Bupe Suboxone and Benzodiapines

[Pill__Head]

SO with suboxone only being a partial agonist, Is it true that mixing benozs with you subs wouldn't be NEARLY as dangerous as mixing Methadone/benzos ( due to Buprenorphine being a 'partial agonist', and not seeming to cause even close to the CNS depression that comes from Methadone { from personal experience} ).

I know obviously it isn't the best idea to mix ANY opiates and Benzos, but it happens, and its going to keep happening.. So in regards to harm reduction, does anyone know the answer to my question?

Thanks all!

P.S. EXCUSE THE TITLE TYPO " BENZODIAZEPINES".

 

[Crankinit]

In short, yes, as long as you have a tolerance. If your tolerance is low enough that you can still take 1 - 8mg and still get a nod, then mixing benzos is gonna be dangerous like any other opiate (although probably not quite as dangerous as methadone, which is particularly bad for respiratory depression). But if you're on maintenance, or otherwise have a tolerance don't get a full opiate high from bupe, then yes it should be a fair bit safer, relatively speaking.

 

[Pill__Head]

Thanks for the reply, just what I was expecting to hear. and Yeah I don't get any effects or feels from any dose of Bupe i take, whether it be 1mg or 24mg... no high, no nod, no nothing, no difference.

Thanks!

 

[Tommyboy]

You are correct in that bupe + benzos is not as dangerous as methadone + benzos. I believe that in the event of a suboxone / benzo overdose they actually use a medication to counteract the benzos rather than using narcan. This is also due to the fact that suboxone overdoses are difficult to treat with narcan due to the stronger affinity of buprenorphine.

 

[RTrain]

Yeah flumazenil, not nearly as well known as naloxone, but it is given in any cirmumstance where naloxone does not bring a suspected OD to an alert state. But, problem is its not used in pre-hospital care, which I find odd. I have not done much research on the risks it could pose, but it seems like something that is reasonable to carry on ambulances when the combo of alcohol and benzos is responsible for many OD deaths.

 

[Crankinit]

^I remember reading about it a while back, and iirc. it has a wider side effect profile, and is much more dangerous to use since benzo withdrawals are so much more dangerous than opiate withdrawals. Someone hit with a shot of narcan is going to feel like shit for 2 or 3 hours, but barring the odd bizarre case, they'll survive the process. But using flumazenil on someone with a serious benzo dependence could trigger major seizures and all other kinds of serious problems, which means the dose has to be carefully and constantly monitored. That's why they only use it in hospitals, and only in limited situations. An ambulance often has no way of knowing how dependent the individual is on the drug in question, and could easily misjudge the dose and make the problem even worse.

 

[Jesusgreen]

I think the key factor in such mixes is more tolerance and dosage than which opiate or which benzo is in the mix. Yes a mix with Buprenorphine is safer than with a full agonist (provided the dosage is correct) and you'll often see people with prescriptions for both Buprenorphine and some benzo - but it's important to remember that with little tolerance any such mix can be dangerous, and that with tolerance you still need to know what dosage of each substance is right for you without making the combination too strong and straying into the danger zone.

If you aren't a beginner user and you're going to mix the two anyway then yes it's probably a good idea to use Buprenorphine rather than a stronger opiate/opioid. It's worth going for one of the weaker benzos too, some of the weaker benzos actually mix amazingly well in terms of euphoria while adding less to the sedation and CNS depression, making it a safer combination. Diazepam in my experience is one of the easiest to mix with opis and potentiates the CNS depression a lot less than some of the more sedative benzos (i.e. Midazolam, Temazepam, or even Alprazolam).

Still, even if you have tolerance, be careful with such combos, and you shouldn't dose the two at once - better to wait until you peak on the Buprenorphine, then dose a fraction of your intended benzo dose, wait for that to peak, and redose until you're where you want to be - since benzos can be redosed easily without any noticeable acute tolerance this makes you much less likely to hurt yourself and doesn't come with any loss over dosing all at once.

Be careful whatever you choose to do

 

[Pill__Head]

I think the key factor in such mixes is more tolerance and dosage than which opiate or which benzo is in the mix. Yes a mix with Buprenorphine is safer than with a full agonist (provided the dosage is correct) and you'll often see people with prescriptions for both Buprenorphine and some benzo - but it's important to remember that with little tolerance any such mix can be dangerous, and that with tolerance you still need to know what dosage of each substance is right for you without making the combination too strong and straying into the danger zone.

If you aren't a beginner user and you're going to mix the two anyway then yes it's probably a good idea to use Buprenorphine rather than a stronger opiate/opioid. It's worth going for one of the weaker benzos too, some of the weaker benzos actually mix amazingly well in terms of euphoria while adding less to the sedation and CNS depression, making it a safer combination. Diazepam in my experience is one of the easiest to mix with opis and potentiates the CNS depression a lot less than some of the more sedative benzos (i.e. Midazolam, Temazepam, or even Alprazolam).

Still, even if you have tolerance, be careful with such combos, and you shouldn't dose the two at once - better to wait until you peak on the Buprenorphine, then dose a fraction of your intended benzo dose, wait for that to peak, and redose until you're where you want to be - since benzos can be redosed easily without any noticeable acute tolerance this makes you much less likely to hurt yourself and doesn't come with any loss over dosing all at once.

Be careful whatever you choose to do

Well I only have access to Etizolam, so that is the benzo I use..I wish I lived in a area that was more populated so i had access to street drugs. I gotta use the internet or go on a day trip just to pick up any sort of drug that I want. But thankfully im on maintenance so, I no longer have to make those day long trips to pick up dope...thank god.

Anyways, thanks for all the input, it is all very true and I'm on the same page as you totally. I am a pretty cautious and educated person when it comes to most drugs, esp. the ones I consume. I also have quite the tolerence to both benzos and opiates. I can handle up to 10mgs alprazolam is I want to get a little funky. and opiates....120mgs methadone/day was what I as on before switching to bupe.

 

[zzITCHY420zz]

Yes just make sure the dosage of benzos arent blackout amounts.

 

[Screaming_Skull]

Yes it's fine as long as your not taking ridiculous doses of the benzo's and have a tolerance to both. Benzo's are the only thing on Subs that keep my cravings/anxiety at bay and not fuckin' up and goin to spend all my cash on Dillies/Oxy's(fucked up and did that again this month,oh well...) But just keep the doses normal and you will be fine as long as you have a tolerance to both..I find 2mg of Klonopin or Xanax to work WONDERS while on my normal dose of Bupe, while if it was just bupe I'm still thinking about going out and scoring something...although, must admit sometimes I do go over my 2mg rule and end up taking like 10mg trying to catch some kind of nod that never comes.i DO NOt reccomended at all with a tolerance or not, it will just raise your tolerace to the benzo's to where the normal dose that was helping with cravings will no longer help....

 

[Pill__Head]

Yes just make sure the dosage of benzos arent blackout amounts.

I can handle some crazy doses.

 

[RTrain]

^I remember reading about it a while back, and iirc. it has a wider side effect profile, and is much more dangerous to use since benzo withdrawals are so much more dangerous than opiate withdrawals. Someone hit with a shot of narcan is going to feel like shit for 2 or 3 hours, but barring the odd bizarre case, they'll survive the process. But using flumazenil on someone with a serious benzo dependence could trigger major seizures and all other kinds of serious problems, which means the dose has to be carefully and constantly monitored. That's why they only use it in hospitals, and only in limited situations. An ambulance often has no way of knowing how dependent the individual is on the drug in question, and could easily misjudge the dose and make the problem even worse.

Duly noted. The whole seizure aspect kind of slipped my mind. And with the way idiot paramedics, and now basically every type of first responder, freely hit junkies with Narcan who are doing nothing more than chilling and riding a nice nod, then they could be apt to be as frivolous with the use of flumazenil, leading to much worse issues than the already dangerous ones from unnccesarily administering Narcan.