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Opioids Suboxone dosage for detox

oxyaddict05

oxyaddict05

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 24, 2007
Messages
168
Hey all, long time since I been on here.

Anyways, a buddy of mine is trying to kick a 0.5 gram a day heroin habit. She has only been using for a little under a year, and has 12mg of suboxone. I was on subs for a year, so I am unfamiliar with using it for a short 4 or 5 day detox.

What do you guys think the best and most efficient tapering schedule would look like? I was thinking something like this over 5 days:

Day 1: 4mg
Day 2: 3mg
Day 3: 2mg
Day 4: 2mg
Day 5: 1mg

But with a mean half-life of 37 hours, maybe it should look a little different?

I started myself at 28mg. Or maybe it was 26? Regardless, I only really know suboxone in high doses so I have no idea how effective it will be at the lower end of the spectrum.

I know this is subjective, but on a scale of 1-10, 1 being cold turkey and 10 being a recent shot of fine quality dope, where do you think she will be with that sort of detox? It's her first detox so I am hoping that it is enough to get her through it.

I appreciate your time.
 
I don't know much about tapering or detoxing from opioids stronger than hydrocodone or Poppy Seed Tea (oral morphine, 50% of it anyways), but I'll tell you that the three 8mg suboxones my friend sold me helped so much in tapering over the last month when I ran out of hydrocodone rx and ran out of money for seeds, at 1lb PST a day.

I started at 1.6mg sublingual with a 0.75lb PST, then to 1mg SL with 0.75lb PST, 1mg SL with 0.5mg PST (finally down to a single bag of seeds! :)), 1mg SL, 0.8mg SL, 0.8mg SL, you get the idea, now I'm taking it once every 2-3 days and I still have 2mg from the 24mg I picked up about a month ago... you can really make your subs stretch out especially if you dose it properly from the get go, which means leaving room on your receptors for some norbuprenorphine (full agonist metabolite), instead of saturating it with > 4mg SL doses or > 1.5mg IV doses; bupe is a very competitive partial agonist due to its extremely high affinity for the Mu opioid receptors, knocking full agonists with lower affinities, such as norbuprenorphine or oxycodone, off the MOReceptors.

On that note, your dosing schedule looks good to me, but like I said, I've never dosed bupe that high since I've never cold-turkey kicked an opiate - I am somewhat obsessive about researching every drug I put in my body and opiates are one drug family that I try to stay resourceful with ordering Kratom and buying poppy seeds and whatnot, since you never know when your doc's gonna cut you off or when you're going to lose your source of opiates.
 
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Not sure if your friend has gone on subs yet, but detoxing from .5mg of heroin/day with only 12mg of suboxone is not going to be easy. It will help with the withdrawals, but she'll have a very difficult time regardless. I would suggest you stretch out the time period from 5 days to 10 days, halving the dosages you indicated above for each group of two days (instead of day 1 at 4mgs, do both days 1 and 2 at 2mgs). Suboxone is STRONG. If she's not withdrawing and can handle a more aggressive decrease, I would do it. The biggest trick is going to be holding on to the subs long enough for her brain to recuperate from the heavy opiate usage during the course of a year. This can take weeks/months. Stretch is as much as possible. Good luck.
 
I am currently going through the EXACT same situtation, trying to kick a 1/2g heroin habit with subs. It has been 7 hrs since I shot dope and I'm already starting to not feel so hot. I am going to wait to morning to take my first sub dose though because I do not want to go into pws.. Anyways, I have 24mg of sub so I think it'll be enough to keep me comfortable. Anyways, I have detoxed on less before and been fine.

Instead of a 5 day taper (fuck 10!) I would suggest a 3 day taper. For 12mg I'd dose like this:
Day 1: 6mg throughout the day in 2mg increments
Day 2: 4mg in 2mg increments
Day 3: 2mg

I have used this method a few times and felt perfectly fine on day 4 which was the first day off of everything. The only part that really sucks is waiting to take your first dose of sub. Good luck with your detox, hope you are able to stay clean!
 
Subs are a very strong drug & you need to be committed to detoxing if your going this route. Otherwise a whole bunch of unpleasantness could ensue. Taken to early after your DOC you could go into precipitated withdrawls. On the other hand if you do successfully induct yourselve onto subs & go back to your DOC right after the subs run out you will get severely diminished results from your DOC till the subs clear your system. Subs can get you where you want to go but they can also kick your ass right back to your DOC. The main thing is to slowly dose your way up to feeling ok with the subs, like 1 to 2mg an hour max. Then once you find your stable dose to slowly dose down & off the subs dropping a mg a day until you reach 2mg then drop 1/2mg the next couple days. You may even want to make the last doses 1/4mg.
 
ErgicMergic said:
I don't know much about tapering or detoxing from opioids stronger than hydrocodone or Poppy Seed Tea (oral morphine, 50% of it anyways), but I'll tell you that the three 8mg suboxones my friend sold me helped so much in tapering over the last month when I ran out of hydrocodone rx and ran out of money for seeds, at 1lb PST a day.

I started at 1.6mg sublingual with a 0.75lb PST, then to 1mg SL with 0.75lb PST, 1mg SL with 0.5mg PST (finally down to a single bag of seeds! :)), 1mg SL, 0.8mg SL, 0.8mg SL, you get the idea, now I'm taking it once every 2-3 days and I still have 2mg from the 24mg I picked up about a month ago... you can really make your subs stretch out especially if you dose it properly from the get go, which means leaving room on your receptors for some norbuprenorphine (full agonist metabolite), instead of saturating it with > 4mg SL doses or > 1.5mg IV doses; bupe is a very competitive partial agonist due to its extremely high affinity for the Mu opioid receptors, knocking full agonists with lower affinities, such as norbuprenorphine or oxycodone, off the MOReceptors.

On that note, your dosing schedule looks good to me, but like I said, I've never dosed bupe that high since I've never cold-turkey kicked an opiate - I am somewhat obsessive about researching every drug I put in my body and opiates are one drug family that I try to stay resourceful with ordering Kratom and buying poppy seeds and whatnot, since you never know when your doc's gonna cut you off or when you're going to lose your source of opiates.
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How do you split 3 x 8mg subs down into all those smaller doses ? This could be the key for me getting off opis, i can get hold of 3 x8mg, but i wouldnt be able to source 4mg and 3mg and 2mg and 1mg as neat as that. Are they pills, or some other form ? :?
 
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mydrugbuddy said:
How do you split 3 x 8mg subs down into all those smaller doses ? This could be the key for me getting off opis, i can get hold of 3 x8mg, but i wouldnt be able to source 4mg and 3mg and 2mg and 1mg as neat as that. Are they pills, or some other form ? :?
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The strips are a lot easier to create smaller doses of. You can just cut them and get as small of pieces as you want. The pills are a bit harder but if you get a pill cutter, you can get them down to pretty small pieces too.
 
subutex is only bupe, no naloxone. go with the same dosing advice as suboxone. IMO its best to start low and keep taking low doses until you feel stable..
 
mydrugbuddy said:
Right, thanks,. but bupe has the same agonist and antagonist properties doesnt it ? (so does suboxone have nalaxone too ? naloxone is like an 'antidote to opioids ?)
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Yes they're precisely the same, as next to no naltrexone from the suboxone is absorbed sublingually, submucosally nor orally. The reason why naltroxene exists in the suboxone products is to avoid addicts from successfully injecting the film/tablet, as they will enter withdrawals almost instantaneously. I have heard that, upon having buprenorphine in your system for quite some time, the naltrexone will have little to no antagonist effects; this makes it very hard for people to treat suboxone overdose, and they usually rely on manual respiration to keep the victim breathing normally until regaining consciousness.
 
There are a lot of theories on what the best course for bupe dosing is. Most doctors build your dose up as high as it needs to go until you are stabilized and in no withdrawal, then keep you on that dose for as long as you want, before beginning to taper you down.

Personally, I think it's best to be on as little bupe as necessary for you and stay on it for a short a time as possible, because the longer you are on it.. the harder it becomes to get off. Then once you start tapering after a month or so of being stabilized, come off at a very very low dose. <1mg and preferably <.5mg's.
 
Mr.Scagnattie said:
There are a lot of theories on what the best course for bupe dosing is. Most doctors build your dose up as high as it needs to go until you are stabilized and in no withdrawal, then keep you on that dose for as long as you want, before beginning to taper you down.

Personally, I think it's best to be on as little bupe as necessary for you and stay on it for a short a time as possible, because the longer you are on it.. the harder it becomes to get off. Then once you start tapering after a month or so of being stabilized, come off at a very very low dose. <1mg and preferably <.5mg's.
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Thanks for that. Very helpful info.

Some people say when you start taking bupe, you leave it as long as possible, until the wds from your previous opiate start getting really bad.

Others say you can start taking bupe at tiny doses whilst you're still feeling the effects of the other opiate that you've taken for the last time, and are trying to get off.

What do you think Mr.Scagnattie ?
 
mydrugbuddy said:
Thanks for that. Very helpful info.

Some people say when you start taking bupe, you leave it as long as possible, until the wds from your previous opiate start getting really bad.

Others say you can start taking bupe at tiny doses whilst you're still feeling the effects of the other opiate that you've taken for the last time, and are trying to get off.

What do you think Mr.Scagnattie ?
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Taking small amounts of bupe like that with opiates still in your system to get your body acclimated to it slowly and thus avoid precipitated withdrawals, is possible... but the doses have to be very very tiny otherwise you're going to be thrown into withdrawals instantly and it's going to be horrible. It also tends not to work if you have a larger sized habit.

In my opinion, bupe works best when taken after waiting as long as you possibly can and being as sick as you can possibly handle. Everyones metabolism being different, some of us don't need to wait as long as others to be in full withdrawal and thus be able to safely take bupe and avoid PW's, while others need to wait 36 hours +. For me, I can start taking bupe about 12-15 hours after my last dose of opiates. The first day is always pretty rough though while my body is getting used to the change.

Thats the traditional and recommended way to start bupe. There are a lot of different ways addicts attempt to induce themselves onto it so they avoid having to wait any length of time in withdrawal before taking it. Some work, some don't, some work only for certain people in certain situations, etc.
 
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