Bupe suboxone's effect on sleep

[i are spectre]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21857500

"RESULTS: An antinociceptive dose of buprenorphine caused a significant increase in wakefulness (25.2% ) and a decrease in nonrapid eye movement sleep (-22.1% ) and rapid eye movement sleep (-3.1% ). Buprenorphine also increased electroencephalographic delta power during nonrapid eye movement sleep."

"CONCLUSIONS: Buprenorphine significantly increased time spent awake, decreased nonrapid eye movement sleep, and increased latency to sleep onset."

is this on par with other opiates or significant?

 

[Albion]

I find all opiates increase stimulation even if they make me feel sedate. Can't sleep on many of them, and if I do, the vividness of the dreams suggests that sleep is very light. There are very few drugs that actually promote good quality sleep. It's not enough just to be able to get to sleep.

 

[Shady Kaity]

YES. Thank god. I thought it was just me who couldn't sleep for shit on sub.

 

[opiatekrzy]

when i first got on suboxone, it did keep me "wired" and i couldnt sleep, very common and doctors are aware, my suboxone doctor at the time gave me trazadone and valium for sleep either/or . try taking your suboxone no later than 6pm to avoid insomnia..dont worry after awhile that will go away, i can take a sub and go right to sleep.sometimes i need it to sleep if i havent taken it in awhile-obv. sign of depednency

 

[Captain.Heroin]

I wanted to copy this out of the Suboxone/Buprenorphine Mega Thread v.14, as it is pertinent to this topic.

For myself, I have always had issues with hypersomnia/insomnia, starting at a young age, preceding drug use in my life. Because of this, I have never expected to have flawless sleep. I actually find myself sleeping at least 7 hours a day, and typically (but not always) get decent sleep.

After pondering what I typed below, I am now starting to think that as buprenorphine is not selective for the ORL-1 receptor, it makes sense to me that buprenorphine's action at the ORL-1 receptor is likely dose-mediated. When someone has taken an exceptionally large dosage of buprenorphine, it seems to me most likely that this is when the excessive amount of buprenorphine will spill over into the other receptors such as ORL-1. This is likely why too much buprenorphine is seriously unpleasant and dysphoric.

I believe the key to avoiding buprenorphine from negatively effecting your sleep is to ensure you will not be under the acute effects of buprenorphine when going to sleep (dose sublingually in the morning; or wait for the acute effects of your other-ROA buprenorphine dosage to wear thin), to be mindful of the dosage of buprenorphine you are using - and to continue tapering with it as you feel comfortable doing so, and to keep in mind that ideal sleep hygiene will go a long way.

edit: methods to reduce this problem? besides benzos. exercise and diet i suppose, any other non-addictive supplements? kava and valerian i suppose, but those can taste pretty gross and also wear off eventually.

My guess, is that an ORL-1 antagonist could help. I'm not sure if ORL-1 antagonists would have a greater affinity than buprenorphine for the ORL-1 receptor or not though.

It also seems that opiate tolerance may be connected to the ORL-1 receptor as well...

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J-113,397...

J-113,397 is an opioid analgesic drug which was the first compound found to be a highly selective antagonist for the nociceptin receptor, also known as the ORL-1 receptor.[1][2] It is several hundred times selective for the ORL-1 receptor over other opioid receptors,[3][4] and its effects in animals include preventing the development of tolerance to morphine[5], the prevention of hyperalgesia induced by intracerebroventricular administration of nociceptin (orphanin FQ),[6] as well as the stimulation of dopamine release in the striatum,[7] which increases the rewarding effects of cocaine,[8] but may have clinical application in the treatment of Parkinson's disease.[9][10][11]

hyperalgesia is an increased sensitivity to pain.

I also thought this would be of interest....

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ro64-6198...

Ro64-6198 is an nociceptoid drug used in scientific research. It acts as a potent and selective agonist for the nociceptin receptor, also known as the ORL-1 (opiate receptor like-1) receptor, with over 100x selectivity over other opioid receptors.[1] It produces anxiolytic effects in animal studies equivalent to those of benzodiazepine drugs,[2] but has no anticonvulsant effects and does not produce any overt effects on behaviour.[3] However it does impair short-term memory,[4] and counteracts stress-induced anorexia.[5][6] It also has antitussive effects,[7] and reduces the rewarding and analgesic effects of morphine, although it did not prevent the development of dependence.[8][9][10] It has been shown to reduce alcohol self-administration in animals and suppressed relapses in animal models of alcoholism, and ORL-1 agonists may have application in the treatment of alcoholism.[11]

This is likely connected to why people have to wait after having taken buprenorphine to use full agonist opiates; even in cases where a small-ish dosage of buprenorphine was consumed. This is very interesting.

 

[opiatekrzy]

^ VERY TRUE, unlike all other opiates, the higher the dose the more euphoric I FEEL, with suboxone it seems when i take more than 8mg, i get dysphoric, agitated, irritability, headache, restleness. why IDK, when i take high doses of any other opioid i feel the better. i generally try to take no more than 4mg per dose at a time..i can only handle 12mg of suboxone a day, any more i get dysphoric

 

[DooMMooD]

I totally agree with this. If I take my suboxone too late and I am not falling asleep. Even after months on my dose and becoming tolerant to it totally. If I take my subs after like 8 or 9 I am bouncing off the walls all fucking night, guaranteed.

Interesting a study says this.

And certain opiates would make me more energetic at certain doses. If I did enough though I always nodded out. But specifically oxycodone made me more energetic than any other opiate. Opana probably next, but thats also because I became tolerant to several opanas per day and needed them to function, so perhaps that was less a boost of energy and more removing sickness (although they still would give me energy in low enough bumps).

Conversely, hydroCODONE, morphine, and hydroMORPHONE were def the most sedating. Although opana was my fav I did enjoy these the most after, I even enjoyed hydrocodone more than oxycodone.

I think certain groups of opiates give more or less "energy" so to speak (especially with people who have opiates as their DOC): thebaine, codeine, morphine, etc w/e those groups are. give more or less subjective increases/decreases in "energy" or a desire to do things...almost more amphetamine like if I could compare it to anything, but in NO WHERE NEAR every other effect....just like that increase in motivation and desires and all that shit, idk i cant explain it any better.

Just some of my "theories"

 

[nycblueskie]

I find that suboxone helps me sleep better! It takes my mind off cravings and helps with the body aches and tossing and turning. Remember that suboxone is a very new drug and reacts different to every one

 

[i are spectre]

nycblueskie, what is your current dose / regime?

buprenorphine is seemingly more complex every year with new studies emerging on these different receptors. not to mention the metabolites effects, too.

the methy/t-butyl alcohol group and two carbon bridge causes some rather dramatic effects that are unseen in other opiates.

 

[opiatekrzy]

Oxycodone/oxycodone is indeed a TRUE stimulating opioid, i have the energy of one on adderall and mind state, minus the stimulation, it was like a stimulating smooth downer. but pay back is a bitch when it wears off. ya feel like bitch slapping everyone around u. lol. it's weird how i find methadone(though a heavier feeling, still stimulating me), oxy, and bupe stimulating too (after 5 yrs on suboxone it just keeps me feeling normal and mindset good, i can sleep on it, i prefer taking a good dose of suboxone before bed, i wake up in the middle of the nite with munchies and care free, and wake up happy and opiatey lovey feeling.

 

[StAy HiGh]

this explains a lot