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Bupe St. Johns Wart Potentiaing Suboxone???

S

Screaming_Skull

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We move and groove and cut loose from fear, we kil
Was on opiophile and there was a thread saying that St. Johns Wart can Potentiate suboxone even for people on daily maintaince, anyone have any experience with this? I've been on it for about 3 weeks now, and while my plan this month was to not take anything but subs for a month I broke down and got two Klonopins to try to get some kind a buzz '(although after my first dose of the day I do have a mood lift thats nice the first few hours then fades away into feeling normal), and I must say the Klons adds to bupe what it's missing, just doin it this one night though because my next appointment is on Dec 2nd and don't want that in my system. Sooo, anyone heard of this or have any expericenes with Subs and St. Johns Wart? If only my doctor would be okay with weed...
 
Your doctor should be okay with weed, and if he isn't find another (provided that's an option). I've kicked four times (not counting cold turkey). Twice at Methadone Clinics, twice through private doctors prescribing Suboxone, and not one of those four sources had a problem with cannabis. In fact, for my specific case, my councilor at the MMT clinic recommended it to me, ironically as I was already sitting next to her while medicated on marijuana.

Little experience with St. John's Wart. To potentiate Opiates I usually go with an anti-histamine, most common one that comes to my mind is diphenhydramine (sometimes called Dramamine), or Atarax (that's the brand name, can't remember the chemical name). Obviously benzos potentiate opiates best, but I understand why that isn't always an option to you. When you do take a benzo, however, Valerian Root Extract will potentiate it very well (after-all, Valium was derived in part from Valerian Root). And White Grapefruit Juice has some sort of enzyme in it (don't know the science, just that it certainly works) that will potentiate both opiates and benzos.

I'm on Bupe too, it isn't recreational on its own to me, though I've heard different from others.
 
No, doctor totally not cool with weed, I told her I occasionlay smoke weed and it was the only time she looked up at me from writing and said that has to stop while your in the program..I'm in Mississippi so that could explain that,ha. Only thing i'm worried about is my next drug test because through the months of may to middle of october(maybe the 1st week of Oct) I was taking valium reguraly at 20-40mg doses and Im scared shitless it'll show up in the next UA because it can be detected for so long,maybe i'm being paranoid but it would TRULY SUCK to loose this medication for something I was doing before I even decided to go in the program, don't know if I should mention that to her or not,I have a job I cant just be cut off of 16mg a day,kinda why I took the Klonopin because I've been freaking out about that, but 2mg should be out by the 2nd of December,enough about that,no drug testing questions I know... But I truly do have anxiety issiues,been thinking of trying the Kava Kava root as I've heard good things. But with the St. Johns Wart they were saying it turns more into Nor-bupe or something which has problems crossing the BBB. I dunno I need to post think maybe it was interesting.
 
And oh, Atarax is Hydroxyzine an anti-histamine that is used to treat anxiety. Was thinking about mentioning that to her because I don't know if she is Benzo friendly, and I really don't feel confortable asking for benzo's since on the medications I listied I took I put Benzo's like a dumbass...
 
^ Yeah me to. It's a scary time man, there's a lot running through your mind. But in all honesty, I'm not sure my doctor isn't correct in denying me benzos. I certainly binge on them. Then again, a lot of that has to do with the fact that they are unavailable to me half the time, causing me to really relish the relief I feel when they are around. And of course I'm chasin that Opiate high I'll never catch.
 
I don't think diazepam was derived from valerian root. Some call valerian the herbal valium and the benzo-like effects from valerian might be most comparable to diazepam.
 
Yes..alot running through my mind doesn't help that the fuckin doctor hasnt ran my pre approval and I can't seem to get her to call me back, and thanksgiving coming up and familys coming and I still have NO money so there gonna be like "oh your still spending all your money on your "medicine",I mean still spending way less than I was but still 140 a week to pick up a quarter of the prescription,maybe it ran through when I call tomorow, I hope... I was thinking about mentioning that I was taking valium at that time and am worried it could still show up in the UA but I don't want her to think "oh he's been using that while on the bupe.." I dunno. Somehow this thread has turned into all my worries instead of St.Johns Wart potentiating Suboxone,lol. Feel free to post on both issues people! =)
 
Oh yeah I meant to actually discuss the topic of the post. Not sure how much you read up on it, but the main idea is that St John's Wort is a P450 enzyme inducer (not sure if its strictly on the CYP3A4 or its a broad P450 inducer). This means it will metabolize the buprenorphine faster because you are inducing the digestive enzymes that metabolize it. Faster buprenorphine metabolism means its turning to norbuprenorphine faster. With norbuprenorphie being hailed as a full agonist opioid, it would stand to reason you would want to have a higher level of it to feel a possible buzz from Suboxone. So that the basic gist of why it might make you get a stronger effect from the Suboxone.

There are some holes in the theory. One is that Norbupe has a tough time passing the BBB, and even in somewhat larger doses than what you are getting from the metabolism of a normal dose of Bupe, you are still not going to have enough pass the BBB for any reasonable effect. Two is many people reported no benefit from taking the SJW, I for one tried it and can't say it did anything worth mentioning. It seems it might have sped up the metabolism, because I felt a need to redose earlier than normal(this would be expected, I suppose). Also, if there is any potentiating effect it could just be attributed to SJW being an antidepressant.

Now I do believe that on the site you mentioned OP there was even a poll taken for people who tried this and the results seemed favorable. Well over half the people reported either possible positive effects or definite positive effects. The other option was no positive effects. I would probably answer 'possible', but its also most likely a minimal change if there is one.

Maybe a combination of this and something that will send Norbupe over the BBB faster has some potential. Something like quinine or PPIs could be possiblities.
 
Ya, that what I was worried about tryiing it was it would just make me redose faster. I had read one girl said it gave her more of an opiate like energy boost, I guese I'll just have to try it for myself. One thing iv've noticed is if I don't take a larger dose everyday(like 16) and just take 8mg of a strip then i can 'feel my dose' the first few hours like "it's a damn good day" then that fades away and im just in a normal good mood.
 
Never did try the St. Johns wart thing.. Was soo suprised to see this thread while browising through! It was still when I was on my Pink cloud as they say,lol. Now I just take 4-8mg of it daily, throw in some benzo's when I can(makes it feel more like a full-agonist)plus I realy DO HAVE ANXIEY BAD,it's my 'trigger' to use..but I DO NOT reccomend using benzo's unluess prescribed them with the Bupe. I'm now dealing with being anxiety free then dealing with a BITCH of a case of rebound anxiety when I don't have them and just having to deal with it. No anxiety right now though =). 6mg of Bupe and 20mg of valium at work, then 20mg of valium after work. Supposedly the way to get it to act more of an full-agonist is to take doses of 1mg-3mg daily...
 
yeah no id get kicked out of the program for taking benzos unfortunately 8)

and yeah im sorry i know i have anxiety but i take vistiril for but still it doesnt help
 
So let me get this straight you drink wart remover? Isn't that shit for external use only? I see a lot of stomach aches from trying this I know I wouldn't ever drink that crap
 
I know this doesnt have to do with sjw yet it does

My method to get lifted on subs is take 900sjw before hand then wait an hour (i iv my subs) so if you dont try a different rout? anyways I put no more than 2mg in IV solution then add 50mg of diphenhydramine to it and slam it and wow its nice and if you dont IV anything well then (snort 3mg sub and pop a 50mg hydroxyzine if you have access if not diph then)

I still want my theory of popping subs to be tested with the sjw


btw I WOULDNT NOT RECOMMEND ANYONE TO BE SHOOTING BENADRYL LET ALONE SUBOXONE VERY DANGEROUS
ecspecially if you dont know what your doing but if your looking for a way this MAY be it
 
^ i really hope you're using a micron filter.
I know everyone has their preferences; but there is really very little point injecting buprenorphine.
Have you tried taking sub-milligram doses? Plenty of people seem to - paradoxically - get more better effects from less.

The idea, to put it in very simplistic layman's terms (the best i can offer, i'm afraid!) has something to do with bupe's (more active) metabolites having the chance to bind to your receptors, rather than being flooded out by bupe which has such a high binding affinity.

Very much off topic, but if you're going to experiment...there are people that swear by the "less is more" mantra.
YMMV, but seriously - I think the risks of shooting bupe greatly outweighs any benefit.
If you want to increase bioavailability, there is the trick of swishing a small amount of alcohol around your mouth before sublingual administration. I take it you are using suboxone pills (as you mentioned snorting) - insufflation also has better bioavailability for bupe than the sublingual ROA, and would be preferable - especially if you are using every day - to banging it.

I don't mean to have a go at you - I'm glad you added the disclaimer at the end of your post - but I think it's worth trying something other than what you describe, frankly. There are much safer ways of achieving what is more or less the same effect, and frankly I don't think IVing buprenorphine is worth the risk of serious complications

I understand the ritual of injecting is a major component of lots of people's habits, but suboxone can help you leave that part of it out of the equation, with its bupe's potency, duration and so on.

Please don't take this as a lecture - just a friendly suggestion.
You're gonna do what you're gonna do, but it would be remiss not to suggest safer practices and routes of administration.
 
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