• Select Your Topic Then Scroll Down
    Alcohol Bupe Benzos
    Cocaine Heroin Opioids
    RCs Stimulants Misc
    Harm Reduction All Topics Gabapentinoids
    Tired of your habit? Struggling to cope?
    Want to regain control or get sober?
    Visit our Recovery Support Forums

Opioids Switching to Butrans patches - a few questions

bluesteyes

Bluelighter
Joined
Mar 11, 2016
Messages
126
I have been trying to get off of opioids for months now via OxyContin and Percocet, and it just ain't working. Both my doctor and I feel that using the butrans patches might do the trick. My main problem with the Percs is that they are too easy to overuse, and my main problem with the OxyContin is that they give you something like 20% of the medication in the 1st hour, and then spoon feed you the rest for the remaining time. Also, the OxyContin simply doesn't last 12 hrs for me. It dies off after about 8 hrs, and so I find myself having to take it 3x per day.

I currently use around 60mg (total) of OxyContin per day. I might add a couple of 10mg Percs here and there, but not everyday. My doctor gave me 20mcg patches.

My main goal with these patches is not to reduce pain, but to simply avoid withdrawal symptoms. A few questions:

1) Is it true that it takes these patches 3 or so days to get fully absorbed in your system and fully work? Even if you are already taking an opioid like OxyContin? If so, am I likely to experience withdrawal symptoms during the switch?

2) My doctor seemed to think that 60mg (total) of OxyContin per day would translate OK over to a 20mcg patch. I have looked at various conversion charts, and they confuse me. I just want avoid withdrawal symptoms.

3) I have been told that unlike OxyContin, these patches provide a truly steady, continuous stream of medication into your system. That you may not feel the "rush" of a 10mg Percocet, but it also isn't like an OxyContin where if you take a 10mg pill you only get 2mg or 3mg of medication within the first hour and even less the remaining 11 hours. Is this true?

4) Lots of reports out there about these patches only lasting 5 days for some people. For others, they truly last 7. What is your experience? Again, I am okay if their pain relieving properties start to diminish at the 5 day mark. I just want to withdrawal symptoms at all times. I sometimes wonder if the people who only get 5 days of relief are using the patches wrong or something.

5) Do the patches stay on pretty well, or do you advise using medical tape or something from the get go? I will be taking hot showers. I also tend to move around a lot when I sleep.

6) Lastly, if I find that the 20mcg patches are not keeping the withdrawal symptoms away, can you actually use two butrans patches at once? For instance, could my doctor prescribe a 2nd patch that is a smaller dose to go along with the 20mcg patch? I want to avoid taking pills.

Thanks for your input and assistance.
 
Will you go through withdrawals? Maybe subtly, but will it at some degree happen? I'd say so

Is a 60mg OxyContin conversion to 20mcg Butrans patches insane and totally inefficient? Absolutely

Can you use two patches+ at the same time? Yes
 
I wish to emphasize that I am currently taking 60mg of OxyContin, total, per day. Not 60mg per dose. I wouldn't think that going from 60mg of Oxy per day to 20mcg butrans is totally insane. Not that they are equal, either.

Just out of curiousity, if someone were taking 45mg of OxyContin, total, per day, how would that convert to the 20mcg patch? I just recently moved up to 60mg of Oxy per day. I was at 45mg.

I have some backup 10mg OxyContin pills in case I go into withdrawals while wearing the patch. I suppose I could use those during the transition phase if I withdrawal in a major way. And as you say, there is always the option to use another patch (a smaller dose patch). But that could get pricey. What I also like about these patches is that all my doctor has to do is call in the script. No more having to travel 25 miles to pickup a lousy piece of paper. So much easier.
 
Last edited:
I had been on these patches when I had an already opioid dependency, and they are horrible to take it you are trying to avoid withdrawn synptoms. They are too weak. The patch I had was 5mg and is supposed to deliver it over the course of 7 days. In the micrograms by the hour. I remember slapping three patches in to try to avoid withdrawl from my opiate habit and it did no justice. They are just way too weak
Yes they stick on your body ok, but they don't stick on as good as fent patches. Butran is just an annoyance and a waste of time for people like us.
 
It would seem to me that your problem OK was your starting dosage. 5mcg is nothing. Any doctor who gives that as a starting dosage at a time when you were already using opioids is being irresponsible. 5mcg is something you would take as your final taper.
 
And the conversion isn't 60mg oxycodone extended release into 20mcg buprenorphine but 20mcg extended release buprenorphine. I feel you already realize this, it's just something I felt I should add.
 
Which was Butrans patches are made for people with no tolerance developed to opioids.
 
It's funny you mention that, because their literature says the exact opposite. That if you take anything above 10mcg, you need to be "opioid experienced." I should mention that the OxyContin I take is extended release. I don't take the instant release variety.
 
Well I've been on the 20mcg Butrans patch for 5 days, and I have to say it has helped. Of course now I am worried that the patch will wear off early now that it's the 5 day mark. But I find that I don't need as many Percocets as I used to to get through the day. I have tried going without Percocets, and I end up with mild withdrawal symptoms as opposed to major ones. I sweat like crazy and get the chills, but there are no cramps, leg kicking, nausea, diarrhea, etc. I have been taking some combination of Percocet and/or OxyContin for six months.

I have a three day weekend coming up starting on Saturday.....part of me is tempted to drop the Percocets and see if I can withstand the withdrawal symptoms knowing that I have the patch on to give me some relief. The only time I have tried kicking opioids is cold turkey, and that's true hell.

When you do a big taper, but don't totally eliminate opioids, do you see a reduction in the amount of days that you withdrawal? Or is it still the same 7-10 day withdrawal period....just with less intensity?
 
Anybody try using two 20mcg Butrans patches at once? I know the manufacturer doesn't recommend it (something about potential heart issues with some patients - I have no history of heart trouble), but my psychiatrist okayed it. He prescribes Butrans a lot. I am just about out of Percocets, and will go into full withdrawals unless I get extra relief by Saturday mid day. I attached 2 new patches just now. I have already been on one patch since last Thursday. I took it off, replaced it with a new one, and placed a second one adjacent to it. Hope it works...but I am curious if anyone has had any experience with two patches. My tolerance level is very near what two patches are supposed to deliver.
 
Well putting the two 20mcg Butrans patches on worked until I could get some OxyContin on Monday. By my pulse rate at times was in the 130's. Yikes. They kept the withdrawals away, but the patches itched like mad and left a huge rash on my upper chest after removal. I also made the stupid mistake of tearing the patches off after 5 days and immediately starting the 30mg OxyContin. I think I boosted my tolerance the past few days before the Butrans had enough time to get out of my system. I woke up this morning with nasty withdrawal symptoms that just wouldn't die down until I took 90mg of Oxy. Those patches are just a monumental waste of money. $167 for four of them, and that's with a discount card. Now I've got all these businesses calling me about crap I have no interest in. That's why I never sign up for discount cards at grocery stores and such. They sell your info to other companies. It becomes a pain.
 
Bear with the long post, it should be worth it. I have been prescribed Butrans 20mcg patches for nearly 2 years for moderately severe chronic back pain. I have researched them Extensively and use them primarily for pain relief but also to keep my breakthrough pain dosage of oxycodone lower. Butrans is definitely more effective when combined with other medications like Lyrica, Robaxin, NSAIDs, traditional full agonist opiates and there are some potentiators in my experience- I would always recommend Butrans in combination with other drugs for chronic pain and your doctor probably should too. Personally, around the clock it does wonders for turning down the volume of my pain a few points, perhaps from 6/10 to a 3 or 4. For people looking for a buzz, this won't be worth your time. It certainly takes 2-3 days for sufficient relief from first initiating treatment with Butrans. A 15 or 20mcg patch will help immensely for withdrawal from therapeutic doses of something like oxycodone or hydrocodone, but don't expect heavy / illicit opiate users to be impressed because the dose simply isn't high enough. However, it's better than nothing! A primary reason heavy users won't be impressed is the slow onset of action. Addiction is strongly connected to rapid onset so Suboxone will be needed for people taking high doses, perhaps if they take more than 100mg Oral Morphine Equivalent daily. If you don't have a solid understanding of opioid conversion to the standardized OME, do some research. It took quite a bit of research to find Butrans conversion values but a 20mcg patch comes out to 40 - 48mg of oral morphine daily. In comparison, 30mg oral oxycodone over 24 hours equals 45mg OME with a conversion factor of 1.5 : 1

A few key points:

-The manufacturer recommends changing the patch every 7 days and is supplied in boxes of 4. However, I change mine every 6 days because the drug is no longer being absorbed after day 5. The long half-life of 50 odd hours accounts for the extra 2 days, so you still have some active drug but you can expect to notice it wearing off by day 7. However, some people do fine with 7 day dosing so at least give this a try. If nothing else it gives your body a slight taper each week and will help keep the drug effective with less tolerance build up over time. I needed reliable and consistent pain reduction and 6 days has worked great for 2 years straight. I have zero desire to change the patch after just 5 days but the first 12-48 hours of a new patch are certainly much stronger.

-Once you are using the patch on a regular basis and have steady state plasma levels of buprenorphine, breakthrough opiates won't work quite as well. I would say they feel half as strong and wear off faster. You probably know Bupe has an extremely high binding affinity for the mu-receptors and only the strong opiates are able to compete and bind. However, Butrans is not a very high dose of Bupe so roughly only about 50% of the mu-receptors will be occupied by it. My pain was so much better when I started Butrans but physical activity would still cause the pain to flare up so I take oxycodone 10mg 3x/day. It was such a relief to finally get that relaxed feeling in my legs at the end of the day when I lied down for a while, but IR oxycodone alone wears off too quickly to be reliable. The combination is effective even if some pharmacists will tell you oxycodone won't work if you're taking it. They haven't researched the graphs and data like I have and certainly haven't lived the experience.

-Initiating Butrans when you're already tolerant to oxy can potentially cause precipitated withdrawal, but not super severely. Most likely nothing like starting suboxone too early, but this is where the warning comes from. It may be necessary to lower the dose by some amount before the switch. This question will be hard to find a direct answer to and varies significantly between patients. If you feel withdrawal setting in, this should happen slowly and since plenty of receptors are still open you could take a percocet and probably feel fine.

-The patches stick quite well but TEGADERM covers are necessary to keep them from peeling away or sliding around / bunching up. The patch alone will come off while swimming and you should cover them with Tegaderm waterproof film even in the shower. These covers aren't perfect but they help a lot. If you expose the patch to heat, like hot water, you won't notice immediate effects but the patch will wear off earlier at the end of the week because heat causes the delivery speed to increase by ~ 50%. The instructions say not to, but clean the skin with alcohol around the patch perimeter where the adhesive will stick and shave if you're hairy. Just don't break the skin or dry it out. NEVER cut the center of the patch where the medicine is, but if the patch wrinkles on you it helps to snip the adhesive border a little to help it flex and lay flush on curved skin. This all takes trial and error. Keep the patches dry or itchy & somewhat painful blisters will develop. This happens even from sweat, it's a tradeoff and completely worth it. The patches never stuck well on my chest or back. I use ribs and triceps, alternating and moving the exact repeated location by a few inches every time.

-Tegaderm patches are stupid expensive at the pharmacy. $20 for 4 at the store. Buy them ONLINE, medical refill packs of 50# cost $25 and they are Identical. Get the size 4" x 4 - 3/4" Item # 1626W


Now, to answer your primary question. Butrans for withdrawal relief if you're tolerant to 60mg oxy ER daily...
First - you must start the patch a couple days before running out of the other medicine and be nice to your body, save enough oxy to taper for several days and allow the transition to work. 60mg oxy = 90mg oral Morphine Eq. Which means a 20mcg patch will be equivalent to a 50% dose reduction of opioid. My medicine was stolen once and I used the patch to ease withdrawal symptoms, it worked very well. You will feel somewhat exhausted and depressed with some cravings but I wouldn't expect nausea or strong anxiety. Your bowels will work better but not diarrhea. Now, these symptoms are notoriously subjective so keep that in mind. I would also recommend quality kratom which does work for me in combination with Butrans. The two of these should keep you going just fine in the absence of a full agonist opiate but remember you will pay for it one way or another if you take too much of your medicine and run out early. The butrans should keep you sane and out of the ER needing relief.

There is something dangerous about your idea! The highest dosage allowed in America for transdermal buprenorphine is 20mcg/hour because studies have shown higher doses can cause dangerous heart problems - specifically QTc wave interval prolongation. This condition is rare but potentially deadly so I have never taken more than 20mcg. However, TransTec is used in Europe, same thing as Butrans but comes in higher doses up to 70mcg/hour. Not sure why very high doses of suboxone are tolerated while transdermal delivery can cause this problem. Therefore, don't use multiple patches and doctors shouldn't be recommending doing so. Most doctors are very poorly educated on Butrans. I really don't think you would need 2 patches to ease the withdrawal anyway! I certainly didn't.

Back to the notion of combining Butrans with other meds for the best results. This is where things get interesting. Lyrica really kicks it in and will subdue peripheral or radiating pain very well at doses of 300-600mg / day. Normal doses of DXM, especially the 12 hour extended release cough syrup, make Butrans much more sedating and effective for me. To the point that I was using it on a regular basis and sleeping longer than I should. Lastly, Tagamet (cimetidine) is a common hepatic enzyme potentiator of many drugs. While online resources don't typically list cimetidine as interfering with blood levels of buprenorphine, I am positive that 400mg once a day will make a big difference! I can't comment on the safety of these combinations and I wouldn't take them on a regular basis, do your own research. Cimetidine can also potentiate Kratom quite a lot! If you combine them take half the regular dose of Kratom to test.

Finally, buprenorphine is a wonder drug for people trying to stay healthy. Tolerance develops quite slowly and it does not destroy receptors in comparison to full agonists. Some research actually suggests Bupe can heal and increase receptor count, leading to the body naturally fighting off pain more effectively. Without insurance these patches cost $180 a piece, so check if your insurance company covers them on the prescription formulary guide. If the doctor offered me unlimited oxy if I gave up the patches I would say NO, and find a new doctor.

Coming off of Butrans needs to be tapered just as
much as anything else. The withdrawal from cold turkey was anxious and quite uncomfortable and I only went a few days too long. However, it's a much safer long term medication than percocet and the strong cravings that make you gobble up the oxy simply won't be a factor. You will feel healthier after the transition. This guide is not just for the original question but anyone considering Butrans. I HIGHLY recommend it. The 5mcg/hour patch is quite weak but your doctor may want to start new patients at this dose and titrate up every week. I would certainly try 20mcg Butrans before jumping on suboxone because the dose will likely be too high and much harder to quit. Good Luck.
 
I have been trying to get off of opioids for months now via OxyContin and Percocet, and it just ain't working. Both my doctor and I feel that using the butrans patches might do the trick. My main problem with the Percs is that they are too easy to overuse, and my main problem with the OxyContin is that they give you something like 20% of the medication in the 1st hour, and then spoon feed you the rest for the remaining time. Also, the OxyContin simply doesn't last 12 hrs for me. It dies off after about 8 hrs, and so I find myself having to take it 3x per day.

I currently use around 60mg (total) of OxyContin per day. I might add a couple of 10mg Percs here and there, but not everyday. My doctor gave me 20mcg patches.

My main goal with these patches is not to reduce pain, but to simply avoid withdrawal symptoms. A few questions:

1) Is it true that it takes these patches 3 or so days to get fully absorbed in your system and fully work? Even if you are already taking an opioid like OxyContin? If so, am I likely to experience withdrawal symptoms during the switch?

2) My doctor seemed to think that 60mg (total) of OxyContin per day would translate OK over to a 20mcg patch. I have looked at various conversion charts, and they confuse me. I just want avoid withdrawal symptoms.

3) I have been told that unlike OxyContin, these patches provide a truly steady, continuous stream of medication into your system. That you may not feel the "rush" of a 10mg Percocet, but it also isn't like an OxyContin where if you take a 10mg pill you only get 2mg or 3mg of medication within the first hour and even less the remaining 11 hours. Is this true?

4) Lots of reports out there about these patches only lasting 5 days for some people. For others, they truly last 7. What is your experience? Again, I am okay if their pain relieving properties start to diminish at the 5 day mark. I just want to withdrawal symptoms at all times. I sometimes wonder if the people who only get 5 days of relief are using the patches wrong or something.

5) Do the patches stay on pretty well, or do you advise using medical tape or something from the get go? I will be taking hot showers. I also tend to move around a lot when I sleep.

6) Lastly, if I find that the 20mcg patches are not keeping the withdrawal symptoms away, can you actually use two butrans patches at once? For instance, could my doctor prescribe a 2nd patch that is a smaller dose to go along with the 20mcg patch? I want to avoid taking pills.

Thanks for your input and assistance.
These Butrans patches are amazing!! No they don’t come off from rolling around a lot in bed and yes you can shower with them on. Doesn’t affect the medication. I don’t bother covering mine. Doesn’t make a difference. With patches, you are to avoid any intense heat exposure…electric blankets, very hot showers, tanning, in sun too long, as it intensifies the medication absorption. You just feel pain free and great 24 hours a day.🤗🤗
My patches wear off after 5 days. Day 6 & 7 I’m in a lot of pain. So doc has prescribed mine every five days instead. It’s a very strong opioid & works crazy slick for pain. I use Percocet or supeudol for breakthru pain, but once the patch is set high enough, you don’t even have breakthru pain.
Yes you can put on more than one patch. When I started, I had a 10 mcg on one arm and then increased with a 5 mcg on the other. For optimal and stable pain relief, try to put your patches on at the same time though! 🌸🌷
Today I’m switching from 15 mcg to 20 mcg. Will see how that goes. My pain specialist says he can go as high as 40 mcg with the patch.
Hope this all helps. And seriously don’t worry about the sticking factor…those babies are on there good!!
 
This seems like very good delivery system for bupe, for pain-relief possibly the best. Imho they should make stronger patches rather than injectable form. But many psychiatrists have hard on for giving meds in a form over which patient has no control.
 
Top