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Stimulant induced perephrial vasoconstriction (discolored extremeties) How serious?

B

bpayne

Bluelighter
Joined
Aug 26, 2008
Messages
1,549
So I went on a Mini Stim Binge this week.. Just two days with Apvp.. this is my second day of No sleep.. actually I will be going to bed in a few minutes as something Really bothersome happened and made me stop my Use short..

I developed noticable periphrial vasoconstriction and what I believe to be Cyanosis.. .

a little bit after my last Line of Apvp I noticed my hands were looking really weird.. they were purple in some places, and Greyish blue.. yellow in others mainly over the finger joints.. and my feet were Really Yellow-purple-ish looking and parts of them(the bottoms) were turning grey this Really startled me. and when I pressed on my hands they would be kinda "stretchy" and turn pale yellowish and then blue at any place where pressure was applied.. I discontinued my stimulant use immediately
Then I drank two beers and had about 2 grams of kratom.. it seems the symptoms are somewhat dissapating now.. but are still mildly there.. like my hands are Really Reddish purple.. and in one spot of my right hand the opposite of where the thumb is.. THe meaty part of the hand.. there is a Small patch of Blue almost as if I developed varicose vains there... but I believe this could be cyanosis.. Some of the vasoconstrictive discoloration is still there but Most of it has Dissapated.. so for Future reference. Is this just something Par for the course with Stimulant users?
Or Is this something that Is or could be Really serious.. Do I need to go to the hospital for this one Episode? I feel fine.. in fact the two beers and the kratom calmed me down Immensly and has pretty much gotten rid of any comedown that I would have had to go through.. but there is still some slight discoloration. like the blue patch on the one side of my hand.. and both my hands are Really Dark Reddish purple still. and if I put pressure on the skin it becomes a really pale blue still.. But for the most part the rest of the symptoms are going away.. What should I look out for regarding complications related to this Event? Does this mean I can never do stimulants again? I hope not because I halfway believe that I am adhd and that they help me Focus... of course I was using this apvp recreationally for the last two days with no sleep.. and probably was going a bit overboard with it.
But still.. How serious is this Vasoconstriction discoloration? Is this something I can just brush off or do I need to be seen by a medical professional immediately or something? I have had this happen One time before on another stimulant.. in that case it was a 3 day binge and I just discontinued use and it all went away.. Anyway I'd really like to know how serious this is. and what can I do about it..
Thanks!
B
 
Did you experience any of the sharp stabbing like pains in the hands and feet, Like randomly when you touch something with your hand. The permanent gooseflesh, numbness and cold extremities and frequent tingles across the body and scalp?

Its hard to tell the extremity of yours without any other effects you may have experienced. Maybe you can add these?

When I have really bad vasoc on meth and feel really uncomfortable and overstimulated, i get the effects i mentioned above but my hands and feet are only bright red and its consistent, sorta with a purple tinge as well. When you stretch the skin or place pressure on it it goes almost completely white at that area.

Your discoloration and patches/inconsistency sounds worse then what I usually experience and mine is very close to OD doses. If you get the other effects as well as what I mentioned it might be something to be concerned about.

The rule i concluded from research in terms of real danger, longer term damage or the possibility of needing medical attention is that if these effects last beyond the effects of the drug and perhaps the comedown, you should get help.

In terms of never using again, you should be fine to do so, with much lower dosage, if all the symptoms go away when properly sober again or day or two.

I dont know what Apvp is but if you used a reasonable dose of this and got the above issues then you might have health concerns or be at risk or more sensitive to these side effects.

Lastly when I have been desperate for some relief from this, alcohol has worked well. Not recommended with amps in general but it helped me. Thing is you need to sustain the levels until you come down or sober up. If the alcohol wears of and leaves your system the effects can come back worse.
 
Usually cyanosis reverses when there's an underlying cause, in your case it would be the lack of oxygen to your extremities. Since it's already beginning to reverse I would take that as a good sign, but if it persists for more than 24 hours, see a doctor. Try to keep your hands warm, eat well, drink a lot, and make sure your blood circulation is regulated.
 
hey, Thanks ya'll!! yeah.. I had absolutley NO physical discomfort or signs of this happening at all as far as sensations.. just the discoloration was VERY worrying in and of itself.. and Yeah I had been going at it with No sleep for 2 days and during this Last night Ramped my doses up Considerably.. After 4 hours sleep everything has gone away Except for that tiny Blue patch on the otherside of my hand.. But I'm starting to wonder if this is not bruising or Ink as I would write Very detailed reports on what were happening
 
^^ This is very odd. I wonder if somebody can confirm what this could be because without those other things it certinally doesnt sound like vasoc, or does it?

Oh and like you said about the pen, that does happen, often I have freaked out about the top of my hand being all blue and gray and shit only to eventually realize its just cig ash from when i was brushing it off my desk lol. Damn paranoia
 
A-PVP is the most paranoia inducing drug i have ever come around. almost anyone who goes to the er feels fine after 10mgdiazepam/1mg lorazepam depending on your country of residence..

my genral rule of thumb is that as long as i just have a little feeling in my toes, its all good. its very hard to self diagnose wether or not the vasoconstriction is serious or not. also make sure you have benzos at your dispossal before ingesting a drug that gives so much paranoia as A-PVP. you can get to a stimulants induced paranoid psychotic state, very quickly. Even faster than MDPV.


If in doubt go to the ER. we cant check your blood preasure, run blood tests, or monitor your heart on this forum. if in doubt seek professional help.

Its just my experience that everytime i go to the ER on stimulants it was just psychological


Also ingesting
multi vitamins
B-complex(b3 Niacin is important)
Electrolytes: Magnesium, Kalcium, kalium, natrium (Af sports drink will do perfectly)
Anti oxidants (vitamine C supplement, fruit, juice)
and proteins. A protein shake with 30 grams protein powder and milk/or just 1000ml of milk
oatmeal
a lot of water
Fish oil

If you start feeling shitty in anyway either physical or psychological, force youself to ingest all of that. even if you dont dont fhave any side effects, ingesting this at least every 12 hour when binging will significantly improve your experience with the drug, aswell as combat side effects.
 
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Okay.. thanks guys..
Yeah, it was odd cause there was No tingling Nor numbness to be found.. Nor any sign of Any physical discomfort.. Nor Regular stimulant anxiety... in fact the ONLY reason I stopped was the Purple Blue-ish Discolorations in my hands, Feet, and knees.. So are you saying that as long as It doesn't start going numb that the discoloration should not be that worrying?.. . I like your list of supplements my man.. In fact I have Most of those.. Fish oil-Check Magnesium-Check, water-Check, a B complex Multi vitamin- Check.. . I also have Potassium and L-arginine... Do you think taking a couple grams of L-arginine before hand could help prevent the discoloration issues?
 
Yeah with the vasoc its just those damn sharp pains that get me, not the pain but the random surprise attack factor can really get annoying.

Chelated mag is good for this. I can actually start to feel shitty and take my mag and ill feel much better shortly.
 
Arginine is of questionable use in treating vasoconstriction of blood vessels in muscles as far as I know (better off with nicotinic acid, but don't take it with any hot drink or the facial vasodilation can be a bit alarming). Where arginine is of use is as the physiological source of nitric oxide (NO) which is essential in getting dangly bits to stand to attention when the need requires it (nitric oxide production is how Viagra exerts its effects) .

Taking a vasodilator is not generally not adviced when you are on drugs. and should be thorougly researched before even thinking about giving it a go. stick to protein shakes.

Whey protein powder for example does contain Arginine along with numerous other amino acids.

Essential amino acids (EAA), per 100 g
6.2g of isoleucine
11.8g of leucine
10.1g of lysine
2.1g of methionine
3.9g of phenylalanine
5.5g of threonine
2.1g of tryptophan
6.4g of valine

Non-essential amino acid (NAA) per 100 g
4.2 g of alanine
2.9 g of arginine
9.5 g of aspartic
2.5 g of cystine
17.0g of glutamic acid
2.3 g of glycine
2.0 g of histidine
4.0 g of proline
5.3 g of serine
2.2 g of tyrosine

And ingesting the list i made, along with a lot of fluids will help tremendeously on the discolorations. if they occur after several days of use. because dehydration and lack of calories and nutrients. Can severly contribute to adverse effects when binging.

Just make it a habit to force yourself to ingest all of that regularely when binging. you can pour down a protein shake with 1000ml of milk and 30 grams of whey protein powder in 10 seconds. and an apple 20 seconds tops.

Dont think of it as food but as fuel for your body and mind.! Just do it.
 
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^^ The food thing can be so difficult, actually taking the action of attempting to put this stuff in your face is daunting. Your mouth and throat just want to rebel against it, close up, not allow swallowing. I always need to literally wash down mouthfuls of food with liquid even if im not experiencing any dry mouth issues. Besides this however taste is greatly enhanced.

But once you eat you always feel better, I even feel more high.

Tell me Snubi, what is your opinion on alcohol for use here due to its vasodilation properties. I get positive results for vasoc including a somewhat pleasant synergistic addition to the high itself however i know a pleasant experience doesnt mean its healthy or safe.
 
Thank you Very Much Snubi!! I will get some of that as soon as possible. Also I was Drinking a LOT of water during my usage and I would eat at least 1 meal per day during the usage.. it's not that hard for me to eat and drink when on Stims.. so it should not be a Problem.. Also Blight and Snubi please correct me If I am wrong.. But I was always under the impression that a Very Small amount of alcohol 1-2 standard drinks.. will cause vasodilation and Help.. Hence the "Flush" face that people get when they start drinking.. But any more than that and it will cause Rebound Vasoconstriction potentially making the situation worse.. that is just what I was under the impression of so I don't know for sure.. I do know that This morning what helped me the Most was my Low dose (2 grams) of indo Kratom.. doing this made all the difference in the world to me..
 
Yes you are correct regarding alcohol. Depending on your level of vasoc you might need more. I usually hit a triple wiskey and beer and im good. I also find when the high is not so great anymore later in the binge alcohol works very well at improving the experience. I feel more euphoric again even though i know it shouldnt do this theoretically. Shouldn't work but it feels like it does.
 
Hey you guys.. Hate to Bump this but it's been 2-3 days and I was thinking of trying out my apvp again tonight.. Now here is the list of what I have..
-Red Vein Kratom (around 40 grams)
-12 pack of 5.9% Beast Ice beer
- Magnesium Oxide supplements
- L-Arginine Supplements
- B complex vitamin supplements
- Fish oil Supplements
-a Tiny bit of purple high powered cannabis ( a really tiny amount like maybe 1 bowl left)
- Asprin

-Water

Is any combination of this stuff or any of these selections more or less beneficial or harmful towards reducting the vasoconstrictive properties of pyrovalerones like apvp?

I remember reading that mixing vasodiolators with vasoconstrictors could lead to a cardiac crisis in and of itself..

last time when this happened the other day... I drink 2 beers and had 2 grams of kratom and it sorted out the initial problem although there was minor lingering for the rest of the day until I finally got a good nights sleep. would this be safe to use again? or should I stick with my supplements..
I also read that although asprin is a Platelet inhibitor that it's overall action is that of a vasoconstrictor so while it may be good at helping one survive a myocardial infarction.. use to counteract vasoconstriction could make it worse.. is this True?

Any tips to help this go better? .. Also I don't plan on Binging for 2 days straight with no sleep like last time.. Even if I have to Force myself off by Just switching to some beer to come down during the first night.. Is there any problems with this?

Thanks again ya'll!.. I may go to the store tonight where do u think I could find Cayenne pepper and is it safe to use to counteract the constriction or is this considered just like using a vasodiolator oh and my girl has Cinnamon, and coconut oil supplements.. not sure if these would be of any help but if so please let me know!

B
 
Move your body around. Use your muscle. A-pvp is a vein constrictor to the extreme and if you sit in one place for hours you will notice frozen feet/ hands. High as fuck blood pressure. Eat well drink tepidater and dont take a big hit right after filling your stomach. Heart overload lol


Brain suffocation erryday allday. Fuck winter
 
hey, Tamarids... that makes a lot of sense because for 90% of my 2 days binge I sat at my computer desk.. although I did get up frequently to address concerns around my house.. I always went right back to my desk where of course I would rack up another 5-10 mg bump and sit there zoned out into computer stuff for hour after hour.. no doubt that this contributed to it..

But one main question that I've asked that I don't think I've gotten quite the clearest answer I need yet is : When your hands and feet start turning blue-ish purpleish in places.. due to stimulant use.. Exactly how serious is that.. there was no tingling or loss of sensation nor any other physical discomfort.. hell I wasnt even paranoid one bit .. Until I saw the discoloration.. so How dangerous is the discoloration all on it's own?
 
^^ Yeah i would also lie in 1 position on my bed with laptop or hours or days on end. It can break you by the end.
 
Well Guys,

I just started another research session.. I want to see if a much smaller usage will cause the same problems Considering that it took 2 days of no sleep and constant dosing for this to happen last time.. I hope I didn't open some kind of door that causes this to happen more easily now though.. SO For this session I am going to Dose only a Few times. maybe for 4-5 hours max.. then Stop and Drink a few beers (2-3) max in order to Stop the compulsiveness short.. hopefully this will be more tolerable.. .. If at any time the discoloration rears it's ugly head in here I will stop immediately .. Any tips you guys got for me to keep these type of side effects to a minimum?

However it goes.. I will report back here my findings
Thanks for being so helpful ya'll!!!
Bpayne

Oh if any of you have a minute, I'd appreciate it if you could check out my music that I record myself at my house.. it is hiphop I am a Local Artist from NC

http://www.reverbnation.com/Bpayne


I take any and all constructive criticism and Praise very well by the way .. so opinions good or bad are always Welcomed!
 
Things have been going well so far.. Probably going to wrap it up in a couple more hours.because I think one of the keys to doing this safer it to NOT go all night and all day with no sleep. so I'm going to wrap it up around 9 pm.. come down and hopefully be asleep around 1-2 am.. I am thinking.. There is only slightly altered skin color.. very minor blotchy-ness. but nothing like what happened the other day..
 
blegggh, well I'm going on 16 hours. up all night.. gonna call it a night soon tho. still no sign of what happened the other day even though I ramped my doses up pretty quickly this time; I guess it has to do with developing a quick tolerance to the apvp.. I suppose it will take a lot more to get to the same Level of bodily harm than before. or at least to get to the same rush-ing feeling. Guess we'll have to see about the bodily harm..so far.I have very mild red blotches down my legs and that is it.. my right hand is bruised and cramped from me taking 21 pages of notes in 16 hours. It seems that when I take bump i zone out into the rush and ferverdly write over and over again in..Horribly tiny writing about my experience.. talk about a "Trip Report". oddly enough even though my handwriting is illegible at best in this state.. I find myself typing with little difficulty.. Only about 10 misspellings did I have to go back and do..
well,I guess I'll sign off now, just wanted to state that everything is fine for now..and if I reach some sort of difficulty, then this will be the First place I go.. (Assuming it's not a medical Emergency hopefully, well Anyways,
Here's another bit of apvp.. bumping up for alll you tweakers out there (wow my fine motor control must really be messed up, I know I've auto-corrected at least 25 times)\
That is something else I've noticed on these pyrovalerone/Beta ketone stiimulants as well...Is that after a certain amount you really lose grasp of your fine motor control..in my case writing and typing correctly becomes nearly impossible. Anyone else notice this as well?
sorry such a rambling Long ass post. guess I'm just PeeVee'd out..night or Rather Morning ya'lll!!
Bpayne
 
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