Benzos Suffering from high dose of Xanax and Lithium? Need advice please.

[bluntedskier]

Sorry I don't know if this is the proper place to post this. I don't know of any other good forums, I should probably find a more therapeutic one, but kids seem to know whats up with substances here.... and I already have an account so yea.


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I went through a period of severe anxiety after an incident at college that brought me back home for a year.

While the psychiatrist diagnosed me as bipolar, I have never experienced the 'manic' symptoms that I read about... I disagree. I have some other type of issue. I've been on 1200mg of Lithium for several months now and I began to actually notice the positive effects after a while: far less anxiety and just overall more calmness/more mature decisions.

However I've been on benzos for many months too now.... At first it was Klonapin, but then we switched to strictly Xanax about a month ago.

I am prescribed 6mg of Xanax XR a day, and up to 4mg of Upjohn Xanax IR bars a day (if needed). Needless to say, my tolerance is very high, and yes I know the potential dangers of all this. The ironic thing is that my psychiatrist is NOT at all the type to just hand out pills... for the first month or so together, he would not give me any benzos what so ever, even though I was suffering heavily.

The Lithium seemed to be working because I would wake up without the normal anxiety I would have, and in general, seemed to damper it way down.... so I have been doing my best to take a minimal dose of Xanax per day, which came down to an average of 4mg XR. Very light for me, you don't feel the XRs as a 'high'.

But the biggest side effect of the Lithium is that I've noticed it has made it feel almost impossible to be myself in terms of creativity and productivity, which is what I rely on in life. As it dampened my anxiety, it also put a damper on my brain. Dulled me. With a lot of writing and other creative work to do, I then turned to buying adderall from a friend whenever was presented, and went through a couple week period of taking that often. That would bring me back to my normal state of capable and creative mind.

But then the consequence of using so much adderall when you have an anxiety problem/other disorder, is that you end up taking more and more of your Xanax to counteract the terrible side effects that amphetamines can have. So for example, a day that I would take 30-50mg adderall, I would end up taking usually 8mg-10mg Xanax.

I got rid of the last of the adderall last week, and I am done with that after seeing it have a terrible effect on me. But it's been like 5 days now.... and I feel like any negative effects of the adderall should be gone. I've worked out, continued taking my lithium, gone the steam room, eaten well, slept well etc...

However I DONT KNOW what the fuck is wrong with me? Like today, I have only taken 2mg XR this morning, I can't stop grinding my teeth/moving my jaw. Feel like my brain is just... IDK, so dulled. This has been going on for several days now. Like right now the only thing I can think of doing is taking a 2mg bar, but at the same time I know I shouldn't and don't need to since they are really made for severe panic attacks.

I also feel like I am incapable of doing any of the imperative tasks I need to get done for school and life. I am not sure why writing this paragraph is possible actually.


I feel like a fucking zombie. Can't think clearly, lots of tension, none of my usual motivation...etc This may of all been re-set off by taking Addies consecutively but the thing is that I wouldn't of needed to take so much adderall if I didn't feel so dulled from the Lithium in the first place....

I think I need to get off Lithium, and taper off Xanax very carefully, and just be on a safer, longer lasting benzo perhaps since I'm guessing my anxiety problem isn't going to just disappear.

Xanax XR seems to work well, is safe and not really abuseable, but I was thinking maybe Valium? Never tried it. Rather take nothing I'm sick of relying on pills to run my life all of a sudden.


Any wise words would be helpful. And of course........... yes I am going to bring this all up with my doctor, probably just print this out since I've already written down so many of my thoughts on it, but I wanted to see if anyone else had experience with this.

 

[Oxymorphone]

5 days? How much adderall were you taking? 50mg of XR a day is a lot for someone with no ADHD. 10mg XR can last 12 hours.... How much sleep have you gotten since? All adderall effects should stop when it is out of your system and you have slept. Also Xanax XR is hardly safe and I laugh at you saying it isn't abusable. I dare you to find one controlled substance in any form that isn't abusable. Valium is an old benzo and you are much better off with clonazepam or lorazepam for anxiety which are the two big ones your doctor would move to switch you to anyway. Stop taking amphetamines.

 

[hydrochron]

It's not good to take more then 8mg's of xanax a day, dont go above that. Also why do you take extended release and bars, that really doesn't make sense.
I would suggest taking it easy on the adderal, adderal has levo amphetamine which causes alot of anxiety, straight D-amphetamine doesn't cause this.

6mg's of xanax a day is probably a good place to be, maybe try klonopin, it works pretty good for some people. Talk to your Dr, and for christ sake you dont need to take instant release and extended release, the extended release's half life is the same as the instant release without the Instant relief LOL.

 

[MeddieFrac]

Hey bro, I have a lot of experience with anxiety and benzodiazepines and especially with Xanax. I would have to say that what you are currently experiencing is most likely caused by a light to moderate withdrawal from Xanax.

To go from taking 10mg a day of Xanax for 2 weeks back down to your normal dose of 4mg a day will definitely cause you to have MORE anxiety than normal, hence your teeth grinding and zombie-like state. You are going to feel like this perhaps a few more days, but you should get back to normal soon.

Just hang in there, and don't stop taking your Lithium or Xanax until you talk to your doctor. Are they doing periodic blood tests to see what your Lithium level is? 1200mg is a pretty hefty dose, but if it is showing results, why discontinue taking it?

Also, you might be experiencing slight withdrawals from 2 weeks of taking amphetamines along with the withdrawals from the high doses of Xanax. Just hang in there, and don't stop taking your medication until you talk to your doctor about this.

I wouldn't show your doctor what you wrote in the post, because he/she will probably be unhappy with the fact that you illegaly purchased the amphetamines and also with the fact that you started taking more Xanax, which in the doctors eyes will mean that you are abusing Xanax and he/she might not prescribe it to you anymore. Good luck man, and just hang in there okay?

 

[MeddieFrac]

Also why do you take extended release and bars, that really doesn't make sense. Talk to your Dr, and for christ sake you dont need to take instant release and extended release, the extended release's half life is the same as the instant release without the Instant relief LOL.

I think it makes complete sense to have both XR and IR Xanax. From what the OP said, he takes XR daily, and has the IR to take as break through relief for when the anxiety is really bad. What do you think?

 

[bluntedskier]

Hey bro, I have a lot of experience with anxiety and benzodiazepines and especially with Xanax. I would have to say that what you are currently experiencing is most likely caused by a light to moderate withdrawal from Xanax.

To go from taking 10mg a day of Xanax for 2 weeks back down to your normal dose of 4mg a day will definitely cause you to have MORE anxiety than normal, hence your teeth grinding and zombie-like state. You are going to feel like this perhaps a few more days, but you should get back to normal soon.

Just hang in there, and don't stop taking your Lithium or Xanax until you talk to your doctor. Are they doing periodic blood tests to see what your Lithium level is? 1200mg is a pretty hefty dose, but if it is showing results, why discontinue taking it?

Also, you might be experiencing slight withdrawals from 2 weeks of taking amphetamines along with the withdrawals from the high doses of Xanax. Just hang in there, and don't stop taking your medication until you talk to your doctor about this.

I wouldn't show your doctor what you wrote in the post, because he/she will probably be unhappy with the fact that you illegaly purchased the amphetamines and also with the fact that you started taking more Xanax, which in the doctors eyes will mean that you are abusing Xanax and he/she might not prescribe it to you anymore. Good luck man, and just hang in there okay?

I appreciate your post man. It took about 5 days, but I started feeling a lot better. I believe it was primarily from using the amphetamines. Some kids can handle it, and don't get affected so negatively.. but it seems to have a lingering, terrible effect on me if I take it more than just like once a month.

Also yes I have a very good doctor who has constantly monitored all my blood and other levels. It's funny you mention that 1200mg seems like a hefty dose - because he considers it a light dose... Idk my blood readings came out to be .7-.8 which is just on barley on the therapeutic level.

I don't know how I feel about taking the Lithium long term - as it does have it's subtle effects on my creative side that is essential to me. However, I definitely am not planning on staying on the Xanax for too much longer. We will get into a tapering plan soon and figure out something out in it's replace until, as he is convinced, the Lithium will make it so I do not have to take any benzos at all.

We will see. Thanks again

Oh and about speaking to him about illegal stuff, such as purchasing Adderall illegally... haha that's funny to me cause I am extremely honest with him about everything I do, including illegal activity. But I know people and doctors are different in different parts of the country.


But my main concern after making sure that I absolutely need to be on Lithium.... is making sure that Xanax does not become a problem ITSELF cause I am trying to make big moves in my life foward and the last thing I need is to have to go to detox for Xanax in some fancy resort place in florida or someshit.

6mg's of xanax a day is probably a good place to be, maybe try klonopin, it works pretty good for some people. Talk to your Dr, and for christ sake you dont need to take instant release and extended release, the extended release's half life is the same as the instant release without the Instant relief LOL.

I agree about amphetamines. While they put me into a serene, perfect world, where I can work like a god and create everything and anything.... the consequences of coming down are simply not worth it and throw my brain off for a while.


But LOL dude no offense that's one of the most retarded/ignorant comments I have read on this site.

"The XR half life is the same as the instant relief.."

How high are you? haha. That makes absolutely no sense and is factually not true...... The half life of a normal IR xanax pill is from 2-4 hours..... the half life of the same mg XR xanax pill is in the range of about 12+ realistic hours. For example my girlfriend weighs 95 pounds and has zero tolerance to benzos. She was feeling anxious one morning, so I gave her 4mg of Xanax XR. She did not 'feel' anything at all.... she just felt calm and her underlying anxiety was gone for the next 24 hours.

HAD she taken 4mg Instant Release Xanax bars that morning, she would of been falling all over the place as if she were wasted and not have been able to function.

See my point?

And in regards to safety and abuse ability. Both you guys are wrong on that subject as well. While you can still definitely become addicted to Xanax XR and deal with the same withdrawal symptoms.... There is practically NO recreational value or anyway to abuse an XR, unless you just ate a shitload of them with no tolerance, which in that case would be retarded and you would just feel bad and pass out and sleep for a long, long time.


But yes, I think Xanax is best saved for actual panic attacks. Although the XR form seems to work, I think I would rather return to Klonapin again.

I think it makes complete sense to have both XR and IR Xanax. From what the OP said, he takes XR daily, and has the IR to take as break through relief for when the anxiety is really bad. What do you think?

Yeah.... exactly.. I do my absolute best to just wake up and as little as possible, which is usually two XRs (4mg) (I am prescribed up to 3 a day) and avoid touching any of my IRs, unless I absolutely need them.


- An example of why I have both is, for whatever reason, I may have been dehydrated (lithium doesn't help with this) but I was at my healthclub and after working out I went into the steamroom for a while which was very hot obviously. I was drinking plenty of water, and had been in there plenty of times with no problem, but all of a sudden I started to feel weird, and that dreaded feeling of the very beginning of a panic attack began to come on. I thought jumping in the cold shower, drinking more water and chilling out would work but it didn't.... my heart continued to beat faster and faster and things became more and more dissociative... anyone who has dealt with panic attacks knows how terrible/scary they are. ANYWAYS, my point is thank god I had brought some 2mg bars in my bag just in case and it saved me from an otherwise horrible night.

I mean I'm at Harvard and my psychiatrist resides there, not to sound like a douche, but he is no "florida pill dispensing doctor" in any means..... next week we are going to figure out what to do about benzos, because I definitely don't want to fall in the deep-end of Xanax....

 

[Cane2theLeft]

^that's the third consecutive post in a row I merged... if you want to add more please hit 'edit' instead of bumping your thread and posting again.

 

[slowpoke1967]

i agree with all but will add that i was on lithium also for a trial as this is what you do when your being treeted yer basically a guiney pig for pills.
And i also had several side effects from the lithium that you describe.
They ussualy keep you on a dose for 3 months unless you have sever side effects so i dont remember how long i was on it .
But i herd it was great and was happy to be trying it but it went bad for me i felt like crap.and once again had to switch.
Only to read that lithium realy is not the cure all drug peopple used to think it was...it side effects are drowsyness, dullness mentaly blurred vision, confusion etc...

 

[bluntedskier]

^that's the third consecutive post in a row I merged... if you want to add more please hit 'edit' instead of bumping your thread and posting again.

my bad man... I'm still a noob to this forum... my intention was not to keep bumping my thread - didn't realize you could merge like that. thanks



and yeah... I don't know what to do about Lithium. I have no severe side effects and my doc says that with even more time it will increasingly make my life better and better, but at the same time that mental dullness you mentioned is definitely there and is highly frustrating if you are trying to make anything out of yourself in life....

 

[Missykins]

OP--how long have you been on 1200 mg of lithium? When were your serum lithium levels last checked (you may be suffering from toxicity)? Lithium can cause hypothyroidism, which will make you feel dull, lethargic, and depressed.

Ask your doctor to check your lithium levels and to perform a thyroid panel (and a CBC/chem panel). He's not going to think that you're a know-it-all by asking.

Stop jacking with the Xanax dose and stay off the stimulants. And tell your doctor about what you've been doing. He's a psychiatrist and he's heard it all before. You're probably his easiest patient to deal with!

 

[bluntedskier]

OP--how long have you been on 1200 mg of lithium? When were your serum lithium levels last checked (you may be suffering from toxicity)? Lithium can cause hypothyroidism, which will make you feel dull, lethargic, and depressed.

It's possible that it's doing that to me.... but I just got my levels checked a couple weeks ago and they have never been over .7 / .8 which isn't near the toxic level.


Now my biggest problem seems to be the Xanax. We are beginning withdrawal... very hard doing this going from 8mg a day


Definitely staying away from the stimulants - just makes things 10x worse in several ways. Including forces me to take more Xanax.

Just hope I can get off all these pills soon. Well at least Xanax, then revuvaluate if I really need to be on Lithium at that point.

 

[macbrown21]

Hey blunted did you ever get my pm? Not sure if it went through. I was in a similar situation to you about 5-6 years ago. Was a little frustrated/down about my situation and anxious and it was suggested that I see a shrink. The guy tried me on all sorts of different anti-depressants, lithium and even seroquel. Really made me a lot worse. My chief complaint was anxiety and was never scripted benzos. Finally I got the doc to give me Xanax and it was a miracle drug. I ended up taking way too much because it was drastically improving things for me. Pretty soon my tolerance was so high I could take 5-6mg and get nothing but a mouthful of blue chalk.

It all ended when I was driving across the country and I left all my xanax in a hotel. Obviously I never got it back, ended up going into terrible WDs while I was driving. It was a real nightmare. I decided it was time to stop and was fortunate enough to find a doc in my new town too write me another script so I didn't have to go cold turkey. Tapered down in a 6 week period or so. I was usually at about 8mg a day and it really wasn't doing much for me besides keeping me outta WDs. The taper was still tough, the mental WDs of high dose xanax really suck. For awhile I was so anxious I really thought I was losing my mind. Anyways I don't take benzos anymore and I'm pretty happy about that. I still have anxiety problems, but for long term shit the xanax really does more harm than good. Hope you're feeling alright and stay away from the Adderall.

PS
I was a ski academy kid too awhile ago. Thought I saw you say that you were somewhere. Small world I guess....
With the weed thing I was smoking daily for years. I quit for about a year, had to take drug tests for my job. When I resumed smoking it caused huge anxiety and paranoia. Paranoid like I was on coke or something. I really didn't like it. After about a month of smoking a 4-5 times a week it got back to normal. I honestly thought I'd never be able to smoke comfortably again.

 

[theantiadult]

valium iz helpful and long acting.also kava helps alot with anxiety and its otc.

 

[jonny11007]

BluntedSkier,

How is your Xanax taper going? I've been following your posts and what not about wanting to get off of the Xanax. What type of taper are you doing? Did your psychiatrist switch you to some Valium along with the lower dose of Xanax?

 

[boxofcontradiction]

Your previous doctor is an idiot. Why on earth would he/she prescribe lithium to someone with severe anxiety? That stuff is supposed to be for delusional people only. IMO you should cut back on the lithium until your dosage is halved and slowly reduce your xanax dosage. 8-10mg a day is just nuts! I know there is supposed to be a huge difference between the ir and xr forms, but I didn't find that to be the case; the xr only seemed to last like 4 hours and I've taken it several times. Klonopin, on the other hand, has a 36 hour half-life and I only need to take it once every 24 hours.

 

[HlPPlE]

I'm not reading all that, but from the title i can safely suggest go to the doctor plz. Thanks again for participating.

 

[macbrown21]

Box, If you read my above post I was in the same boat.
A lot of docs prescribe Lithium for anxiety. They're so smart they think the anxiety is some deep rooted problem from you having mood swings and being depressed. (SARCASM) My problem was simple, some things made me anxious and it was affecting my work and personal life. When the docs started me on Lithium, then all the Antidepressants things became much much worse for we. I actually lost my job, never slept, stopped talking to my friends and family. They then put me on seroquel and I really thought I might have to be committed. Finally I found xanax and it was the only thing that could help and pretty soon I was just like the OP. Its honestly taking me over 5 years to get over what the lithium and all that other nasty junk did to me. I finally feel somewhat normal again, except now I actually have shit to be depressed about now that my life is pretty much ruined. I can deal with it though, if I started on those mood stabilizers/ads/aps again I don't know what would happen, it would be bad though. Lithium and Seroquel both almost made me completely lose it. And I'd tell the doctor and they'd say keep taking it, it takes a long time to start working. The whole time I was getting worse day by day. Those two made it hard for me to form coherent thoughts and speak them for a long time. Like I said finally just getting over it. I still have anxiety and some depression problems, but just dealing with them instead of taking those nasty drugs is definitely the better way to go. At least for me. The xanax is extremely helpful, only for short spurts though. (I don't take it anymore) Once you get up to those high doses/tolerance it really does nothing.

But yeah I think those doctors I was seeing were retarded. I've heard from some of my friends who went to med school; that pharmaceutical companies push seroquel really hard on the docs/hospitals. I think probably because of its ridiculous high price. That stuff is downright dangerous, I can't believe its even legal. Really altered the way I thought and spoke.

 

[chitown rollin]

I saw that you posted this before. GET OFF THE LITHIUM! and also taper down the alprazolam. xanax is in sooo many ways the devil, it will ruin your life like it is in the process of ruining mine. it's 8 am and i've already taken 1.5 sandoz bars and 1 mg dava alprazollam. it is a horrible path to take and SHAME ON YOUR DOC! he should not be in practice IMHO

 

[bluntedskier]

I finally had enough of the depending on Xanax bullshit and told my psych that i wanted to get off of it. I truly see how evil, dangerous and physically addictive it is. It would be one thing if it made me 'feel good' too... but it doesn't even have that aspect to it whatsoever.

His answer? "Why?"

like really?? fucking not letting my parents give anymore overcharged checks for thousands of dollars to this, in my opinion, superficially 'experienced' licensed psych/MD and fire his ass... going to the experts at one of the best hospitals in the world here and getting to the bottom of all this miserable pill popping lifestyle feel me?

So instead of doing what I again and again highly suggested - which was following a proper and medically proven chart of saftely and comfortably tapering.... he just yanked me off a 5 month habit of 6mg XR a day... to absolutely no alprazolam - instead replacing it with 80mg of diazepam a day. This didn't seem right to me...

He is very charismatic, friendly - the type of guy you'd like to have an expensive cocktail with (no homo) at the W with or a beer somewhere.. although I am extremely outspoken, very good at arguing my points in a very intelligent manner in which I usually win... for whatever reason with this guy, I don't know how it happens but he just ends up convincing me it's essentially 'all good' and then before I know it the "time is up."

So I don't have time to dive into the details of what happened... but any of those reading this who are informed about benzos can probably guess...

The implications were really fucked. Perfect timing for the start at a new school that I worked my ass off to get in as a VMA major. So he was right - I successfully was "off" Xanax for several weeks, I can't remember how long actually at all... but his "withdrawal" method of just yanking me off 6mg a day and putting me on a shitload of Valium straight up RUINED ME.

I would nod off in class here and there like an opiate addict. Trying to take notes swirling around me.. impossible. Anxiety was there but just muffled by the huge intake of shitty diazepam. Just miserable, anxious and depressed in general. Also, this makes me sound like a spoiled bitch and shit but it's really not like that or what I want - I gave up living near/on campus where I was at before.... to now driving into metropolitan downtown and having no choice but to park or get my car valeted at the Ritz pretty much everyday... so hard to wake up, get anywhere on time, so much money wasted, I was always late for all my classes (even after I figured out where they all were).

Started not giving a fuck about anything, which is the complete opposite of myself... including the things I enjoy doing both entrepreneurially and skiing and shit.

And weirdest of all, for like a 2 week period, I went straight alcoholic style.... which I have never done either. Sure I drank/drink more than is healthy like most undergrads do, but nothing too extreme, especially now that I'm older.

But on diazpam, I'd be drinking nips all the time... like the second I'd finish my classes (all in the evening) I'd get my car, pick up a bunch of nips or just like a half pint of Jager or Goose or whatever i felt like and just sit back turn the heat warmers on and blast music, enjoy my intoxicated 15 minute ride back home....

I stopped that however. Not a good path to go down haha.


---- Bottom line just rambled about all that shit but, what do you know, I was at the verge of having to drop out, parents already paid, and when there is only 2 months left of classes and i just got in here....

so at least for right now, I had no choice but to just go back to what I knew at least worked at let me function fine - 6mg Xanax XR a day... and thankfully my professors have been super understanding and are letting me catch up on the majority of the work/exams I missed due to my psychologist's fucking retarded judgment.

The second this semester is over, like I said, gona find the best people possible to work with me to correct all the mistakes that this doctor has plagued me with.

MD: "Hey, it was you who wanted to be off the Xanax... I was just doing as you said."


Me: "Yeah... but we're paying you to be the pharmacologist here, not me. At the end of the day, I can't write fucking prescriptions. You can.. and you do."

 

[BrokedownPalace]

Just a short note, when one wants to taper off of benzodiazepines such as xanax, the best and most effective way to do so is to switch over to a longer acting benzo such as diazapam(valium) . Doing the taper with xanax alone is too tough on the mind and much more prone to supplementing and fucking up the taper.

At the end of the day, you don't HAVE to do anything your doctor says. If you had the whole taper schedule and shit figured out on your own using xanax ,why didn't you just keep your mouth shut, continue getting xanax from him, and taper on your own? In my opinion diazapam is a MUCH gentler benzo, and also more effective for social/general anxiety. this is why it is used for tapering.

Look up the ashton's manual.

It just seems like you are very egotistical, and for some reason feel entitled to "the best professionals in the world to work on me". I think you need to get off the lithium, which is severely inflating your ego which you probably don't realize. Lithium is toxic garbage, and is gonna hurt you worse than the xanax you are on.