SSRIs versus 5-HT-Prodrugs

[asecin]

would you consider taking an antidepressant or some of those dietery supplements containing 5-HTP (L-tryptophan) which helps achieve serotonin in more natural stable way.
yet there are many arguements about this and i would like to hear whats your take on the issue.

 

[asecin]

also just to add... i just read SSRIs affecting the 5-HT seratonin, but which exactly it never specifies.
there are many and just this not being clearly explained gives me doubts of SSRIs importance.

 

[Refluxer]

I don't think daily 5-HTP for prolonged periods is recommended, because it can affect the heart in a negative way. (Fibrosis I believe) Also, the mechanism of effect of SSRI's are more intricate than just raising serotonin. Actually it's not even raised concentrations of serotonin that directly causes an antidepressant effect.

 

[MattPsy]

SSRI's inhbit the reuptake of serotonin. This means that 5-HT released as per normal neurotransmission stays around longer, to activate the receptor more frequently before being taken up by the reuptake transporter.
I /think/ that SSRI's shouldn't raise your bloodstream 5-HT levels (and so, shouldn't pose a risk for cardiac fibrosis) because the 5-HT released into the synapse shouldn't make it into the bloodstream in that form. 5-HIAA (the metabolite of 5-HT after being processed by MAO), sure, but not 5-HT.

I'd rather take 5-HT prodrugs than SSRI's. I wouldn't want to be messing with my 5-HT reuptake everyday. Besides, blocking that transporter can make some of my favorite drugs stop working. And, well, I don't need to take them anyway.

 

[asecin]

MattPsy, so you rather take 5-HTP daily for depression than SSRIs ?
I wonder if 5-HTP is good for once in a while take.

There seem to be many other choices for depression than antidepressants and yet they are always prescribed for whatever reason.
Besides, there few 5-HT receptors and its not clear which and how well each antidepressent effects.

 

[MattPsy]

If I was depressed, yeah - i'd rather use 5-HTP.
Well no, actually I lie, i'd rather use CBT and a combination of transformative psychedelics and entactogens, as this is how I treated my own social anxiety and depression a year ago...
But in terms of societally accepted treatments, yeah, the 5-HTP.
Especially in adolescence, directly messing about with neurochemistry daily is not a good idea. At least 5-HTP is a indirect way of increasing 5-HT in the synapse. From what i've observed and what others have reported, SSRI's tend to make one emotionally flat rather than just not depressed - i'd try to avoid that, as i feel life is all about the up & downs - without those, how do we know how far up we are?

 

[Crimethink]

Keep in mind ascein that L-tryptophan competes with all the other amino acids in your body to get into the brain. If you're going to take l-Tryptophan you can make it more effective by taking it after a low-protein high-sugar meal. Insulin sweeps all the other competing amino acids away-this is why some depressed people get sugar & carb cravings-same thing when they go thru SSRI withdrawal. Even a glass of fruit juice will help.

You can avoid all this by taking 5-HTP which is one step closer to serotonin and doesn't compete to the same degree like l-tryptophan. You may find l-t or 5-HTP supress your appetite-or you want different, less carb loaded, less sweet foods because your brain isn't struggling to get more serotonin from your diet.

Don't take vitamin B6 at the same time as 5HTP wait a few hours-but make sure you take some, at least 30-50mg this help convert 5HTP to serotonin. If you find you are still depressed you can take carbidopa which will block breakdown of 5-HTP in the liver & blood so alot more gets to the brain.

L-Theanine & SAM-e (S-Adenosylmethionine) can help balance your brains serotonin & dopamine too. L-Theanine has an additional strong antianxiety effect if you need it. SAM-e is quite effective and more activating than L-tryptophan or 5-HTP.

MattPsy made a good point regarding normal phase 5HT neurotransmission with 5HT prodrugs. I looked up 5HT blood concentrations (50-200mcg/L) One way SSRI potency can be assessed is by measuring potency of uptake blockade to platlets platets ordinarily sweep up circulating 5HT with high affinity. It would seem that blocking the high affinity uptake of 5HT into platlets from blood might raise blood concetrations and I have seen abstracts about SSRI treatment to that effect however; << http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9530554&dopt=Abstract >> would suggest that SSRI treatment actually lowers blood serotonin.

 

[fastandbulbous]

Although I realize that getting tryptophan is difficult due to problems with it a few years ago, I'd say tryptophan is a much safer bet than 5HTP as the rate limiting step in 5HT biosynthesis is via tryptophan hydroxylase (serotonin is a competetive inhibitor so acts as a form of negative feedback), so using 5HTP means that you can end up with too much 5HT (and cardiac fibrosis)