles in the bowl and move up. I just have found it much better when inching up so far.

 

[aag]

If you have a problem experiencing a breakthrough because of the disgusting taste of DMT like I did, I have a solution for it. I regret that nobody told me about it earlier, instead I foolishly tried vaporizing the powder.

My opinion is that vaporizing pure DMT with a oil pipe is NOT what you're supposed to do. I did an experiment and dissolved 50 mg of freebase DMT in acetone - by the way, it dissolves very easily. Almost instantly! I didn't even have to mix it. But this will only work for freebase. Salts won't dissolve so easily, as far as I know.

To this DMT solution, I added 50 mg of dried mint herb. I left it to evaporate which left me with a herb that was 50% DMT. I smoked this in a bong, without monitoring the temperature at all. I just burned it as if I were smoking marijuana or salvia. The taste was unrecognizable! Zero disgusting plastic taste known to me from vaporizing pure DMT. I just smoked it and experienced a breakthrough. It was beautiful. After this experience, I decided to process all my DMT in this way because vaporizing the powder is not for humans. Don't do it... unless you have lungs of steel.

1 hour before smoking, I ingested 150 mg of moclobemide for enhancement. It noticeably extended the length of the trip, about 2-3 times. But I also have the impression, although not supported by anything, that the experience itself is different when we supplement with moclobemide. A few months ago I attempted to vaporize some DMT without moclobemide, and I feel like the visuals were different. I will try smoking my home made DMT mint without any MAOI soon to strengthen or weaken this opinion.

 

[Everlynquinn]

Gotta say i agree with you there, my last and most profound Salvia trip on an extract was so incredible and mindblowing but also scary as absolute fuck. And i am i very experienced tripper on high doses of all types of stuff. It just sent this fear vibe that rattled my soul after i came down from the peak and i took off running outta my room and ran downstairs to talk to my mother and make sure they actually were real.

This entity revealed to me that this all is a simulation and my entire life has been just an illusion created by whatever cosmic beings are pulling the strings of this universe. And let me tell you this was not the sort of loving entity ive encountered on Tryptamines i felt like this thing was trying to fuck with me, cuz it showed me images of my mother and father and the melted away and then i went to pick up this tray i was rolling cigarettes on and it stretched out as i picked it up and looked like an accordion.

This is when i started to freak, then it pushed me on the chest and i fell backwards in bed and i shot down, and down like full on sensation of falling thru HUNDREDS of replicas of my bedroom and then hit some kinda bottom and shot back up like a bungee and i was sitting in bed again, coming down more. Totally flabergasted about what transpired and then i took off running full speed to see my mom.

Now spending hours possibly stuck in the grips of something like that, no way jose. But i actually do wanna try a salvia extract again sometime soon, dont ask me why. But i really wanna see what is out there, cuz while it was scary as fuck it was so interesting at the sametime. Deff one of the most powerful psychoactives out there without question, id say its stronger than DMT honestly.

But that being said ive never properly broken thru on DMT yet. Ive vaped it alot but i feel like my meth pipe method sucks bad, im thinking if i get one of those vape pens and take many many hits i could get there. When my friend smoked me up out of his machine back in the day that was my strongest trip i ever had, but i didnt break thru. Maybe when that happens i will change my mind.



This is the song that was playing when the Salvia hit, right around 0:55 is when that entity grabbed ahold of my mind is when the music changes tempo at that point. It was actually perfect in the way it played out, but again not exactly what i would call recreational and enjoyable in the slightest.

That sounds like a wild and unsettling experience. Psychedelic journeys can sometimes lead to intense and surreal revelations that challenge our sense of reality. It's important to take time to process and make sense of such experiences, and seek support if needed. You're not alone in navigating these moments.

 

[JackARoe]

Had 22 mgs of DMT last night the sandwich method. I use the sandwich method because it works well. I have the saying in my head don't fix what is not broken. One day I will try a vape. But honestly with the sandwich I can get strong trips with just 15 mgs.

So I took gabapentin earlier and that in itself can have it's own visuals especially along with cannabis. The last few times I had DMT was on gabapentin. I had said I owe DMT a trip without gabapentin but they seem to like each other. More than once one of these little DMT cartoon tikes took the gabapentin visuals and played with it like a glow light. Stretching it into these large visual structures that are astounding. And it seems to let me know just before it does it. What that is I do not know but I always laugh and it is always towards the end. And the structures are unreal. Beautiful. Like I was in the sphere in Las Vegas type visuals at times and then overlaying loose visuals turning into amazing cathedral buildings. Then torn down and rebuilt as if to tell me something. (endless expression) Some lesson it seems.

Incorporating DMT while grieving a loss has really opened up the psychic channels for me. The next few days I have clarity that somehow moves grief in my head and heart melts into a feeling of presence assuring me all is well and to be happy myself. The loss turns from a burning in the heart to understanding and clarity that makes it seem the one that passed is guiding it. I am sure people have their own experiences with that with or without psychedelics that are far out.

 

[brokedownpalace10]

Had 22 mgs of DMT last night the sandwich method. I use the sandwich method because it works well. I have the saying in my head don't fix what is not broken. One day I will try a vape. But honestly with the sandwich I can get strong trips with just 15 mgs.

So I took gabapentin earlier and that in itself can have it's own visuals especially along with cannabis. The last few times I had DMT was on gabapentin. I had said I owe DMT a trip without gabapentin but they seem to like each other. More than once one of these little DMT cartoon tikes took the gabapentin visuals and played with it like a glow light. Stretching it into these large visual structures that are astounding. And it seems to let me know just before it does it. What that is I do not know but I always laugh and it is always towards the end. And the structures are unreal. Beautiful. Like I was in the sphere in Las Vegas type visuals at times and then overlaying loose visuals turning into amazing cathedral buildings. Then torn down and rebuilt as if to tell me something. (endless expression) Some lesson it seems.

Incorporating DMT while grieving a loss has really opened up the psychic channels for me. The next few days I have clarity that somehow moves grief in my head and heart melts into a feeling of presence assuring me all is well and to be happy myself. The loss turns from a burning in the heart to understanding and clarity that makes it seem the one that passed is guiding it. I am sure people have their own experiences with that with or without psychedelics that are far out.

I am uber stressed at the mo'. Thinking of breaking up with my woman but can't do it now 'cause she physically needs me. It's been a long time since any deems and I have nearly taken the plunge a few times hoping for a heart opening. Psychedelics while stressed like this are usually a bad idea, but I'm not as sure about Dimitri. Eventually. Wish me luck.

 

[JackARoe]

I am uber stressed at the mo'. Thinking of breaking up with my woman but can't do it now 'cause she physically needs me.

The joys of getting older. I am sure a lot of us are in the same boat. But if you stay to help it makes you a decent dude as much as removing yourself from the situation would make you feel better. My wife has a million health issues even if I wanted to leave I would not. Maybe a month vacation but I will stick to the vow of for better or worse. (if married) But I am willing to bet as tired and beaten down as you are you do it because you love her. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. Sure it is not the beginning courting love but a caring for their well being. A larger Love. Just makes you decent dude. I'll buy you a beer when we finish. lol Good luck.

DMT is great for grieving. It can set the head straight. I grieve pets harder than people because they are around me 24/7. So it is harder. But wow did DMT set me straight.

 

[JackARoe]

So hey, to all knowledgeable people, we have been hearing for years the notion that the brain releases DMT upon the dying process. Then we hear that is not confirmed or even true. Yet so many people put forth that idea in many different ways. From drug talk to NDE's the idea seems to be thrown out a lot as fact

So forgive me if this is not a up straight yes or no question, but a yes or no answer will do. Is the notion that DMT releases DMT at the dying process true or not? Or do we don't know? Seems there are camps on both sides of this debate. And I just want the facts, just the facts. My opinion is that DMT does not get released or even has anything to do with the dying process. It is a very poetic idea, but I call BS. Saying that I have listened to stories of people that had an NDE and psychedelic experience and admitted there are similarities, but not the full monty. I do like listenening to people speak of NDE's who also have had psychedelic experience. I think psychedelics (DMT) are a tool. But I do not believe it is the reason for an NDE.

 

[Kaleida]

So hey, to all knowledgeable people, we have been hearing for years the notion that the brain releases DMT upon the dying process. Then we hear that is not confirmed or even true. Yet so many people put forth that idea in many different ways. From drug talk to NDE's the idea seems to be thrown out a lot as fact

For the majority of the time that people have been making this claim, there was zero scientific evidence of it. It was simply an idea that people ran with like it was proven fact. A lot of people are probably still comfortable making this claim like it's proven fact without being aware of any scientific evidence to support it. People just do that.

That being said, there is a small amount of scientific evidence that it might be the case, mostly one specific study from 2019.

So forgive me if this is not a up straight yes or no question, but a yes or no answer will do. Is the notion that DMT releases DMT at the dying process true or not? Or do we don't know? Seems there are camps on both sides of this debate. And I just want the facts, just the facts.

We don't know. However, one study has demonstrated that when rats are experiencing cardiac arrest, the endogenous DMT levels in their visual cortex significantly increase. They also found that during normal conditions, the endogenous DMT levels of the rats were similar to those of serotonin and dopamine, which certainly is an intriguing finding. This latter finding was also supported by a more recent study that is still in preprint. The notion that DMT levels in rats by default are similar to those of serotonin and dopamine could suggest that it does actually have some unappreciated role in normal neurotransmission, although it's not proof, and we don't know yet whether or not this applies to humans. Likewise, we don't know whether DMT levels in the visual cortex of humans spike during cardiac arrest like they do for rats, but if they do, and if they start out at levels similar to serotonin and dopamine by default, that does suggest that DMT could actually legitimately contribute to the subjective experience of cardiac arrest.

Do note that there are lots of ways to nearly die and none of them except cardiac arrest are claimed to involve increases in DMT levels by this study.

My opinion is that DMT does not get released or even has anything to do with the dying process. It is a very poetic idea, but I call BS. Saying that I have listened to stories of people that had an NDE and psychedelic experience and admitted there are similarities, but not the full monty. I do like listenening to people speak of NDE's who also have had psychedelic experience. I think psychedelics (DMT) are a tool. But I do not believe it is the reason for an NDE.

I do think it's worth considering that even if DMT is released during near-death experiences, the impact on your brain isn't necessarily going to be identical to what it is when you take it exogenously as a drug. The experience may not be identical but that doesn't necessarily mean that DMT being released isn't a crucial part of it. That being said there's probably a lot of things going on in your brain when you're nearly dying too, not just DMT being released.

I wouldn't be shocked if DMT is involved in some near-death experiences personally. But it definitely is undeniably the case that for a lot of the time, lots of people confidently claimed that it was with no scientific evidence whatsoever, based on something that wasn't meant to be more than an idea. I think it's important to state that there being scientific evidence found that possibly supports it actually being a real thing doesn't mean those people were right to treat it that way before then. But it could be a real thing. It could also be something that simply applies to rats and not humans. We're not at that level of understanding yet.

 

[JackARoe]

We don't know.

Always appreciate your participation Kaleida. Explains a lot. I can see people profoundly changed from their NDE. Much more than the person that says oh wow during a DMT trip. I mean there may be overlap but I do think they are two separate things that may be at least going in the same direction. Both experiences can change a person. But I have to say, after a lifetime of psychedelics and some extraordinary events I can't say I come close to an NDE at all. Not enough to make me change my entire life. A little bit and it at least feels like open doors but not going through

So I think things like DMT are at tool, but NDE's are something completely different. Although I did just see a few video's where the person that has had an NDE also tried psychedelics afterward and praise them as valuable like an NDE. I also saw one person say that ayahuasca like like a forced astral projection that was harsh on his body. That could have been just this personal experience but even he coined it as valuable.

It is when people talk about DMT being released at death as a fact that I say hold on a minute. That is either true or not.

 

[Kaleida]

Always appreciate your participation Kaleida. Explains a lot. I can see people profoundly changed from their NDE. Much more than the person that says oh wow during a DMT trip. I mean there may be overlap but I do think they are two separate things that may be at least going in the same direction. Both experiences can change a person. But I have to say, after a lifetime of psychedelics and some extraordinary events I can't say I come close to an NDE at all. Not enough to make me change my entire life. A little bit and it at least feels like open doors but not going through

So I think things like DMT are at tool, but NDE's are something completely different. Although I did just see a few video's where the person that has had an NDE also tried psychedelics afterward and praise them as valuable like an NDE.

I have had a psychedelic experience the superficially shared common qualities with purported near-death experiences that radically and inescapably changed my life going forward from the moment it happened.

[Edit: *snip*]

And for this reason, do I think that DMT could be responsible for near-death experiences? Yeah, definitely. Maybe it just doesn't happen except in the small percentage of times where it just happens to go all the way. It's entirely possible if you ask me. But again, also definitely still far from proven.

I also saw one person say that ayahuasca like like a forced astral projection that was harsh on his body. That could have been just this personal experience but even he coined it as valuable.

I could see that.

It is when people talk about DMT being released at death as a fact that I say hold on a minute. That is either true or not.

Definitely. It aggravates me to no end when people say DMT is released during death as if it's a known fact, or when they say it's released during birth, or during dreaming. None of that is in any way proven whatsoever.

Hope you've been doing well in general, @JackARoe.

 

[JackARoe]

on, do I think that DMT could be responsible for near-death experiences? Yeah, definitely. Maybe it just doesn't happen except in the small percentage of times where it just happens to go all the way. It's entirely possible if you ask me. But again, also definitely still far from proven.

I know with DMT and Salvia I can forget I was a human being that just smoked something until I come down. I did not even remember having a body. But the thing is I did have a body and some of these far out experiences come with some fight from the physical body side. I think that is why people fear strong DMT experiences. We are not released from the body and we are tied to it. Yet we leave. It is really fascinating.

Without a doubt I can say psychedelics changed me for the better. My thing is I tripped at 13, almost 14 years old and then continued that young. So I kind of grew into it naturally. As opposed to say someone older, dying of cancer and has their first mushroom trip. I remember there was a John Hopkins video of just that and the people felt such peace afterwards. It was heart warming. Never tripped, have months to live and take mushrooms and you see that effect on their spirits.

 

[Kaleida]

I know with DMT and Salvia I can forget I was a human being that just smoked something until I come down. I did not even remember having a body. But the thing is I did have a body and some of these far out experiences come with some fight from the physical body side. I think that is why people fear strong DMT experiences. We are not released from the body and we are tied to it. Yet we leave. It is really fascinating.

I do think this is actually one of the main cruxes of the issue when it comes to trying to achieve these kinds of experiences with psychedelics. I don't think that most people are actually prepared to fully "let go" into these experiences even if they're aware that that's ostensibly what they need to do and want to do it. There's a difference between thinking "I want to go all the way!" and actually being able to completely let go of yourself at the moment that your opportunity arrives. If you're really not comfortable letting go then you won't regardless of what you think you want leading up to that point. Although, I wonder if that's actually the bad thing people make it out to be?

I only ask this because to me, it seems that reaching the "completed" version of this kind of experience seems to be something that specifically relates to, in some way, giving up. That is to say, if you reach the light at the end of the tunnel, and there you find a door, and you're asked whether or not you want to go through the door, with a "No." meaning that you want to return to your life on Earth, then saying "Yes." means that you're ready to give up your life, right? Is that really what we're striving for as psychonauts? Pushing ourselves to the point of totally giving up? That's the thing - I don't feel like I was able to have these experiences because I took enough drugs that my mind finally opened up to me or whatever (even if that was part of how I got there). I know I got there because I was sad and ready to risk it all. The times I've described above are not the only times I've reached that point either. Sometimes in my life I have just felt ready to give up, and that's when these incredible things have happened. I don't just step over to the other side when I'm still hanging on tight to this one.

If you would fight to keep your life and you feel your body in a way that makes you uncomfortable while trying to push your mind to the point of breaking it's likely to make you not actually feel capable of completely letting go, right? At least, that logic seems to make sense to me. While I have much less experience in this area, I think this is why there are so many people that specifically like taking their powerful psychedelics alongside powerful dissociatives, or just using powerful dissociatives at higher dosages in general. Nothing to worry about if you're anesthetized to the point that you genuinely can't feel your body in addition to forgetting that it's there in the first place, right?

I also personally like this about salvia compared to DMT. DMT does make me physically uncomfortable personally while using it, while salvia does not. Salvia has always been a very comfortable drug in the body for me, even when producing a more abstract and ineffable sort of discomfort otherwise. Incidentally, I did eventually manage to "go somewhere" using salvia, and I've been obsessing over it ever since.

Without a doubt I can say psychedelics changed me for the better. My thing is I tripped at 13, almost 14 years old and then continued that young. So I kind of grew into it naturally. As opposed to say someone older, dying of cancer and has their first mushroom trip. I remember there was a John Hopkins video of just that and the people felt such peace afterwards. It was heart warming. Never tripped, have months to live and take mushrooms and you see that effect on their spirits.

Even having tripped plenty of times before in my life, I can imagine that I would want some psychedelics in a situation like that too. I do personally think that the amount of help I get from psychedelics seems to be proportional to the amount of help I actually need dealing with my stress at that moment, just like how I enjoy opioids a lot more than normal when I'm actually in physical pain when I take them compared to when I just try to take them for fun. It's hard to imagine me not wanting to have some healing psychedelia to comfort me in the final stages of my life like that, especially with that particular cause.

Psychedelics really are amazing tools. It's an embarrassment that it's taken us so long to appreciate and apply them in the mainstream, but at least we're finally catching up somewhat.

I started tripping at 18 and never looked back. I was kind of a late bloomer and still didn't have much grasp of reality at that time. It's been fifteen years now and I can't imagine not seeing psychedelics as just an ordinary part of human life. I think I would basically be a completely different person without them. And I look forward to continuing to take them for as long as that feels like the right thing to do.

 

[pupnik]

sometimes my wife talks to me about her ideas about weather or why a building takes on moisture,
no matter how much I tell her about surface run off and waterproofing, weeping tiles, and storm sewers, she retains strange beliefs that are as metaphysical as heaven, hell, and endogenous DMT.

I can talk to her about many things, but some concepts are just not accessible to her, and she fills in with the kind of atavistic thinking that is more related to forest fairies than forests and the living things that abide within.

I guess it's ok as long as she does not try to run a fix your wet basement company.

 

[brokedownpalace10]

sometimes my wife talks to me about her ideas about weather or why a building takes on moisture,
no matter how much I tell her about surface run off and waterproofing, weeping tiles, and storm sewers, she retains strange beliefs that are as metaphysical as heaven, hell, and endogenous DMT.

I can talk to her about many things, but some concepts are just not accessible to her, and she fills in with the kind of atavistic thinking that is more related to forest fairies than forests and the living things that abide within.

I guess it's ok as long as she does not try to run a fix your wet basement company.

I believe in the possibility of many metaphysical things. There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
However, that shit has not been quantified and won't pay the bills. Not something I would bet on.

 

[JackARoe]

BTW, when I say "pseudo life and consciousness, I do mean existing within our mind and not separate entities. Although, I don't discount anything.

I think I finally came to a conclusion with some of these ideas. Is it our own consciousness as entities or separate beings? Are you, brokedown, your own being? Or you part of my internal consciousness that I am talking too? I am coming to the conclusion internal and external are the same thing. So it is both. External beings but since we are all one it is internal.

I also have also liked the idea of Gaia, mother Earth as sentient. Another cool concept.

It had been some years but on my last trip one little guy managed to give me the finger and giggle. Not sure why that is common. I saw that long before Joe Rogan mentioned it and it is common. Also I forget trips, but someone mentioned the "red cross hat" people scurrying around. I remember them too now.

I have mentioned I do like blasting off when I have taken some gabapentin. People that know gabapentin know the subtle visuals it has. And DMT has its own visuals. So one trip I thanked the two for playing nice together and in a split second a colorful DMT entity came riding up on a colorful vehicle made from a gabapentin visual. It was like tada, you are welcome and tipped it's hat at me. I spit out laughing.