Suboxone withdrawal or lack thereof

[schuchie]

I decided to see how long I could go without taking my suboxone and now it is 120 hours (5 going on 6 days) and I have not ONE symptom of withdrawal.
I was taking two 8mg film strips per day. 16 mg total.

This is insane after everything I have read.
I have been taking it for going on 6 years. It is the brandname. And I have taken drug tests every 3 months to prove I am on it and not selling it. So I know that I was getting the drug and not being duped by the drug companies
I am overweight so it may be an absorption thing.

I never felt any affects from the suboxone when taking it. Bo high no euphoria

But I was addicted to a lot of heavy duty nasty drugs 6 years ago, fentanyl, opium, soma and clonopine.
When I decided to get off them, the suboxone worked like a charm. I had
no withdrawal.
I had horrible RLS before the prior addiction and I took clonopine for it. But since then and through the suboxone treatment I havent felt it. And I promise, it was so bad I would go crazy until someone gave me something. RLS is not painful, but I wished it was because then I could treat it with aspirin.
you would think I would at least be experiencing that.
So whats the deal. Why am I not feeling any symptoms?

 

[SS373dOH]

Being that you are over weight, your metabolism is most likely on the slow side, buprenorphine can have a half life up to 72 hours, being that you took 16mg a day, most likely there's still some sub left on your receptors, although 5 days is pushing it. If you dont feel symptoms in the next week, youre an enigma, and should be thanking the heavens!


- SS373dOH Soul

 

[schuchie]

Yeah I know you're right but I have gone thru horrible withdrawals on the other meds. I mean vomiting ears ringing I dont want to live withdrawals
It was the reason I chose suboxone. I am terrified of withdrawals

 

[schuchie]

Since today is officially a week and still no symptoms I went to see my doctor and he said i may be one of those that "matured out" whatever that means...

 

[Prescottdave]

You are the exception and really it's hard to believe you have actually gone over a week with no physical symptoms. For the majority of individuals they suffer for months trying to get off with intense WD's. Many will experience strong acute symptoms. These can include vomiting and dehydration. I have found long term opiate replacement to create some of the worst withdrawals if stopped cold turkey. I find the Suboxone detox is very similar to methadone withdrawals. During my taper it would some times take a week for WD's to start from decreasing my dose. I felt WD's from decreasing as little as 250 mcg's during cessation of the last mg. These included slightly dilated pupils, sneezing, yawning and chills. Hopefully it will be easy and you will have a long and prosperous recovery. For me I found the individuals in my suboxone group who did not admit they experienced crippling withdrawals from stopping opiates usually went back out for more research. The path of excess leads to the palace of wisdom. There is no such thing as maturing out of acute WD's from 16 mg of bupe. Your not taking any other opiates at this time? Those can always cover withdrawals a bit. Things like Imodium kratom or tramadol can cover up symptoms. If you quit with no WD's after 6 plus years then i'm jealous. Look up the half-life of norbuprenorphine.

 

[Elthea]

I have gone through withdrawal from everything from hydro to morphine, and at 140 lbs, after a full 7 days, I had few withdrawal issues with buprenorphine. The first two days, I was very slightly nauseated, had a light headache and slept. On the fifth day, I was still testing positive, by the 7th day, I was tired, had some yawns, but was basically ok. I got zohydro on the 7th day, I was on the bupe for pain and insurance quit paying so I could no longer afford it, but if I'd been able to, I'd have gone back to it in a minute. It helped my pain and with basically no withdrawal, and no side effects, I was pleased. It has come out now as Belbuca for pain, and if insurance will cover it, I'll go back to it. Nobody hits you up for it! You find out who your friends are when you aren't a walking pharmacy!

 

[Prescottdave]

Belbuca is used for chronic pain management and is dosed at 75 mcg-300 mcgs . A standard dose is 300-400 mcg per day. Suboxone and subutex are dosed at 2-8 mg with a standard dose ranging between 8-12 mg per day. 12 mg would be roughly equal to 12,000 mcgs if I remember correctly. 12 mg is about equal to 60-80 mg of methadone. Belbuca is only approved to treat chronic pain by the FDA. Stopping 300 mcg of bupe is much different then stopping 16 mg. As well if an individual starts a long acting opiate pain medication on the 7th day of a bupe detox they will likely skip most of the acute WD's and then become dependent on the full agonist. The longer you use the sicker you get when you stop. There is no way around this fact no matter what opiate you take unless you are taking extremely small doses. Trying to get insurance to pay for Belbuca for ORT is not really possible as far as I understand.

 

[schuchie]

Thankyou to everyone that has gone on this journey with me. I really appreciate all your responses.
Because so many people like myself come here to get answers to this opiate situation, I am going to keep everyone up to date.
Well I lasted a full week. I will try again and see if I can go longer. In my state it is hard to get in a suboxone program because doctors are limited by the amount of patients they are allowed.
So i didnt want to lose my spot in case I needed it for pain. And that is exactly what happened. By day 7 the pain started up (I broke my neck and my shoulder twice)
I had to go in for a drug test and if I tested negative for suboxone, I would be kicked out of the program, so I started again. Now here's the strange part, you would have thought with a clean system I would have gotten at least a little high...I did not.
I also must admit I smoked a small portion of weed (1 or 2 hits at night) with a neighbor that had access. And I took 4 25mg of benedryl and 200mg of seroquel.
I am surprised my RLS never came back.
I had RLS for years before my accident, so it wasnt caused by withdrawals
Like I said, I plan on trying again, I will keep you posted and give a complete rundown of what I will be taking.

 

[Prescottdave]

Thankyou to everyone that has gone on this journey with me. I really appreciate all your responses.
Because so many people like myself come here to get answers to this opiate situation, I am going to keep everyone up to date.
Well I lasted a full week. I will try again and see if I can go longer. In my state it is hard to get in a suboxone program because doctors are limited by the amount of patients they are allowed.
So i didnt want to lose my spot in case I needed it for pain. And that is exactly what happened. By day 7 the pain started up (I broke my neck and my shoulder twice)
I had to go in for a drug test and if I tested negative for suboxone, I would be kicked out of the program, so I started again. Now here's the strange part, you would have thought with a clean system I would have gotten at least a little high...I did not.
I also must admit I smoked a small portion of weed (1 or 2 hits at night) with a neighbor that had access. And I took 4 25mg of benedryl and 200mg of seroquel.
I am surprised my RLS never came back.
I had RLS for years before my accident, so it wasnt caused by withdrawals
Like I said, I plan on trying again, I will keep you posted and give a complete rundown of what I will be taking.

If you are worried about getting kicked out of your Suboxone program because you are not going to test positive for bupe on your weekly UA's due to trying to quit sub you may want to rethink your taper plans. Trying to get off Suboxone is usually done over a long term period. A minimum of a month should be devoted to tapering if you have been on the medication for over 6 months at larger doses. As well your prescriber should be fully informed of your plan to taper so if you do happen to come in and test negative he will know why. Otherwise you could use that excuse every week to make yourself believe you have to keep taking your Suboxone. Their should be a clear understanding by your doc that you will not be cut off if you test negative when trying to get off suboxone. So if you fail your cold turkey detox you will not have to go back to using dope. If your doc is not willing to work with you in this manner then tapering/quitting under his care is going to be rather difficult. Either way props for testing the waters.

 

[Elthea]

I used it for pain. One of my docs, a psych, said the side effects of CII drugs were interfering with his treatment, and he could put me on first Suboxone, then generic bupe, and he could control my pain without CII side effects. I was on 24 mg a day. The Belbuca manufacturer can't tell you how to convert from bupe dosed that way to bupe dosed as Belbuca. Which is screwball, they can convert peolle from everything else. My pain doc knows the details, so hopefully will do the letter correctly. At this point, I can only pray. I don't want to do CII's forever, and the need to change or go up in dose is always around the corner. I didn't seem to get used to the bupe. Relief was as good on the last day as the first.

 

[schuchie]

Starting day 8 no symptoms

OK...so here I am trying again and I am entering day 8 with no symptoms.
If the weed is the solution, then that is just crazy. I mean why on earth is it illegal in some areas?
I have had some folks talking IBOGAINE which I could not do, taking an acid trip .8(.. nope... But everything I read about it is promising for folks that a:can afford it, B: tolerate a one day acid trip rife with withdrawals and c: dont have concerns about being picked up from the airport and driven to Mexico (Crossroads Clinic)
It is important you know I am being honest with my psyche doc. He is the one that suggests the weed is the reason i am not experiencing withdrawals. The insurance and medical board requires a positive sub result for me to stay on the program.
I dont want off the program per say, I just want to make sure the next time it takes 3 weeks to authorize the prescription, or if I cannot see my doc for whatever reason, I know what will happen.
And as Elthea wrote, some folks dont seem to have heavy withdrawal issues with subs
And isnt it a good idea that all data be given? Perhaps my plan can help another person. Personally, I am a lot less concerned about what ifs now. I think everyone should test themselves and see how far they can make it. We are all mortal. Shit happens. We may not be secure with what is going on around us, but we certainly can be secure with our responses.
There are a lot of people on this program and it is hard to get in in some areas. If my doctor dies, I would be up shits creek for a while before someone would allow me in the program.
This is a wonderful site I appreciate all of you.

 

[schuchie]

I followed your advice, I read up on the half life etc. So far so good. I understand folks having doubts...hell I would if I were reading this before I took the chance.
I have been waking up half drenched with sweat. So there's that. And I have a bit of pain today in my neck and shoulder.
But none of the horrific withdrawals I had getting off fentanyl, clonopine, soma and morphine. That was the worst thing I ever experienced. That happy dance happened in 1996. I went right back on everything because my partner worked in anesthesia and had munchausen's by proxy. She moved me up to the foothills of the white mountains and kept me sedated until 2010.
A friend finally took charge and took me in. He went thru hell and I bet regretted everyday as I vomited and fell apart. It was a 6 month seesaw of on again off again. Since I was in a different state, I could not find a doctor to keep prescribing. As a matter of fact everyone I tried was completely disgusted at the amount of drugs I was on. Finally a friend of my partners who was an anesthesiologist here talked to HIS friend and that turned out to be my sub doctor.
He guaranteed me no withdrawals from that horrific cocktail and he was right. I still find suboxone to be amazing. But I also know I was trading one problem for another.
I dont understand suboxone. I have never felt a high from it. So maybe that's why I am not feeling withdrawals.

 

[schuchie]

So disappointed I cannot continue into day 9.
The pain is horrible and frankly, I am quite surprised at the level of pain I was masking.
I am going to try and make it thru the night, so maybe day 9 will happen. I'll let you know. Just swallowed some aspirin.

 

[Prescottdave]

What doses of bupe are you trying to go COLD TERKEY from? If you are not really willing to commit to a basic taper you might try getting back on a lower dose each time you decide to go back onto sub. Maybe try speaking with your doctor and set up a plan to get off opiates if that is really your intention. Usually white knuckling it ends in pain and suffering but whatever works. Much of the pain you are experiencing is called rebound pain. It is not permanent but instead is related to WD or even post acute WD. It will lessen or pass with time.

Ibogaine clinics do not accept most people who are using buprenorphine. They will ask you to switch to a short acting full agonist opiate such as morphine for at least a month before taking the ibogaine. This is because the WD from bupe is extremely delayed and drawn out. As well the high affinity of bupe on the receptors is problematic when using ibogaine. Many people have reported that they have taken ibo to try and get off Sub and that after a week the WD returns. The fact that you do not feel high from buprenorphine is a major sign of extreme opiate tolerance and dependency. If you are able to take more then 2 mg of suboxone without vomiting and crawling around for 2 days you are most likely dependent on opiates and will experience some level of discomfort upon cessation of the medication.

The idea of Suboxone is to slowly lower your dose so you are able to handle the withdrawal. Your brain does not differentiate much between bupe and say morphine or fent aside from the half-life. SL bupe is 35-80 times more potent then oral morphine and TD bupe is equal in potency to TD fent. Waking up covered in sweat and having extreme rebound pain is a sign of early WD. Since you are hardly noticing your lack of WD's it should be no problem to just stop opiates completely for at least three weeks just to test yourself. At least then you will know what will happen if you run out or need a prior authorization for a second time.

 

[schuchie]

as i said 5 up from this:

I dont want off the program per say, I just want to make sure the next time it takes 3 weeks to authorize the prescription, or if I cannot see my doc for whatever reason, I know what will happen.
And as Elthea wrote, some folks dont seem to have heavy withdrawal issues with subs
And isnt it a good idea that all data be given? Perhaps my plan can help another person. Personally, I am a lot less concerned about what ifs now. I think everyone should test themselves and see how far they can make it. We are all mortal. Shit happens. We may not be secure with what is going on around us, but we certainly can be secure with our responses.

I just want to know what will happen. I also want to be in control and up til now did not feel like I was.
I do not want off the program, I just want to know what would happen.
I am so disappointed, I didnt make it a full 8 days or longer but the pain knocked me on my ass. So yeah, the suboxone is a primo pain reliever. For the first time, I got high from it. That was VERY different
The Ibogaine Crossroads program specwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwifically states bup addiction for its $30,000 5 day stay. It doesnt say you need to switch to a binding opiate. Since that isnt part of this anyhow, I would prefer to not get off subject and defend that aspect.

 

[spthegod]

I know this might sound sort of random, but SWIM has been on Subs for 10+ years. On and off... Anyways, SWIM finds that SWIM has to dose more often when SWIM don't have RC benzo in system (small benzo or weed) but SWIM has been substituting RC benz and SWIM said they dont notice the WD's like 10 hrs after does anymore! SWIM used to stat sweating after just 4 hours.... Not sure if its because SWIM is like SUPER relaxed on the RC or whatever but damn it gets the job done for less dosing of sub for SWIM.

 

[Prescottdave]

I know this might sound sort of random, but SWIM has been on Subs for 10+ years. On and off... Anyways, SWIM finds that SWIM has to dose more often when SWIM don't have RC benzo in system (small benzo or weed) but SWIM has been substituting RC benz and SWIM said they dont notice the WD's like 10 hrs after does anymore! SWIM used to stat sweating after just 4 hours.... Not sure if its because SWIM is like SUPER relaxed on the RC or whatever but damn it gets the job done for less dosing of sub for SWIM.

We don't use swim here as it offers zero legal protection as is extremely irritating to read.

 

[Prescottdave]

as i said 5 up from this:

I dont want off the program per say, I just want to make sure the next time it takes 3 weeks to authorize the prescription, or if I cannot see my doc for whatever reason, I know what will happen.
And as Elthea wrote, some folks dont seem to have heavy withdrawal issues with subs
And isnt it a good idea that all data be given? Perhaps my plan can help another person. Personally, I am a lot less concerned about what ifs now. I think everyone should test themselves and see how far they can make it. We are all mortal. Shit happens. We may not be secure with what is going on around us, but we certainly can be secure with our responses.

I just want to know what will happen. I also want to be in control and up til now did not feel like I was.
I do not want off the program, I just want to know what would happen.
I am so disappointed, I didnt make it a full 8 days or longer but the pain knocked me on my ass. So yeah, the suboxone is a primo pain reliever. For the first time, I got high from it. That was VERY different
The Ibogaine Crossroads program specwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwifically states bup addiction for its $30,000 5 day stay. It doesnt say you need to switch to a binding opiate. Since that isnt part of this anyhow, I would prefer to not get off subject and defend that aspect.

Maybe try stopping sub for three weeks to see how your body reacts. It should be a walk in the park. Call up the ibo clinic if your interested in their treatment and see what their medical protocol is for bupe. Many will take bupe patients but after calling you will find out that it's mandatory to switch to a short acting full agonist opiate. If they do detox people straight from Sub they are scammers as this protocol I am speaking of is almost universally used at Ibo clinics. Many advertise for bupe addiction but their doctors will put you on short acting opiates for a number of really good reasons that also correlate to what you are experiencing when you stop the 16 mg of Sub. Here is a clinic that works with clients on Suboxne while addressing their medical protocol in the literature. They switch clients to oxy for at least 45 days before intake. Very interesting in relation to long drawn out periods of post WD symptoms that you are dipping your toes into. http://www.ibogainetreatment.consulting/#!ibogaine-suboxone/xxqnc

$30,000 for 5 days of ibo treatment is $15,000 to much. First sign of complete and utter quackery in my opinion.