Terraforming

[Hatious]

Maybe the scope of the discussion could be widened to address any problems we may encounter while traveling to/living on other planets?

I think so. The inhabitance of another planet is ultimately contingent upon our method of arriving at the planet. This is a primary concern that is related to the ultimate success of terraforming. The speed of travel, protection from radiation, regulation (or manipulation) of gravity, and ability to maintain normal nutritional values are the immediate concerns IMO. The 3 latter concerns also apply to the actual inhabitance of another planet as well as the method of travel to the planet.

I disagree that the problem may take hundreds of years to develop. I believe the problem would come out quickly if there was one (what kind of problems do you forsee?), and in 100 years, we would be well on the way to adapting to the new environment.

I believe that humans would be able to make a transition like this, although it may be a slow, gradual process.

This is true. Problems may occur relatively quickly. However, eventual genetic mutation may occur over a long period of time and radically change human beings. These mutations could be equally as fateful as the consequences of remaining on Earth. This is a situation we would want to avoid since it could negate our efforts to survive and perhaps worsen the situation. The point being is that risk needs to be accurately assessed, and it is going to be difficult given the lack of human knowledge and comprehension that I believe is required.

The most immediate problems I foresee are the problems involved with a change in gravity, which has been shown to negatively influence the human body. This has been shown to be true when the human body is exposed to zero gravity conditions for as few as 6 months. This point pertains to travel. More minute changes in gravity such as the gravitational forces on Mars could be less severe than zero gravity conditions therefore taking a much longer time affect the development of the human body and ultimately the condition of human mind. We need to better understand gravity.

We also need to develop more feasible propulsion systems.

Unprecedented times, these are! I'm optimistic; maybe wrongfully so, but being pessimistic isn't going to get us anywhere. (Not that you are being pessimistic; I'm speaking generally)

Yes they are!

I agree with you about optimism versus pessimism. Thanks for clarifying that you do not believe my thoughts are pessimistic. I only voice them because I desire to understand and eventually move beyond them.

 

[Akoto]

All of those places, those different climates and locations all have a single common denominator. Earth. By Earth, I not only mean the physical world in which we live but also the mental and cognitive capacity innately within ourselves. Our cognitive state is ultimately determined by our physical state (whatever that may actually be). Our physical state is the sort of basis that provides for our mental state.

Variations in gravity are/is a major obstacle. Since gravity is poorly understood, it will be hard to fully account for the uncertainties in how gravity will interact with the human body in its physical state; and, therefore how gravity will determine the state of physical growth in human beings and consequently our state of mental capacity.

The human body is very resilient. It is adaptable. There is a great amount flux in what the human body can withstand. However, taking the human body outside of the environment in which it is created i.e. what is responsible for the physical and mental state of the human being, presents a number of problems.

These problems may not be immediate. They could take decades, perhaps hundreds of years to develop.

All that you said right there was covered in the one sentance I said about size of the planet.

While this may infact be a problem over the long term, there simply isnt enough information to even speculate on about such a problem, or about what possable solutions there may be (how about a machine that could simulate Earth gravity via cyntripical force?).

 

[MyDoorsAreOpen]

Gravity... yeah I never thought of that.
Seems to me gravity is the thing that most defines a planet and determines what it's capable of, which is what I think you're getting at, Akoto.

In Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars Trilogy, he paints the Mars-born humans as much larger and 'stretched out' looking, including their heads, if I recall correctly, due to the lower gravity there. But as you pointed out Hatious, I don't think this would be the extent of the differences. I think it's very likely that in a different gravitational field, many animal organs, including the brain, would develop quite differently from how they do on earth, perhaps in a disastrous way.

It's funny how science fiction writers and futurists who 'design' space stations of the future are always careful to establish that the thing rotates at just the right speed to mimic Earth's gravity with centrifugal force. Why is this so quickly forgotten when it's other planets we're considering?

It would probably be much cheaper to land a self-contained rat colony on Mars, with a continuous feed of video and other probe data back to Earth and many years' worth of food and water, so that we could observe the effects of Martian gravity on successive generations and long-term populations. Not completely cheap or completely ethical, but far more so than sending a colony of humans in cold!

 

[Pegasus]

It's funny how science fiction writers and futurists who 'design' space stations of the future are always careful to establish that the thing rotates at just the right speed to mimic Earth's gravity with centrifugal force. Why is this so quickly forgotten when it's other planets we're considering?

I don't think it is forgotten...

It would probably be much cheaper to land a self-contained rat colony on Mars, with a continuous feed of video and other probe data back to Earth and many years' worth of food and water, so that we could observe the effects of Martian gravity on successive generations and long-term populations. Not completely cheap or completely ethical, but far more so than sending a colony of humans in cold!

I think that is the logical answer, but in the mean time, I think it's necessary to continue to speculate on what factors we might be working with.

 

[exarkann]

other factors? duration of night/day(although, oddly enough humans naturally run on a 25 hour cycle), and spectrum of light from the local star..

we seem to be pretty sensitive to night/day cycles, and light in general.

although, again, we can look to science fiction for inspiration. i love that stuff.

 

[Akoto]

Not completely cheap or completely ethical, but far more so than sending a colony of humans in cold!

Its funny how we would send people to Mars in a jiffy if we knew how with no question of ethics, yet the question is posed to a pile of rats who get to have the most exciting trip anyone has ever gone on.

 

[Hatious]

Its funny how we would send people to Mars in a jiffy if we knew how with no question of ethics, yet the question is posed to a pile of rats who get to have the most exciting trip anyone has ever gone on.

Not so much funny as practical, as I see it. It isn't about ethics.

Also, from what we do know about longer term radiation exposure the trip would by anything but exciting. We already know how to send animals to mars. There is a reason rats would be chosen over humans.