I am looking for some specific advice/info to help out a friend. Here is a high level summary to put the questions below in context: Heavy oxycodone user for 18 months (15 - 20 oxycodone 30mg's a day). Went to rehab two weeks ago and did a Subutex (the pill - not suboxone film) 7 day "blind detox" - then clean for another 7 days. foolishly started using again but at much lower levels (2-4 oxycodone 30's per day) for about the last 6 days. He wants to stop now before it gets out of control again - so acquired 5 - 8mg Subutex pills to do a short taper - he really really wants to quit for good and is very angry at himself for starting again. questions:
1. First detox was "blind" so don't know exact amounts of doses given - estimate a total of about 25 - 35mg of Subutex were used over 7 days starting with dose of about 4-6mg twice a day and tapering down to about .5mg on day 7. Does this sound reasonable? it was a fairly comfortable detox. Please take a look at the estimated schedule below and let me know if you think it's accurate/reasonable.
2. will having detoxed 2 weeks ago and the additional 7 days of no narcs and much lower use... make this second detox shorter/easier than the first?
4. Should a subutex detox even be needed to stop after only 6/7 days of use? it seems like that is not long enough to really get physically "addicted" again and suspect difficulty in stopping again is mostly psychological (which is still very powerful so not underestimating)?
5. Any recommendations for best schedule/method/doses for the 40 mg of subutex - number of days - starting dose, taper amount ...? is 40mg enough?
6. any other advice for this situation?
Blind Detox Details: The detox was a 7 day Subutex (the pill - not the Suboxone film) "Blind Taper" - meaning they crushed up the pill into powder form and did not tell you the amount you were getting. They gave the subutex twice a day - at 9am and 9pm. even though it was "Blind" you could estimate the amounts being given by looking at the crushed up powder - based on that, would estimate the 7 day detox went something like the below. if the estimates are correct - it would mean over the 7 day period you got a total of somewhere between 25 - 35mg of Subutex.
Day 1: 9am - nothing / 9pm - 4 - 6 mg
Day 2: 9am - 4mg / 9pm - 4mg
Day 3: 9am - 3-4mg/ 9pm - 3-4mg
Day 4: 9am - 2-3 mg / 9pm - 2-3 mg
Day 5: 9am - 1-2mg / 9pm - 1-2 mg
Day 6: 9am - .5 - 1mg / 9pm - nothing
Day 7: 9am - .5mg / 9pm - nothing
The first night was rough - unable to shut of brain/stop twitching ... could not sleep - felt terrible - but by about 9/10am on day 2, that all went away - just very tired and achy and no appetite but very bearable - by day 3/4 appetite came back and felt pretty decent - the last 2 days actually felt pretty good - only issue was it was tough to sleep. So with the exception of the first night - this was a relatively painless detox which was surprising based on amounts he was using - attribute rough first night to the dramatic shift from 20 0xy 30 a day to nothing but a few mg of Subutex. ...
1. First detox was "blind" so don't know exact amounts of doses given - estimate a total of about 25 - 35mg of Subutex were used over 7 days starting with dose of about 4-6mg twice a day and tapering down to about .5mg on day 7. Does this sound reasonable? it was a fairly comfortable detox. Please take a look at the estimated schedule below and let me know if you think it's accurate/reasonable.
2. will having detoxed 2 weeks ago and the additional 7 days of no narcs and much lower use... make this second detox shorter/easier than the first?
4. Should a subutex detox even be needed to stop after only 6/7 days of use? it seems like that is not long enough to really get physically "addicted" again and suspect difficulty in stopping again is mostly psychological (which is still very powerful so not underestimating)?
5. Any recommendations for best schedule/method/doses for the 40 mg of subutex - number of days - starting dose, taper amount ...? is 40mg enough?
6. any other advice for this situation?
Blind Detox Details: The detox was a 7 day Subutex (the pill - not the Suboxone film) "Blind Taper" - meaning they crushed up the pill into powder form and did not tell you the amount you were getting. They gave the subutex twice a day - at 9am and 9pm. even though it was "Blind" you could estimate the amounts being given by looking at the crushed up powder - based on that, would estimate the 7 day detox went something like the below. if the estimates are correct - it would mean over the 7 day period you got a total of somewhere between 25 - 35mg of Subutex.
Day 1: 9am - nothing / 9pm - 4 - 6 mg
Day 2: 9am - 4mg / 9pm - 4mg
Day 3: 9am - 3-4mg/ 9pm - 3-4mg
Day 4: 9am - 2-3 mg / 9pm - 2-3 mg
Day 5: 9am - 1-2mg / 9pm - 1-2 mg
Day 6: 9am - .5 - 1mg / 9pm - nothing
Day 7: 9am - .5mg / 9pm - nothing
The first night was rough - unable to shut of brain/stop twitching ... could not sleep - felt terrible - but by about 9/10am on day 2, that all went away - just very tired and achy and no appetite but very bearable - by day 3/4 appetite came back and felt pretty decent - the last 2 days actually felt pretty good - only issue was it was tough to sleep. So with the exception of the first night - this was a relatively painless detox which was surprising based on amounts he was using - attribute rough first night to the dramatic shift from 20 0xy 30 a day to nothing but a few mg of Subutex. ...
