Starting college soon - Want to major in chemistry.

[Sandozer]

Good day everyone!

I graduated High School two years ago and have had a pretty unstable life since then so I haven't gone to college yet. Anyways, I graduated through an independent studies program with a 2.5 because I took too many drugs during high school. I'm definitely no dumbass, but after two years of boozing and no schooling you start to lose everything you learned. I can feel my vocabulary shrinking everyday. I provided this information to help make these questions I have a little easier to answer.

I'm now ready to start college and I have a few questions about majoring in chemistry. I will be attending a transferable community college here in California.

First off if I work my ass off how long do you think it will take to get my A.S. in chemistry? I will be attending summer school and intersessions to make up for the time I have lost.

Also I'm not sure but I kind of want to go into biochemistry, I've looked up salaries and what not online and although biochemistry is more interdisciplinary they get paid less then just a chemistry major, is it just because it's a less popular field, or is it because it's a more specific field? I have no clue.

Also if I get my A.s. (and then go on to get my B.s) in chemistry I can always go on to get my next degree in Biochemistry right? Or would I have to plan that out from the get go?

My neighbor is an organic chemist and his advice to me was to get my A.s. in chem, get a job somewhere washing glassware, and then go back to school to avoid being overqualified.

By the way I'm hoping to take the Shulgin/Nichols route. (that's my dream anyways. that's not the reason I'm majoring in chemistry [well maybe just a little bit ], but I would like to end up in psychedelic research someday, and don't tell me how improbable that is because I already know and I don't care.)

Please bear with me on this, any help on this subject will be greatly appreciated. I know there are a bunch of chemists on this board.

 

[drewmandan]

You forgot to mention when you plan on quitting the alcohol.

 

[Thou]

This is a query I'm also interested in getting some input on.

 

[Sandozer]

You forgot to mention when you plan on quitting the alcohol.

Well I already did that, well habitual use anyways. I'll have a couple beers with my friends every now and then, but now I just smoke weed.

Were you planning on helping me with my questions?

 

[Emericana]

Dont do it man. Do not choose your major because of illegal drugs. you will fucking hate yourself when you stop using substances. That is what happened to me.

I got a BA in Molecular, Cellular, and Developmental Biology because I was interested in drugs (neuroscience etc)...

Now that I do not use anymore... I am in a really shitty situation, and my education I got in school was fucking useless for anything that I am truly interested in doing sober.

Ugh-- I couldn't make this up if I tried.

 

[jebus]

Yip, only do chemistry at uni if you are generally interested in the subject. Particularly at undergraduate level only a tiny portion of what you are going to be studying will contain anything even remotely related to drugs. Make sure you can get through all the quantum mechanics and thermodynamics and all sorts of other stuff (the good stuff in my opinion) as well as the organic, as that will be necessary to get through your degree

 

[rant*N*rave]

Any salary data you look up on chemistry vs. biochemistry is going to be virtually worthless because science programs are so different between schools, both degrees can be used to get many of the same jobs, and a BS and an AS are COMPLETELY different things. (You should also keep in mind that an AS in chem on its own is virtually worthless in the working world - it's really meant for transferring into a four-year program. If you don't intend on getting a BS, an associate's degree related to a technical skill would be better, e.g. histology, pharm tech, radiology, etc.) I have a BS in biochemistry from UW-Madison, which is an extremely sought after degree in the entry-level science world, so my job prospect/starting salary options are pretty good (if I can find places that will interview me these days, lol). I am certain that my starting salary will be no different from any of the people I know that graduated in chemistry.

It's my opinion that a biochemistry degree is worth more *depending on where you get the degree* because it covers a more broad array of material and allows you a lot more leeway when it comes to continuing education or finding a job (that depending part is a biggie - as I mentioned, degree programs vary wildly from school to school, and at some schools, the biochem program is a goddamn joke). At the school I went to, which has one of the most respected biochemistry programs in the world, I could have pretty easily gotten a double major with chemistry or biology because there was so much overlap (but I didn't because I don't really see the point of doing so). If anything I love that it allows me to branch out into the biological or purely chemical sciences without any holdups. I could go to vet school, start a master's program in pharmaceuticals, or study marine biology without hesitation and without difficulty getting into any of those programs. If you're worried about planning, I would DEFINITELY recommend doing biochem because it leaves so many doors open in case you change your mind about what exactly you want to do. I changed my mind completely during my years in school, but my degree is just as applicable to what I want to do now as what I wanted to do back at the beginning because my education was so broad but still incredibly thorough.

Things are even less difficult if you're starting with an AS because no matter what your AS is in (biochem, chem, biology, physics, whatever), if it's from a decent school and you get good grades, you'll be able to get into a BS program in whichever discipline you'd like without any difficulty - it definitely wouldn't be a problem to get into a school for a BS in biochem with an AS in chemistry as far as I know. That might even be a good way to do it because it will probably get you out of some of the chem classes in the four-year program, which would probably be harder at a four-year school (even if only for class size!).

I would also suggest as others have said that you really look into what a chemistry program REALLY IS before you dive in headfirst with your Shulgin dreams. I know you told us not to say anything about it, but it is COMPLETELY unrealistic to even think about that sort of thing when you're not even going to a 4 year program yet. Chemistry is an intense program that will require you to take a lot of difficult classes many of which you might not like (I hated o chem with a passion, and I knew a lot of people that hated the physics requirements and other unrelated science classes they had to take; biophysical chemistry was a great class for knowledge and I loved my professor but it nearly killed me), and the lab work will be difficult and time consuming to the max. I know lots of people that dropped out of science majors because they didn't realize what it REALLY entailed. If you want to go the Shulgin route, you'll need a BS and an MS and probably a PhD in some combination of biochemistry, chemistry, neurobiology, pharmacology, neuropharmacology, chemical engineering, and the like. You will do backbreaking amounts of lab work, research, and paper writing, and your hours will suck and make you crazy. Nothing like coming into the lab at 2 in the morning to check on mice or add more chemicals to your daphnia tank... In my last semester capstone lab, I spent almost 8 hours a week on lab reports alone, and that's not counting actual lab time. When your exams in all your classes end up being in the same 10 day stretch, you'll want to cry.

Definitely ask anyone you know with a science degree or science job for info, and if you know what school you're going to go to, you should contact a counselor right away for more information about what classes they have, what transfers (and what doesn't!), and what your options will be for moving on to a four-year program. They will have lots of info for you that might help you decide which major you want to get into so you're not stuck finding out the hard way after taking all the wrong classes. Again, that's exactly why I did biochem, because I wasn't really sure what I wanted to do but I loved science and knew I wanted to do something science related. You may find that the path to get where you want is not what you thought it was at all.

In any event, yay science geeks! I loved my education experience, all the shitty classes included, because I learned so much cool fucking shit along the way. If you're into science, you'll get something out of your schooling no matter what you do. If you have any specific questions, you can feel free to ask me about whatever you'd like. It took me 7 years to do a 4 year degree because I had to drop out several times for health issues, so I really got into every detail on both academic and administrative levels in order to get through my degree program.

 

[thomas_sk8s]

rant*N*rave same as the OP of this thread, I've seriously been considering going for chemistry as my major, but haven't had many people (none at all really) that have gone this route to talk about it with. I'm also going to be attending a local community college, and was planning to transfer to a good stage college up north somewhere; but I'm not sure of what colleges have good chemistry programs, and I wouldn't know where to begin looking in order to find out. Any way you could help out a second person with their education questions?

 

[Cyc]

I'll be going into 2nd year Biology this upcoming semester, but there is a lot of Chemistry overlap in my program. 1st year Chem. just about killed me. I came out of a A.Sc. in Computer Science, took a couple years off, came back, and the difference between College and University was like a roundhouse kick to the nuts. That class had an almost 50% failure rate at my school. It's rumoured that the it exists as a reality check for naive students hoping to get into science or medicine.

Be prepared to study, and be prepared to wrap your head around some big concepts. These are concepts which seem to go on forever. You're going to dive head-first into the nitty gritty, and you better be prepared to breathe, eat, shit, and sleep Science for the next xxx years it takes to finish your degree.

That's not to say that you can't smoke weed, or drink with your friends on the weekends, but from personal experience, it's important not to let your focus stray too far, atleast during the school year.

Best of luck.

 

[toolfan420]

If you don't mind me asking what level science/math were you at when you finished high school?

 

[yougene]

If you plan on getting a B.S you don't have to get an A.S. You can just take the classes that are required to transfer to your school of choice.

 

[adrian89987]

Yar, I only got a 'conditional acceptance' to school I was originally planning on going to. So I went to a community college sort of school for one year and got the exact requirements needed to transfer into university.

Now I am about to be a senior chem major with a 3.8gpa. As long as you are ready to step your game up after transferring...it is not That difficult to make good grades as long as you really have a passion for what you are learning.

 

[Sandozer]

Any salary data you look up on chemistry vs. biochemistry is going to be virtually worthless because science programs are so different between schools, both degrees can be used to get many of the same jobs, and a BS and an AS are COMPLETELY different things. (You should also keep in mind that an AS in chem on its own is virtually worthless in the working world - it's really meant for transferring into a four-year program. If you don't intend on getting a BS, an associate's degree related to a technical skill would be better, e.g. histology, pharm tech, radiology, etc.) I have a BS in biochemistry from UW-Madison, which is an extremely sought after degree in the entry-level science world, so my job prospect/starting salary options are pretty good (if I can find places that will interview me these days, lol). I am certain that my starting salary will be no different from any of the people I know that graduated in chemistry.

It's my opinion that a biochemistry degree is worth more *depending on where you get the degree* because it covers a more broad array of material and allows you a lot more leeway when it comes to continuing education or finding a job (that depending part is a biggie - as I mentioned, degree programs vary wildly from school to school, and at some schools, the biochem program is a goddamn joke). At the school I went to, which has one of the most respected biochemistry programs in the world, I could have pretty easily gotten a double major with chemistry or biology because there was so much overlap (but I didn't because I don't really see the point of doing so). If anything I love that it allows me to branch out into the biological or purely chemical sciences without any holdups. I could go to vet school, start a master's program in pharmaceuticals, or study marine biology without hesitation and without difficulty getting into any of those programs. If you're worried about planning, I would DEFINITELY recommend doing biochem because it leaves so many doors open in case you change your mind about what exactly you want to do. I changed my mind completely during my years in school, but my degree is just as applicable to what I want to do now as what I wanted to do back at the beginning because my education was so broad but still incredibly thorough.

Things are even less difficult if you're starting with an AS because no matter what your AS is in (biochem, chem, biology, physics, whatever), if it's from a decent school and you get good grades, you'll be able to get into a BS program in whichever discipline you'd like without any difficulty - it definitely wouldn't be a problem to get into a school for a BS in biochem with an AS in chemistry as far as I know. That might even be a good way to do it because it will probably get you out of some of the chem classes in the four-year program, which would probably be harder at a four-year school (even if only for class size!).

I would also suggest as others have said that you really look into what a chemistry program REALLY IS before you dive in headfirst with your Shulgin dreams. I know you told us not to say anything about it, but it is COMPLETELY unrealistic to even think about that sort of thing when you're not even going to a 4 year program yet. Chemistry is an intense program that will require you to take a lot of difficult classes many of which you might not like (I hated o chem with a passion, and I knew a lot of people that hated the physics requirements and other unrelated science classes they had to take; biophysical chemistry was a great class for knowledge and I loved my professor but it nearly killed me), and the lab work will be difficult and time consuming to the max. I know lots of people that dropped out of science majors because they didn't realize what it REALLY entailed. If you want to go the Shulgin route, you'll need a BS and an MS and probably a PhD in some combination of biochemistry, chemistry, neurobiology, pharmacology, neuropharmacology, chemical engineering, and the like. You will do backbreaking amounts of lab work, research, and paper writing, and your hours will suck and make you crazy. Nothing like coming into the lab at 2 in the morning to check on mice or add more chemicals to your daphnia tank... In my last semester capstone lab, I spent almost 8 hours a week on lab reports alone, and that's not counting actual lab time. When your exams in all your classes end up being in the same 10 day stretch, you'll want to cry.

Definitely ask anyone you know with a science degree or science job for info, and if you know what school you're going to go to, you should contact a counselor right away for more information about what classes they have, what transfers (and what doesn't!), and what your options will be for moving on to a four-year program. They will have lots of info for you that might help you decide which major you want to get into so you're not stuck finding out the hard way after taking all the wrong classes. Again, that's exactly why I did biochem, because I wasn't really sure what I wanted to do but I loved science and knew I wanted to do something science related. You may find that the path to get where you want is not what you thought it was at all.

In any event, yay science geeks! I loved my education experience, all the shitty classes included, because I learned so much cool fucking shit along the way. If you're into science, you'll get something out of your schooling no matter what you do. If you have any specific questions, you can feel free to ask me about whatever you'd like. It took me 7 years to do a 4 year degree because I had to drop out several times for health issues, so I really got into every detail on both academic and administrative levels in order to get through my degree program.

Thank you so much for taking the time to write that out! Just to let you all know, I am extremely interested in chemistry and I've been raised on and obsessed with science since I was a little lad because my dad was an aeronautical engineer. I'm a chip of the 'ole block. When I was little while all the other kids were watching cartoons I was watching Carl Sagan's Cosmos. When I was little I wanted to be an astrophysicist but when I grew up a little bit I figured I would just leave that to the guys at NASA.

My dad helped design the radar systems for the Stealth bomber. He also helped design various weapons defense systems for the military (missiles and whatnot). He has worked for Northrop, and before they merged he worked for Boeing and Mcdonnell Douglas. I think he worked for Lockheed too but I forget He was also a college professor at one point.

So that being said, science is nothing new to me

And to Cyc: Eating sleeping and breathing science is also nothing new to me because I do it everyday. However I don't think I'll be shitting any science though. hahaahah bad joke.

The whole psychedelic research thing is just something I would eventually like to do if I get the chance to. I'm not majoring in chem/biochem so I can make drugs. And if I did end up in psychedelic research it wouldn't be for another 15 years or so. So I'm not diving in with my Shulgin dreams. I'm 20 right now.

My neighbor is an organic chemist and I've been consulting him, but I only get to see him once in a blue moon. He always gives me good advice. He said if I get an A.Sc in chemistry then I could get a job washing laboratory glassware somewhere and then go back to school to pursue my next degree. He's also very knowledgeable on the subject of Shulgin and the discoveries which he has contributed to the scientific community. The main reason I'm choosing one of these majors is because I also would like to contribute to the scientific community.

I plan to transfer to a university here in California which happens to be renowned for their Biological science programs. It's also conveniently located near the region in which I live.


I've been doing a lot of research lately on what paths I will have to take in order to pursue this endeavor. This one of the reasons I haven't gone to school for 2 years after high school, the other reasons being alcoholism because of the presence of unpleasant instabilities in my life over the last two years.

Thank you Rant*N*Rave. You really helped a lot! And thanks to anyone else who helped!

I can see why some of you have made assumptions in regards to my intentions; I am a bluelighter after all. But you have to crawl before you walk, and one day I plan to be running.

I really would love to go into Biochemistry, I was just afraid of doing all of that interdisciplinary work if I could just major in chemistry and get paid more. But now that I know that that isn't the case I'm that much closer to making my decision.

Thanks everyone, and any more info on the subject would be greatly appreciated!

 

[bluemanthief]

Not sure if it's already been metioned casue some of the posts are really long

But have you considered pharmeceuticals? Like be a pharmicist or something and then integrate chemistry in there by minoring in it or something? I have been considering that because I am also starting college soon and I have been considering that because I too, am HIGHLY interested in drugs, but as others said, I don't want to take classes solely based on my interest in illegal drugs.

I mean, a pharmacist is still learning all those chemical compounds and synthesized drugs and stuff, just not the kind of drugs you're thinkin of, :/, but hey, I am personally just interested in ALL drugs and how they change and distort the human perception on EVERYTHING. I dunno, maybe that could be you too?

 

[Sandozer]

Not sure if it's already been metioned casue some of the posts are really long

But have you considered pharmeceuticals? Like be a pharmicist or something and then integrate chemistry in there by minoring in it or something? I have been considering that because I am also starting college soon and I have been considering that because I too, am HIGHLY interested in drugs, but as others said, I don't want to take classes solely based on my interest in illegal drugs.

I mean, a pharmacist is still learning all those chemical compounds and synthesized drugs and stuff, just not the kind of drugs you're thinkin of, :/, but hey, I am personally just interested in ALL drugs and how they change and distort the human perception on EVERYTHING. I dunno, maybe that could be you too?

Yeah that's me in a nutshell I suppose (I'm in a nutshell! lol). I just want to have a profession that intrigues me. I just HAVE TO KNOW how the world works or I'm not satisfied.

 

[rant*N*rave]

rant*N*rave same as the OP of this thread, I've seriously been considering going for chemistry as my major, but haven't had many people (none at all really) that have gone this route to talk about it with. I'm also going to be attending a local community college, and was planning to transfer to a good stage college up north somewhere; but I'm not sure of what colleges have good chemistry programs, and I wouldn't know where to begin looking in order to find out. Any way you could help out a second person with their education questions?

I'm not sure what your definition of "up north" is, but I went to UW-Madison because it's absolutely the best. I also applied to Washington University in St. Louis. Most of the Big Ten schools have at least decent science programs as well. U of Minnesota has pretty good sciences, although I get the impression they steer more toward comp sci and engineering. Many of the smaller Wisconsin state schools specialize in certain areas of science - my cousin went to UW-Steven's Point to focus on a particular kind of biology. Obviously all the big name schools in the Northeast are good too, but I'm from the Midwest, so I don't know as much about them.


OP: really you have to do what you think is best FOR YOU. Again, I stress the need to talk to a counselor about your options and how things work at your school/school you want to transfer to/etc. Since it's so different everywhere, you simply have to plan for your desired outcome. Like I said, I went with biochem because it's broad, but only because the school I went to gives an awesomely thorough education... Since you do want to go the chemicals route, I would try to make sure that you get a good chem background with lots of lab time (I took 2 semesters of honors intro and analytical chem with labs, 2 semesters of honors o-chem and a lab, 1 semester of 500-level biophysical chemistry with a p chem lab, and a capstone modern biochemical techniques lab, as well as labs with almost every other science class) - you might want to squeeze in some specifics in chemical engineering where you can. I'd have to recommend against pharmacy (as someone else mentioned) because you won't be learning how to synthesize drugs or truly analyze molecular compounds, which is ultimately what it sounds like you want to do - pharmacy is really more related to biology than chemistry in a lot of ways. If you are really more interested in the biology of pharmaceuticals, though, then pharmacy could be a good way to go. *shutting up now* :D

 

[yucatanboy2]

I was a chem major, and am now a chem grad student (almost got my PhD), and plan on trying to be a professor (although its ridiculously tough to do that with all the competition)

Its a good idea to go after an Associates in your position, and keep your GPA up, to show a prospective college that your HS GPA isn't representative. Also, extracurricular stuff is a must... do you do any extracurricular stuff (leadership, community involvement, volunteering, working at a job in the field, etc)?

With your HS grades (it sucks, but you've got to deal with the fact that most students going to college have a much higher gpa average), you'll want to get some other boost to get your boss's/prof's attentions (they'll be the ones writing the letter of recommendations, and you want those to be stellar)

Here's some good ones:

work at a local biotech/science company for a bit, get along with your boss and get a great letter of recommendation.

work at the school for a bit (help the chem prof with research or teaching/grading/anything) and get along with your prof and get a great letter of recommendation

attend any seminars/conferences you can (again you might want to talk to a professor about this and go with them), and write a report about it/present it to your class/ or something (and you can put it on a resume, etc)

Basically, you've got to elevate yourself above the pack, show you're excited and dedicated to compensate for your HS GPA.

Once you've done that, you should be able to transfer into a better program and do well, so you can go on to bigger and better things.

I gotta go, but let me know of any questions about chemistry in college or grad school or beyond and I'll be happy to answer them!!

To be a chemist, you've got to really enjoy it, otherwise its not worth all the work in college and beyond.

 

[Sandozer]

I was a chem major, and am now a chem grad student (almost got my PhD), and plan on trying to be a professor (although its ridiculously tough to do that with all the competition)

Its a good idea to go after an Associates in your position, and keep your GPA up, to show a prospective college that your HS GPA isn't representative. Also, extracurricular stuff is a must... do you do any extracurricular stuff (leadership, community involvement, volunteering, working at a job in the field, etc)?

With your HS grades (it sucks, but you've got to deal with the fact that most students going to college have a much higher gpa average), you'll want to get some other boost to get your boss's/prof's attentions (they'll be the ones writing the letter of recommendations, and you want those to be stellar)

Here's some good ones:

work at a local biotech/science company for a bit, get along with your boss and get a great letter of recommendation.

work at the school for a bit (help the chem prof with research or teaching/grading/anything) and get along with your prof and get a great letter of recommendation

attend any seminars/conferences you can (again you might want to talk to a professor about this and go with them), and write a report about it/present it to your class/ or something (and you can put it on a resume, etc)

Basically, you've got to elevate yourself above the pack, show you're excited and dedicated to compensate for your HS GPA.

Once you've done that, you should be able to transfer into a better program and do well, so you can go on to bigger and better things.

I gotta go, but let me know of any questions about chemistry in college or grad school or beyond and I'll be happy to answer them!!

To be a chemist, you've got to really enjoy it, otherwise its not worth all the work in college and beyond.

Thanks man, It's nice to know that if I have questions that there are qualified people here who can answer them.

I'm just going to be doing general ed at my community college first so I can get my A.Sc in chem. From there I plan to transfer to a biologically worthy UC university where I will go for a bachelors in Biochemistry. From there I don't know yet but I want to end up in medicinal chemistry. I suppose with counseling I will figure out exactly what I want to do. Thanks for the help guys! I will have more questions soon!