Opioids Suboxone Taper Questions. Need Advice

[R3hab]

Hello Everyone,

I've recently been working hard on tapering my suboxone dose down to a acceptable daily dose.
My taper plan is to drop by 2mg every two weeks, so far it has been going very smoothly all things considered.
When I began my taper I was at 24mg daily for almost 3 years, I am now at 10mg daily and I am working with my doctor to taper down to 2mg in the next two months.
Usually I will begin to feel very slight withdrawal symptoms the first 3-4 days after my dose drop afterwards it seems to balance out and I feel good again.
I feel like I am beginning to reap the rewards from my taper, as I feel much better then when I was on 24mg a day. Also my libido is starting to come back which is fantastic!!

So with that said, I have a few questions to people who have tapered off subs or who are currently tapering.

1) A couple months ago my doctor did blood tests and found that my testosterone was very low. So he put me on andro-gel which i felt great the first couple days but after I felt as if I had "crashed". So I stopped the andro-gel and I am feeling better. My question is will my test levels increase naturally the lower I taper my subs?

2) For people who have tapered down from a higher dose, What are the benefits you notice?

3) I am also on Remeron (30mg) and my plan is to bring my sub dose down to 2mg per day and begin to taper my remeron. Is this a good plan?

4) I heard that the real taper begins when you get to 2mg and less per day, is this true?

Thank you all for taking the time to read this, and any advice you can offer me would be greatly appreciated.

-R3hab

 

[Demigodz4Life]

Yes, in a study they did with a bunch of asian addicts, they found testosterone levels to return to normal after a month of abstinence.

I can't really speak to a taper, but I can say that being off of them, the difference is night and day. Emotional response is more on par with humans, sleep quality improves, cognitive and memory impairments disappear. Down side is cravings return, with a vengeance.

I didn't know remeron needed to be tapered, so I'll just be quite on this question.

Yes the 2mg mark seems to be the key. In fact, not to discount all the work you've done, but I was able to drop from 16 mg/day to 2 in less than a week. But anything Lower than that was pretty difficult.

 

[R3hab]

Thank you for you response. If anyone else has anything to add I am all ears.

 

[Demigodz4Life]

Just to add to my rapid drop, it seems from talking to other people that this is possible when not ob suboxone for that long, like 6 months. My buddy has been on it for years, and feels a mg drop at 8 mg, so it seems like the longer you're on it, the harder smaller drops are. Good luck and you'll be so thankful when you're finally off of it.

 

[R3hab]

Just to add to my rapid drop, it seems from talking to other people that this is possible when not ob suboxone for that long, like 6 months. My buddy has been on it for years, and feels a mg drop at 8 mg, so it seems like the longer you're on it, the harder smaller drops are. Good luck and you'll be so thankful when you're finally off of it.

Thanks bro, I have been on it for what I guess would be considered a long time. But don't get me wrong, it has helped me to lead a "normal" and productive life. But just like with anything, all good things have to come to a end. I am a very determined person when I want something, and I want off these meds more then anything.

 

[speedballs_over]

You will prevail. Sounds like everything is going as normal, except the odd reaction to Androgel. Are you sure it was the Androgel and not a drop in Suboxone or other med added/subtracted around the same time? Asking b/c I have tolerated both Testim and Androgel quite well and find it essential to my recovery and many the things male. I've lost my beer gut, put on muscle weight, dropped fat in other places and increased my sex drive and performance significantly.

You need blood tests b/f (obviously you've had this) and regularly (maybe 4x year) during treatment. This is to be sure your levels are in a pre-determined range that is said to be normal, in the cheap test that is usually run those numbers (in the US) are usually in the ranges of low normal: 300/350 to high normal: 700/800. These test should also look at your liver and if your over 40 probably should have a PSA test if your on it for long.

I took mine from <250 to ~550 with Androgel and I feel much better. Apply with clean hands! Apply to clean skin, many substances will transfer across the skin barrier along with your Androgel. I've wondered what would happen if I added 2-mg Etiz to my Androgel for a day and rub on my skin...

I don't recommend that!

I hope this helps your low-T issues, or maybe your T levels have already returned to normal and you were getting too much or you may not tolerate exogenous testosterone. You could try a different brand, I'd recommend Testim, I think there may be a generic for Testim or it's in the development pipeline.

 

[NotMe2]

Everyone has their own Opinion.... but it's a proven fact.... if you REALLY want too be drug free... then you are going to be drug free.... I was on Methadone prescribed by a quack pain management physician for 4 years.... he continually upped the dose, and yes, it was euphoric.... but I decided I had enough!!! I never sought "help", i took myself off the damn stuff.... was it easy? Hell no, did I think I was going too die at times... of course.... it's just like anything else, it's all in the willpower.... if you want something bad enough, you are going to get it.... don't use I cannot take withdrawals as an excuse, it's just that.... and excuse.... withdrawals suck, but why seek another drug to get off one drug??? that don't even make common sense..... make up your mind what you want and then do it.... I just buried my best friend because she just couldn't get that monkey off her back, every time I would see her, her excuse was.... I just can't let it go.... she could not let it go because she didn't want too let it go... .her drug of choice meant more too her than her own son.... she chose too get high over being a mother.... now she has no problem what so ever getting clean, she was planted 6 feet deep yesterday..... keep making excuses and your family can cry over your casket too...

 

[Ruby Slippers]

I used hydros after l jumped off of the sub and l was down to a half mg a day. I was only on the sub for a year but yes it made me capable of getting over the harder drugs. I am now a week off of everything and l feel great. Just listen to your body, take it as slow as you need to and you will be free.

 

[insidious]

The taper gets difficult at 2mg. I didn't want to wait, because I tried the taper method in the past and its really mentally straining. My doctor gave me an opiate antagonist at 2mg which sent me into precipitated withdrawals, which was the intent. The withdrawals were complete hell but at least I got the bupe out of my system as quickly as possible. If you really want to taper just make sure you have a support system, it gets hard feeling like shit for months on a long taper under the 2mg mark. Suboxone has its demons, the PAWS really start to wear on you.

The good news is once you are off you will realize you are a better person without any maintenance drugs. Suboxone is sort of like putting a band aid on the real problem. Good Luck.

 

[psilocybinsane]

Yeah ive been on sub for two months, started at 16mg daily and now i am at 4mg.

Im kinda stuck here guys, when Ive taken 2mg before, on day 2 of taking it I can't sleep for shit that night. I just take the other 1/4 strip and I'm asleep in 30 minutes.

I was doing about 7-8 tenths of a gram of decent tar a day, but I imagine by now that my body is adjusted to the bupe...

So my question is it all mental? Should I just make the drop? Would it be feasible to only drop by 1mg?

 

[R3hab]

Yeah ive been on sub for two months, started at 16mg daily and now i am at 4mg.

Im kinda stuck here guys, when Ive taken 2mg before, on day 2 of taking it I can't sleep for shit that night. I just take the other 1/4 strip and I'm asleep in 30 minutes.

I was doing about 7-8 tenths of a gram of decent tar a day, but I imagine by now that my body is adjusted to the bupe...

So my question is it all mental? Should I just make the drop? Would it be feasible to only drop by 1mg?

I think you could drop by 1mg, but it will be easier with subutex to evenly devide the dose. For instance going from 2mg to 1mg is a 50% drop which is going to be felt much more than say 24mg to 22mg. But it still can be done as I said usually it takes me 3-4 days after the drop to balance out. Good luck to you tho and thanks everyone.

 

[psilocybinsane]

Thanks man. All I know is that my quality of life has drastically improved since starting suboxone.

Yeah I wish I was on subutex, for a few different reasons but its irrelevant now. The treatment center I attend will ONLY rx the strips. I asked for tablets and my counselor said they wont, in any case, rx anything other then name brand strips.

The strips are wicked expensive here, and there are many people who are uninsured, on the streets, with a habit and they are fucked. There are other maintenance programs, but they are equally expensive.

I dont know much about the doctor world but I'm sure my clinic receives some sort of "funding" from reckitt benckiser. Whether it's happening or not, it would be a very sleazy way of doing business. opioid addiction is no joke, its life and death shit.

 

[R3hab]

I just wanted to take this chance to thank everyone for their advice and support. Really means alot to us people who are working hard on getting our freedom from Rx's. Thank you.

-If anyone has anything to add, please do so. The more the better

-r3hab

 

[mankind]

I Cold Turkeyd from 16mg, WHILE Cold Turkying off an outrageous benzo habit. I had 2 grand mal seizures. The first month was hell. I literally had to learn how to speak, walk, and move again. I think that was more from the benzos though. Me personally, I would just get down to 2mg then hop off. If I can handle 16mg, WHILE a CT 60-80mg benzo habit (yes, sixty to eighty mg xanax habit), trust me you can handle the jump from 2mg. I was on for prob 6 years too.

 

[Zerwas]

^But it is still not advised to jump off at that dose. Your experience is certainly out of the ordinary. For OP I would say tapering down to at least 0,5mg, better 0,25mg would be the best option.
Also get your hands on some Gabapentin or Lyrica, they help a lot during withdrawls.

The good news is once you are off you will realize you are a better person without any maintenance drugs. Suboxone is sort of like putting a band aid on the real problem. Good Luck.

I can only second this. When I kicked last year I felt better (after the WDs of course) than ever before under the influence and I know that I am a better human being when sober.
Still this did not prevent me relapsing...but all the best to you OP!

 

[R3hab]

I just wanted to say thanks to every one who took the time to offer their two cents. As for me I am now on 4mg daily going strong, it hasn't been easy but it is well worth the struggle. I see my doctor again soon and we will work on coming down from 2mg to nothing. I may regret being on bupe for so long but I also realize that it has helped me tremendously. Anyone else who has had similar experiences feel free to post.

 

[Money7612]

I was on subutex for a little over four years and I went to rehab but before I went I tapered down from doing 24 mg a day to only doing 2 mg a day over a few months time and then I went to rehab for 30 days.i did a 7 day taper plan and then that was it but needless to say I had withdrawals from subs(beup) for over 2 months

 

[Money7612]

Mankind no offense to you and I'm not trying to call you a liar but ain't no way you were doing 16 mgs of sub and an outrageous number of Xanax every single day and just up and quit cold turkey.. You may have done subs and Xanax every now and then and quit cold turkey but ain't no way you quit cold turkey while doin not only 16 mgs of sub everyday but also Xanax over a a few weeks,months, years time period. You could do it with professional help like rehab but not on your on. I tapered down to 2 mg a day after doing 24mgs a day for 4 years and when I quit I withdrawald from them for over 2 months straight and I felt like I was dying..so nah ain't no way you done that

 

[SKL]

1) A couple months ago my doctor did blood tests and found that my testosterone was very low. So he put me on andro-gel which i felt great the first couple days but after I felt as if I had "crashed". So I stopped the andro-gel and I am feeling better. My question is will my test levels increase naturally the lower I taper my subs?

Possibly

2) For people who have tapered down from a higher dose, What are the benefits you notice?

Fuller emotional range, increased sex drive, less constipation

3) I am also on Remeron (30mg) and my plan is to bring my sub dose down to 2mg per day and begin to taper my remeron. Is this a good plan?

I wouldn't do both at the same time. Sleep is a potential problem in tapering suboxone. When I was doing the last few fractions of an mg, it was something like a fifth of hard liquor, 2mg of Ativan, and 100mg vistaril just to get to bed. You'll need all the help you can get.

4) I heard that the real taper begins when you get to 2mg and less per day, is this true?

Oh god yes.
You can probably decrease an mg every few days painlessly but once it gets about 2mg it gets really hairy, and exponentially worse the lower the dose goes
A lot of doctors do not appreciate this
You'd do best to go down to .1mg increments before you hit zero tbh